Son wants to be protestant

[joshua_b]

The time I spent outside the Church was necessary for me to understand what a treasure the Catholic faith is.

Remain steadfast in prayer, and let your son’s faith journey unwind as God wills it.

Agreed. Had I simply remained within the Church as a matter of habit, I would have never sought the answers that ultimately led me to the conclusion that the Catholic Church is the Church that Jesus gave us. I would have probably ended up just another cliched CINO, with no idea what all those crazy “extra biblical” teachings were all about.

 

[Allegra]

This is a difficult problem. I think that he will not appreciate Mass if he is forced to attend. I think I might suggest a compromise. If he attends Mass with the family and continues to meet his obligations as long as he is under your roof, perhaps you can agree to let him explore other religions? That’s the best I can come up with.

 

[joshua_b]

My son has been well catechized. He knows the truth. He refuses to engage in a rational discussion about it.

Assuming he has been properly catechized (and I DO believe you on this), this is a very tough one to speak on. Here are my opinions (which are free, and you get what you pay for).

I am assuming he has been confirmed, which means that he is ultimately responsible for his own formation at this point. However, as parents, we are still obligated to instruct our children in the faith. To not do so is mortal sin. He is also not a legal adult yet, and is very much a child, although I have no doubt that he feels quite differently about his stage of mental and emotional development.

My oldest daughter is 14, so I have great empathy for your dilemma. Were my daughter to come to me with this here is what I would do…

I would reemphasize why she should not leave the Catholic Church (fulness of Truth, Church Jesus established, apostolic succession, valid sacraments - including the Eucharist, mortal sin, etc. etc. etc.) I would then explain to her that she is still under my direct authority and that she would still be attending Mass every week because not only is it a mortal sin for her not to, but it is also a mortal sin for ME not to make her. Participation in Mass,including Holy Communion, is completely at her discretion.

I MAY be open to the possibility of her attending Protestant services, but it would not replace her weekly obligation, and I would be attending with her. She would also be made very aware before hand that she would not be participating in communion services or any other things that may lend to the appearance of scandal. (This may have the added benefit of opening the door to the rational discussion your son refuses to have. The sermon may be “good”, but could also be completely WRONG. If they have a communion service, it would be a good springboard for why it falls so woefully short of the actual Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of the Eucharist.)

Of course, my daughter will gladly give testimony to the fact that I am the meanest father alive, and only you know your son and how best to deal with him.

 

[MidnightSun12]

are you saying the only way to get into heaven is through the catholic church - because if you don’t know that for a fact why say it?

and i would try to compare and contrast the catholic church with the protestant church - i think the non-denominational churches are more appealing to younger kids because of the bands and singing and the more “lax” approach

We can say for a fact that it is easier to get to heaven through the Catholic church then through any christian denomination or other religion. I can say with 100% certainty that by leaving the catholic church a person is hurting their chances of salvation.

Now, if the majority of people on earth are going to heaven, then you may still have decent odds of going to heaven as a protestant (or even as an athiest). On the other hand, if the Saints and the fathers of the church are correct when they say that only a VERY slim number of people will actually go to heaven and that even the majority of Catholics will not reach salvation, what would a person’s odds be if they aren’t using the sacrament of reconciliation, the eucharist, and the moral infallibility of the Catholic church as their spiritual armor? My question to a person who is looking to a Protestant denomination is: why take the chance?

 

[joshua_b]

are you saying the only way to get into heaven is through the catholic church - because if you don’t know that for a fact why say it?

Yes, he is. It is only through the Church that Jesus established while on earth that anyone achieves salvation (that would be the Catholic Church).

It is possible for someone to attain salvation without being consciously and visibly aligned with that Church in this lifetime, but being in that position makes things a whole lot more complicated.

 

[dad_o_six]

But then, you might venture to guess that there is a 11/12 probability that your son is not receiving valid sacraments in the modernist church. Therefore, without Sanctifying Grace, he has no reason to believe that he needs to stay in the Catholic faith and tradition.

If 11/12 young people do not remain in the Church, then my 11/12 hypothesis (my own derivation from the limited clues Rome has allowed to be revealed about the third secret) seems to hold. Indeed, it seems to me that about this percentage of young people actually remain Catholic in the modern church.

Though no total safeguard against leaving the church, the traditionalist movement seems to have a much higher percentage of young people who remain.

 

[joshua_b]

But then, you might venture to guess that there is a 11/12 probability that your son is not receiving valid sacraments in the modernist church. Therefore, without Sanctifying Grace, he has no reason to believe that he needs to stay in the Catholic faith and tradition.

.

On what basis do you make this statement?

 

[gigi4747]

“there is a 11/12 probability that your son is not receiving valid sacraments in the modernist church”

My parish is EF/OF and while I believe that the OF Mass does lend itself to liturgical abuses to a greater extent than the EF, the OF Mass, when properly offered, is a valid Mass. In fact, if you are sspx, you’re the one in schism and may be assisting in invalid Masses.

 

[theamari]

Don’t forget that God has infinite mercy, and it is His decision, not ours, who goes to heaven and who doesn’t. Can you imagine a loving father turning away a child who did his best to please Him, even though he was mistaken about the way it was supposed to be done? I tell my children and my CCD students to NEVER condemn someone in their hearts, not even someone who has done much evil in their lives, like Hitler or Osama Ben Laden, because God’s mercy is so great that even they could have reached heaven if they made a sincere act of contrition before they died.

I have consecrated my children to the Immaculate Heart of Mary, and I have confidence that she will ultimately draw them to heaven no matter what path they choose during their lives. My question is only about what I should do now, as a Catholic parent of an under-age child who wants to attend protestant services instead of Mass. Thank you to all those who have offered suggestions and prayers, and if you want to discuss other topics, please do so in a different thread.

 

[theamari]

By the way, does anyone know how to contact a moderator to ask them to move this thread to the Parenting section? I didn’t realize until now that I posted this in the wrong forum.

 

[John_of_Patmos]

Remain steadfast in prayer, and let your son’s faith journey unwind as God wills it.

No. Don’t let him leave the Church.

 

[joshua_b]

My question is only about what I should do now, as a Catholic parent of an under-age child who wants to attend protestant services instead of Mass. Thank you to all those who have offered suggestions and prayers, and if you want to discuss other topics, please do so in a different thread.

I offered my thoughts already, but want to revisit it just to emphasize once again, it is our moral duty to instill the faith in our children. I am not an authority on anything, so I don’t know what your level of responsibility would be for a confirmed, and properly catechized teenager; I do know that failing to instill the faith in your child is a mortal sin.

When my kids find me in an especially disagreeable mood on Sunday, and ask the “why do we HAVE to go to church?” question, they have been answered with (exactly as I told you) “because not only is it a sin for YOU not to go, it is a sin for ME not to make you go, and I am not going to hell over YOU simply because YOU don’t want to go to church”.

And, of course, when all else fails…pray.

 

[Johwo84]

I think it’s great that we have a lot of former Protestants who have returned to the church affiliated with Catholic Answers.

While I realize that recordings don’t really come up to the mark of live, enthusiastic preaching, I think that the apologetics of Tim Staples are particularly charismatic and they specifically refute the heresies of Protestantism. Maybe he might be interested in those.

I agree with other posters that you should be actively involved in attempting to prevent his departure from the Church, but never forget the importance of prayer.

Meg, I have borne a long time with thy husband; I have reasoned and argued with him in these points of religion, and still given to him my poor fatherly counsel, but I perceive none of all this able to call him home; and therefore, Meg, I will no longer dispute with him, but will clean give him over and get me to God and pray for him. - St. Thomas More

(spoiler: William Roper returned to the Church and attributed his conversion to St. Thomas’ prayers )

 

[theamari]

I offered my thoughts already, but want to revisit it just to emphasize once again, it is our moral duty to instill the faith in our children. I am not an authority on anything, so I don’t know what your level of responsibility would be for a confirmed, and properly catechized teenager; I do know that failing to instill the faith in your child is a mortal sin.

When my kids find me in an especially disagreeable mood on Sunday, and ask the “why do we HAVE to go to church?” question, they have been answered with (exactly as I told you) “because not only is it a sin for YOU not to go, it is a sin for ME not to make you go, and I am not going to hell over YOU simply because YOU don’t want to go to church”.

And, of course, when all else fails…pray.

Thank you for your thoughts on this, Joshua. I have told him that it is a mortal sin for him to miss Mass, and for him to worship in a non-Catholic church, and that it would be a mortal sin for me to cooperate in those sins. However, I cannot physically make him go to Mass. I do tell him that it is expected, and I could punish him for not going, but I’m not sure that would be helpful. He’s already incurring the worst punishment possible–the loss of grace in his soul. What more can I add to that?

I am working on getting him to talk to me about his reasons for wanting to leave the Catholic Church, but not getting very far. The only reasons he has given are that he had no choice in being confirmed, which is not true, since he had to write a letter explaining why he wanted to be confirmed. I prepared him myself, and if he had had any hesitation about being Catholic, I would have made him wait. But when I try to discuss it with him he refuses, saying I didn’t listen to him before. (I think he means because I countered his arguments with facts.) So right now I don’t think he would be receptive to any Catholic apologetics, no matter how charismatic the speaker. I will continue to pray, and look for an opportunity to present something like that to him.

 

[ChrisCath]

My 15yo son has informed me that Catholicism doesn’t “do it” for him and he wants to worship in a protestant church instead. We went to a funeral in a non-denomenational church, and he really liked the preaching and singing. I suggested that we look for a more charismatic Catholic Mass, but he wasn’t interested. He says if I don’t allow him to worship in a protestant church, I’m making him lose his faith. What is my responsibility as a Catholic parent in a situation like this?

Too many look at religion selfishly, in terms of “what am I getting out of it”.
Try something this on him:

“The gravest obligation requires the acceptance and practice, not of the religion which one may choose, but of that which God prescribes and which is known by certain and indubitable marks to be the only true one.”

It is by Pope Leo XIII in his Encyclical Immortale Dei (November 1, 1885) but that is unimportant compared to the larger point.

 

[guanophore]

My son has been well catechized. He knows the truth. He refuses to engage in a rational discussion about it.

He probably needs an emotional connection with Christ and his faith. Send him to world youth day!

It is possible that, by allowing him to explore other ecclesial communities, you will find he is ready and able to engage in a rational discussion. If he wishes to wander about, it might be better to do this while he is still under your roof, so that you do have an opportunity to dialogue with him about his experiences. Otherwise, he will just stray off later when you don’t have as much contact and (name removed by moderator)ut.

I left at 15 also, and sojourned in protestant communities for the better part of 20 years before I found my way back. Had my parents been stubborn with me, I don’t think it would have helped any. Part of adolsecent development is to rebel against the structures in which one was reared. It is part of what kids need to do to find themselves. If, as you say, he is well catechized, then you have trained up your child in the way he should go, and when he is old, he will not depart from it.

 

[dad_o_six]

Joshua,
With apologies for original poster if I’m a bit off topic (though I really do think this is relevant) and with apologies to Joshua for lateness of reply.

My references aren’t very good, mostly poor recollection, but generally take two forms: 1. A quote from then-Cardinal Ratzinger and a forgotten reference to the book of Revelation, which I rather creatively interpreted. 2. My own two eyeballs and common-sense.

Cardinal Ratzinger made a comment that he had read the third secret of Fatima and mentioned that it was all in the scripture anyway. He then made a reference to a passage in Revelations, which to my recollection was something about Mary saving the world in the end, but 11 out of 12 stars being fallen. I took this to be a contrast between the 1 in 12 apostles who was fallen in Christ’s time, whereas in the end times 11 out of 12 apostles (i.e. priests or bishops) would be corrupt. It does seem rather clear that the third secret of Fatima is something about a crisis within the church, which makes sense considering the suppression of the third secret.

The common sense observation that I am making is that, it seems to me, 11 out of 12 youths today fall away from the Catholic church. Perhaps the original poster is lucky because at least his son is falling toward some type of Christian faith. Still, it’s tragic. Without judging on the validity of any particular parish or priest or form of Mass, it does seem logical to observe that something must be missing. Somehow, the Grace of the Sacraments is not being transmitted.

I strongly suspect that the usual answers will not be sufficient. Communitarianism, volunteerism, etc.–not the answers.

 

[theamari]

Joshua,
The common sense observation that I am making is that, it seems to me, 11 out of 12 youths today fall away from the Catholic church. Perhaps the original poster is lucky because at least his son is falling toward some type of Christian faith. Still, it’s tragic. Without judging on the validity of any particular parish or priest or form of Mass, it does seem logical to observe that something must be missing. Somehow, the Grace of the Sacraments is not being transmitted.

I strongly suspect that the usual answers will not be sufficient. Communitarianism, volunteerism, etc.–not the answers.

I agree that something is missing. Years of bad catechesis have produced parents who do not know what it means to be Catholic and are not teaching their children the faith. I teach CCD to middle-school kids. When CCD is not in session, many of their parents do not take them to Mass, do not pray with them, and do not live as Catholics. Many of the parents cannot receive the sacraments because they are not married in the Church. I really don’t know why they even bother with signing their kids up for CCD. 7 of my 25 students are going to fail my class because they do not know the basic prayers and do not make any effort to learn about their faith. Last week I had a meeting with the parents of one of failing students, in which they blamed me for their son’s failure. Of those who do pass the course, few will remember what they have learned by next fall because it is not reinforced at home.

Our parish now requires the parents of CCD kids to go to classes themselves to learn about their faith, and it requires the children to attend Mass as part of their CCD class. The pastor told us that this program is beginning to produce results–some of the children have convinced their parents to start going to Mass themselves and to take classes to be confirmed or to get married in the Church. It will take a long time to reverse the damage done in the past, but it is a start.

 

[thetruth0flife]

I think that as a parent you should let your son have his spiritual freedom in order so that your point is proven: he is in the wrong place.

Other than that just assure that he doesn’t get involved with bad influences that may be around in other churches that aren’t Catholic. Let him experiment with the religion and if he doesn’t find it suitable then lets just have the expectancy that he will return back to the real true faith in Christ. Blessings.

 

[couponfit]

Thank you for that link, Anthony. That is wonderful!

Thank you all for your responses. My son was an altar server for years, and this change came out of the blue. I have tried to interest him in going to a Lifeteen Mass, but he will not. I’m hoping he is just going through a rebellious phase. Thank you all especially for your prayers!

Well, he’s talking to you. At this point the main plan should be to maintain your faith, include his father if this is an option, and of course, listen to him. I think 99% of this needs to be about listening and then you can serve as a witness in faith and love.