Something that causes doubt

[IWantGod]

Some Jews became Christians. Some Christians became Jews. So what?

The point is, it’s not like being a Christian makes you not a Jew. Christianity is the fulfilment of the covenant; not a different religion. In reality the Jews where chosen to bring Christianity to the world, to bring the law of God into the world. The Jews prepared the way for Jesus Christ.

The fundamental difference between so called “Judaism” and Christianity today is the fact that they do not believe that Jesus is the messiah. But Christianity is fundamentally a Jewish religion, at least perhaps it’s more correct to say that Judaism is it’s source.

Christianity is Judaism fulfilled in Jesus Christ.

 

[tafan2]

If there are parts of it that are not for us, by definition, then who are they for?

Maybe for God?

 

[AlNg]

it’s not like being a Christian makes you not a Jew.

That is what you say. That is not what a rabbi told me. He said that once a Jew accepts Jesus, that person is no longer a Jew. He is a Christian.
Further I know a few Christian women who married Jews and before the marriage ceremony, they converted to Judaism and agreed to raise their children as Jews.

Christianity is Judaism fulfilled in Jesus Christ.

That is your belief. That is not the belief of the Jewish people today. Jewish people today do not accept Jesus as their Messiah.

 

[IWantGod]

That is what you say. That is not what a rabbi told me. He said that once a Jew accepts Jesus, that person is no longer a Jew. He is a Christian.

So what? Does it make it true because a rabbi said? Is Jesus not the lord our God because a Rabbi said so?

Further I know a few Christian women who married Jews and before the marriage ceremony, they converted to Judaism and agreed to raise their children as Jews.

Like i said, they do not believe that Jesus is the fulfilment of the covenant. They do not believe that he is the messiah.

 

[IWantGod]

That is your belief. That is not the belief of the Jewish people today. Jewish people today do not accept Jesus as their Messiah.

Many Jews did and do believe, and so did the apostles. Otherwise Christianity would not exist.

 

[AlNg]

Many Jews did and do believe, and so did the apostles

True and many Christians have converted to Judaism. In any case the Jews today do not accept Jesus. Of course, anyone today can convert one way or another.

 

[IWantGod]

In any case the Jews today do not accept Jesus.

You keep saying the Jews today as if there are no Jews that are Christian.

 

[AlNg]

they do not believe that Jesus is the fulfilment of the covenant. They do not believe that he is the messiah.

Yes. This is correct.

 

[AlNg]

You keep saying the Jews today as if there are no Jews that Christian.

As I said already, according to the Jewish teaching, once a Jew has converted to Christianity, he is no longer seen as a Jew according to the Jewish law. You can check on this yourself by asking any Orthodox Jewish rabbi.

 

[IWantGod]

according to the Jewish teaching

That’s according to a post-Jesus Jewish sect that has retained the teachings of Judaism and have split with Jesus Christ.

If you are a Christian then you must believe that Jesus Christ is the fulfilment of the covenant and therefore the fulfilment of Judaism and therefore is the one and only and true continuation of what God ordained. It doesn’t matter what a rabbi said or the terms and conditions they have for considering somebody a Jew.

 

[Freddy]

Freddy:

If there are parts of it that are not for us, by definition, then who are they for?

Maybe for God?

Then I guess He must need them for something. Which makes even less sense.

 

[AlNg]

It doesn’t matter what a rabbi said or the terms and conditions they have for considering somebody a Jew.

Oh but you are wrong. Really dead wrong.
A Catholic does not determine who is or who is not a Baptist. This is up to the Baptist authorities.
A Baptist does not determine who is and who is not a Catholic. This is up to the Catholic authorities.
A Muslim does not determine who is or who is not a Catholic. This is determined by the Catholic authorities. It is the Catholics who lay down the conditions for being a Catholic, not the Muslims.
A Catholic does not determine who is or who is not a Muslim. This is determined by the Muslim authorities and their laws.
A Jew does not determine who is or who is not a Catholic. This is up to the Catholic authorities.
Similarly, it is not up to Catholic bloggers here on CAF to determine who is and who is not a Jew. This is up to the Jewish authorities.
To confirm what I say is true, ask your local rabbi if when a Jew converts and accepts Jesus as the Messiah if that former Jew is still a Jew.
True, he might have been a Jew. But once he has accepted Jesus, he is no longer a Jew according to Jewish regulations confirmed by what I have been told by more than one Jewish rabbi.

 

[IWantGod]

True, he might have been a Jew. But once he has accepted Jesus,

So i guess Jesus is no-longer a Jew.

This conversations over.

 

[AlNg]

So i guess Jesus is no-longer a Jew.

I concede your point as to what was true 2000 years ago. It is recognized that Jesus was a Jew. You are right on that.
What i related applies to the world today and what I have been told are the Jewish regulations in effect today in the 21st century. Please check this yourself. Regulations change from time to time and at the time of the founding of Christianity 2000 years ago, things were in a state of flux and the regulations may not have been established to deal with this particular issue.
In any event it looks like the Jewish rabbis at that time (the Pharisees) did not accept Jesus as their Jewish Messiah.

This conversations over.

The conversation about whether or not Jesus was the Divine Son of God has been going on for two thousand years. I doubt it is now over. I suspect that if we could come back 300 years from now, in the year 2319, the conversation would still be going on.

 

[Gorgias]

God singled out the Jews among all nations to be His chosen people. Jesus came later. The Catholic Church believes that the Jewish covenant is still valid.

Fine. That means that the Jewish people aren’t the only “chosen people”. We all are.

The Jews do not accept Jesus.

So? That doesn’t mean that He doesn’t accept them.

It’s not that we can’t access it today. We will never be able to access it. Whatever is beyond the observable universe is forever beyond our reach.

Doesn’t mean that it will always be “beyond the observable.”

Again, this existence was either created for us or it wasn’t. If there are parts of it that are not for us, by definition, then who are they for?

Does it matter? Is your ego (or, alternately, are our egos as humans) so fragile that, if something isn’t created “for us”, we start doubting ourselves, our place in the universe, or our God?

It’s like building a huge house for your children and having a door at the end of an incredibly long corridor which is forever locked.

Except that this is not true. What you can say is that we can’t envision a way that humans might access that part of the universe. Nevertheless, that doesn’t imply that we never will.

Eventually the whole house except the rooms in which you live will dissapear as if they never existed.

According to some theories of physics. Not all, though.

Makes none to me.

Again: why does our happiness with God’s creation depend on whether something makes sense to any particular person? I mean… horse racing makes no sense to me; that doesn’t mean that the presence of horse racing makes me doubt God.

Maybe for God?

There we go! “For the greater glory of God”, as it were!

As I said already, according to the Jewish teaching, once a Jew has converted to Christianity, he is no longer seen as a Jew according to the Jewish law. You can check on this yourself by asking any Orthodox Jewish rabbi.

No: this is according to some Jewish rabbis. Take a look at the New Testament again – that wasn’t the case at the start of the Church.

Then I guess He must need them for something. Which makes even less sense.

Doesn’t mean He needs them. Maybe we need them, in order to make sense of the immensity of God.

 

[AlNg]

Take a look at the New Testament again

i am talking about today, not 2000 years ago.

 

[Freddy]

Freddy:

It’s like building a huge house for your children and having a door at the end of an incredibly long corridor which is forever locked.

Except that this is not true. What you can say is that we can’t envision a way that humans might access that part of the universe. Nevertheless, that doesn’t imply that we never will.

It does. It is physically impossible. Parts of the distant observable universe expand at such a rate that they eventually exceed the speed of light in relation to us (they are not moving at the speed of light - space is expanding so they don’t break any physical laws). So they will literally dissapear. The light that they emit is moving away from us faster than it is moving towards us.

So ever since the dawn of creation, the universe has been dissapearing from us. There will be literally less to see when you get to the end of this sentence then when you started it.

And my ego is fine. The universe doesn’t worry about me and the feeling is mutual. But God made us this earthly existence and gave us domain over it. That was the understanding. But we cannot have domain over that which effectively doesn’t exist.

I remember someone saying it’s all there for us to glory at the wonder of God’s creation. But we can’t wonder at it. It left before we were even at the point of being able to gaze at the stars.

It’s not for us. So who is it for?

 

[AlNg]

It is physically impossible. Parts of the distant observable universe expand at such a rate that they eventually exceed the speed of light in relation to us

And distant parts of the universe are 14 billion light years away from us.

It’s not for us. So who is it for?

Yes. It does seem like a whole lot of stuff and empty space to create while humans on planet earth are less than a tiny dot in it. Is there supposed to be some reason for the vastness of it all?

 

[Freddy]

Freddy:

It is physically impossible. Parts of the distant observable universe expand at such a rate that they eventually exceed the speed of light in relation to us

And distant parts of the universe are 14 billion light years away from us.

And even a lot of that has almost certainly ceased to exist. Stars have come and gone while their light is still in transit. We are literally looking at things that went out of existence before life started on earth.

 

[thistle]

many Christians have converted to Judaism

Really?? Total Christians in the world 2.2 billion. Total Jews in the world around 15 million.
Does not seem much conversion there!