Something to Consider: Please Stop with the Trump vs. Biden Threads

[SlavaIsusuChristu]

Is there a way to appeal to the mods to act on this? Maybe if the mods conducted a poll and allowed a 24 hour window for everyone to cast their vote, maybe they could see the majority of users on these forums would like to see the politics banned. Or at least moved to a relevant thread specifically for politics. But seeing these American political threads blowing up in places like “World news” has got to be an abuse of some sort.

 

[Irishmom2]

. I’m here for the faith, not American politics.

Then put the world news section on ignore like everyone else does that does not want to read talk of politics. The titles won’t even show up in your feed and you won’t have to make more threads about thIs anymore.

 

[pnewton]

Starting threads based on blogs and questionable news sources used to be a no-no. As it is, I spend the time to mute all threads that start with certain websites I have learned to be useful, or certain users I have learned to be not. That cuts out the worst 2/3’s of the political squabbling.

 

[Cruciferi]

This is your second thread on the subject.

Something to Consider: Please Stop with the Trump vs. Biden Threads Casual Discussion

Can we maybe tone it down on all the Trump vs Biden nonsense? I’m all for people having honest and intellectual debates about the two candidates. But sharing constant articles of every unproved allegation against either candidate does nothing for the users of this forum who are primarily here to learn about Catholicism. I’m not singling any one person out but just want to make a general shout out to everyone. I’ve lurked here a long time and had an account a long time ago. I’m interested in…

Instead of duplicating topics, I would suggest contacting Moderation if you see a problem. Otherwise, consider avoiding the World News forum.

 

[DeniseNY]

Slava na viki!

I would also recommend just avoiding it. IMO it’s bad most of the time, but downright toxic sometimes around elections.

 

[Motherwit]

There is no invincible ignorance at play here. People who justify voting Democrat even though they know that they are going to spread abortion, WILL be held accountable for the blood of the unborn on their judgement day. That’s a horrifying thought that clearly, people don’t think about.

It isn’t that black and white for every Catholic/Christian. While I absolutely obey the Church teaching on contraception, it is one of those issues that many Catholics ‘go with their conscience’ on. We know that most abortions are the result of failed contraception so a solution is making contraception cheap, available and efficient. That tack has resulted in there being fewer, in fact half as many abortions now than in the 80’s. Voting for a party that believes in contraception as the solution to unintended pregnancy is how many Christians view it.

 

[OraLabora]

Interesting, that’s the way one may see it, I will go with what the Vatican says.

That’s not a Vatican link. Ron Conte has no official Church standing. Those are his interpretations, not the Church’s.

A better choice would be what Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI says on the subject:

A Catholic would be guilty of formal cooperation in evil, and so unworthy to present himself for Holy Communion, if he were to deliberately vote for a candidate precisely because of the candidate’s permissive stand on abortion and/or euthanasia. When a Catholic does not share a candidate’s stand in favour of abortion and/or euthanasia, but votes for that candidate for other reasons, it is considered remote material cooperation, which can be permitted in the presence of proportionate reasons.

( Letter "Worthiness to Receive Holy Communion. General Principles. Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger, then Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, June 2004). My bold.

The Church does not define “proportionate reasons”. It is left to each voter’s prudential judgement.

 

[DeniseNY]

Slava na viki

 

[pnewton]

Can we maybe tone it down on all the Trump vs Biden nonsense?

That’s what I try to live by now. I don’t allow myself (or try not to) to get drawn into political stuff

People who justify voting Democrat even though they know that they are going to spread abortion, WILL be held accountable for the blood of the unborn on their judgement day. That’s a horrifying thought that clearly, people don’t think about.

Now I am confused. I cannot reconcile these three statements. You asked to turn down the rhetoric, then you turn it up to eleven? From Jesus:

Why do you notice the splinter in your brother’s eye, but do not perceive the wooden beam in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me remove that splinter from your eye,’ while the wooden beam is in your eye?

 

[Irishmom2]

Okay, yeah, I thought it was just me thinking that.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

People who justify voting Democrat even though they know that they are going to spread abortion, WILL be held accountable for the blood of the unborn on their judgement day. That’s a horrifying thought that clearly, people don’t think about.

People don’t think about it because they don’t agree with it. If you do, that’s your choice.

 

[SlavaIsusuChristu]

I don’t recall posting that one in the world news section, maybe a mod moved it?

 

[SlavaIsusuChristu]

I have my political positions the same as anyone else. That doesn’t mean I see value in debating them. Your taking Scriptures out of context here doesn’t really apply. The Church has said repeatedly that abortion is the pre-eminent issue of our time (meaning the most important). A Catholic can’t vote for a pro abortion politician just because they like their economic or foreign policy positions. Immigration, being another example, is not more important than abortion. This is what the Church has stated.

There have been a million threads already about is it possible to be Catholic and vote democrat?
Yes, but you wouldn’t be a faithful Catholic. One is Catholic by virtue of their Baptism and nothing else. Public witness to the faith is based on our actions.

 

[pnewton]

I have my political positions the same as anyone else. That doesn’t mean I see value in debating them. Your taking Scriptures out of context here doesn’t really apply.

My position is that it does apply. You speak of toning down political stuff, then come condemning all Democrats to Hell, or that is how it sounds. How else can this be taken:

And the democrats have made it very clear that they will promote abortion in all things, no Catholic can vote for them and not commit a grave sin. There is no invincible ignorance at play here. People who justify voting Democrat even though they know that they are going to spread abortion, WILL be held accountable for the blood of the unborn on their judgement day. That’s a horrifying thought that clearly, people don’t think about.

What other horrifying thought, besides Hell is there? I have read a lot of the rhetoric here that is too much, but yours has exceeded all I have read. I have never seen any presume to take judge souls, as you did. If that is not a beam compared to others’ motes, I do not know what is.

You have exceeded what all others have done in condemning others. You have exceeded what the Catholic Church teaches about voting Catholic, which is not everyone who votes Democrat is in mortal sin.

 

[SlavaIsusuChristu]

. . . we are supposed to be Catholic first. Too many are putting democratic beliefs above Catholic beliefs, even when they directly contradict one another.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

For somebody who purportedly doesn’t like American political threads, you sure do post about Democrats a lot.
I’ll leave you to it then…

 

[pnewton]

But the Catholic Church does teach that.

Post it twenty times. It is still false.I can post Church teaching on this.

https://www.usccb.org/issues-and-ac...ng-consciences-for-faithful-citizenship-title

A Catholic cannot vote for a candidate who favors a policy promoting an intrinsically evil act, such as abortion, euthanasia, assisted suicide, deliberately subjecting workers or the poor to subhuman living conditions, redefining marriage in ways that violate its essential meaning, or racist behavior, if the voter’s intent is to support that position.

Now, can you show where the Church has condemned Democrats to Hell?

I’m sorry if your personal or political beliefs don’t mix well with what the Catholic Church teaches,

You know nothing of me. This is so wrong. It is one of the worst, most judgmental statements directed at me I have seen here.

 

[JanR]

Lol are you being sarcastic? I can never tell online so I try not to make assumptions. To be fair, the overwhelming articles I have seen have been anti-trump and have been proven to be false accusations. I am pro Trump and will vote for him in November. But I don’t want to see Trump every other article every time I browse this forum. The fact that there are threads still going on about the Atlantic paper is just discouraging. It was already soundly refuted. There’s nothing left to discuss! Yet it keeps coming to the top because people keep posting on it. Too many of these political threads are just beating a dead horse. And respectfully, I simply don’t care about other people’s political opinions anymore than they would care about mine. So what’s the point of debating endlessly? The misinformed Catholics who think they can justify voting for a pro abortion platform will vote against the faith. Those who try to respect what the Church teaches will vote according to the Catholic faith. No one is going to change anyone’s minds by arguing about Trump vs Biden. Especially not on the internet. It’s just all so tiring lol. Frankly, I don’t know how people have the stamina for it (and I’m only 32).

Welcome to the forum!

Your post is a breath of fresh air. Yes, all of the political stuff gets tiring after awhile, and I’ve found that no amount of reasoning will budge a hard liner stuck like cement to his or her mindset. It’s an exercise in futility.

 

[Cathoholic]

SlavaIsusuChristu . . .

But if I have learned anything in the last 7 years of attempting apologetics online, it’s that I’m never going to change someone’s mind by debating them.

But there is more than just the person you are debating.

There are lurkers.

There are also interested readers on the forum thread.

Besides. It is OK not to change every mind. We are not perfect. (Sometimes MY mind gets changed here too.)

The way of correct thinking can carry over to other areas too.

That being said, if you are against public political debate to this degree in this setting, that is fine (for you to think that).

But know other people do not think that too.

God bless.

Cathoholic

 

[Victoria33]

We are always suppose to care, cradle to tomb, for life in all stages. This is not novel however the Church does definitely spell it out in Her own words.

USA and Canada, we are right there with China and North Korea for the right to life. Some might say and I’d pretty much agree with it, that Infanticide is promoted by some and that Planned Parenthood has a lot of control over one party.

Also, as the USA and Canada have done, funding abortions overseas, whatever poor area that is, is unacceptable to me. It’s not just laws within a country, it’s actively doing this in foreign countries.

Voting for Trudeau for example from my understanding, definitely means funding international abortion, some kid in whatever country will not see life that the Church seeks to protect.

I don’t see a need to even converse in a Catholic forum with those advocating for a party that promotes this intrinsic evil.