Son's Secular Wedding

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kage_ar said:
As a Catholic, the son in question is bound by the Catholic laws of marriage. Walking out of Confirmation class at 17 no more removes this citizenship than walking out of a 11th grade Civics class removes ones US Citizenship.

We parents know that the only thing worse than seeing our child in physical danger is to see that child in mortal danger. This man’s son is planning a big public grave sin. Any Catholic parent would be in anguish. To call this scruples is to reveal your ignorance of the Catholic Faith.

Prayers for the OP. That he may get through this hellish day.
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I respectfully disagree. The son did not go through with his confirmation and this was his choice - he made a public display then that he did not want to be a part of the CC at that time. So he’s held to CC laws b/c he was baptized at 2 months old? No…IMO he made the choice NOT to join the church, but that doesn’t mean the mother shouldn’t pray for his return one day, and she’ll have no chance to bring him and his wife and their future kids to God by dividing the family by not attending the wedding.

Also, “Hellish day”? Now I am even offended. Did the OP say this was a hellish day? No, so what gives you the right? :confused:
 
janman55 said:
I am going to organize a group prayer with my family before my son’s wedding at the hotel before we go to the event. I think of asking for God’s blessing upon them, help them grow in love of each other as well as love of God. This feels like something I should be asking the Blessed Mother for help. Does anybody have any ideas?
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Your plan to organize a group prayer is really lovely. I am certain that calling on the Blessed Mother’s intercession would be most efficacious. Maybe a novena to St. Joseph - the perfect example of family loyalty and loyalty to God? And also St. Monica. She certainly knew the pain of WAITING for her son to come home to God.

Blessings on you, your son and your family.
 
Pinkyyy said:
I respectfully disagree. The son did not go through with his confirmation and this was his choice - he made a public display then that he did not want to be a part of the CC at that time. So he’s held to CC laws b/c he was baptized at 2 months old? No…IMO he made the choice NOT to join the church, but that doesn’t mean the mother shouldn’t pray for his return one day, and she’ll have no chance to bring him and his wife and their future kids to God by dividing the family by not attending the wedding.

Also, “Hellish day”? Now I am even offended. Did the OP say this was a hellish day? No, so what gives you the right? :confused:
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It might be advisable to do some research. If one is baptized Catholic, one is Catholic. There is one way to leave the Catholic Church, it is a formal process and has been defined by the Church. If you will research “formal defection from the Catholic Church” you will learn the details of that process.

And, yes, for this parent to watch someone make such a grave decision would be hellish.
 
It strikes me that the OP chose to state this is a secular wedding for a reason. The OP does not seem to be just ducky happy about this son’s decision.

For those who say that they cannot believe someone would stay away from “your own child’s wedding”… two things. First, we should have had this discussion with our children many times of the years. Part of teaching them the Faith is teaching them what God’s laws are about marriage. We should have let our children see that we love God more than anything, and that our children have respect for our Faith. Pray our children have the kind of respect for the Faith of their parents that they could say “mom and dad, I know that my decision is against what you believe, I still love you but could not ask you to be party to something that is in opposition to your faith. Please pray for me.”

Second, would it be easy to stay away - well, is any kind of discipline easy? For those parents who spank, was it easy to make your child cry? Sometimes, being a parent is really hard. Being a Catholic parent is even harder.

Back to the OP. Prayer is the most important thing you can do on such a day. May the Holy Spirit draw your son back to God.
 
Taking that sentiment then. . .do you turn down wedding invitations to Jewish and/or Pagan type of weddings because they stand in opposition to your faith?

All the son is asking the mother to do is to be there. It’s an invitation. She’s not participating in the sacrament or “non-sacrament” if you will.

The invitation probably reads something like, “Wedding. June 1rst. Be there.”

It’s not an invitation to pray for him. It’s an invitation to be there and bear witness to a pledge and vow he is making to someone he loves.

Ding! Ding! Ding! Wake up call. . .it’s not about the mother. It’s about the happy couple.

I am relieved I am not the only one who is thinking this way. . .
 
Scanner said:
Taking that sentiment then. . .do you turn down wedding invitations to Jewish and/or Pagan type of weddings because they stand in opposition to your faith?
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If the people getting married are Catholics, and they are getting married in the Catholic Church OR have secured a dispensation, yep, I’ll go to the wedding because it is presumed to be valid.

If the people getting married are not Catholic, and are free to marry, then I would attend the wedding as it is presumed to be valid.

Why is it so difficult to understand that Catholics have to get married the way the Catholic Church says and that many of us choose to follow Her in these things? Catholics marry in the church or get a dispensation. This applies to Catholics.

It is actually very simple.
 
Here are a CAF “Ask An Apologist” I found on Catholics entering into civil and non-Catholic marriages:

http://forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=167154

The Church does not explicitly forbid Catholics from attending presumptively-invalid marriages. Catholics must use their own prudential judgment in making the decision, keeping in mind the need to uphold the Catholic understanding of the sanctity of marriage. One rule of thumb that may be helpful in making such decisions might be to ask yourself if you believe the couple is doing the best that they can to act honorably and according to the truth that they have. So, for example, you might decide to attend the presumptively-invalid wedding of a couple who is expecting a child; but decline to attend the presumptively-invalid wedding of a couple who have engaged in adultery and destroyed previous marriages and families.

Now then, the OP asked
janman55 said:
I am going to organize a group prayer with my family before my son’s wedding at the hotel before we go to the event. I think of asking for God’s blessing upon them, help them grow in love of each other as well as love of God. This feels like something I should be asking the Blessed Mother for help. Does anybody have any ideas?
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Yes. I would start a novena before this event, any of your choice, although the 30 Day Novena to Our Lady of Good Success might be a good pick. I would ask for decades of the rosary from family and good freinds. I would certainly, if you feel up to it, pray for your son and his presumptive bride before the ceremony in a hotel. With all that prayer, things should work out the way God intends.

If wrestlers and rock stars can pray before simply going on stage to perform, a mother can certainly organize her family in a place and form a prayer group to pray for her son before he marries outside the Church at a hotel.
 
lizaanne said:
:eek: Forget your scruples for one day???!!! What kind of advice is this?

I would rather die first than “forget my scruples”!!!

Wow - I’m so totally blown away by this suggestion that I actually can’t think of anything to say! —a first, I know. :rolleyes:

Wow. Just wow. :eek:

~Liza
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If there was an Academy Award for “Best Display of Drama on the Internet,” you’d be the clear winner. :rolleyes:
 
**I sympathize with your situation. It is so hard for a parent to stand back and watch their child make a huge mistake, especially one that is also an offense to God.

But I agree that the parents should attend. I am sure the son is very clear on his parents’ disapproval. I think the prayer is a great idea (especially the novena suggestion) but I would ask you to take it one step further. Put your thought and prayers in a letter and give it to the couple as a wedding gift. Ask that the Holy Spirit speak through you so that your words are full of love and charity.

Then one day when, hopefully, they see the error of their ways and take the steps to rectify their situation they will thank you for loving them in spite of how much they were hurting you at the time.**
 
Feanaro_s_Wife said:
**But I agree that the parents should attend. I am sure the son is very clear on his parents’ disapproval. I think the prayer is a great idea (especially the novena suggestion) but I would ask you to take it one step further. Put your thought and prayers in a letter and give it to the couple as a wedding gift. Ask that the Holy Spirit speak through you so that your words are full of love and charity. **
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A spiritual bouquet it is called. When I was a girl, once upon a time, we used to make them for family and friends all the time. Great idea!
 
kage_ar said:
If the people getting married are Catholics, and they are getting married in the Catholic Church OR have secured a dispensation, yep, I’ll go to the wedding because it is presumed to be valid.

If the people getting married are not Catholic, and are free to marry, then I would attend the wedding as it is presumed to be valid.

Why is it so difficult to understand that Catholics have to get married the way the Catholic Church says and that many of us choose to follow Her in these things? Catholics marry in the church or get a dispensation. This applies to Catholics.

It is actually very simple.
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Actually it’s not that simple. I do not understand why a Catholic HAS to be married in the church or it’s not valid. I mean, who is the CC to say if it’s valid or not? I believe if a CC member gets married in another church or wherever, it may very well be valid in God’s eyes. Just because the CC says it does not mean that’s what God believes or accepts. I have a VERY hard time seeing how the CC can give an “annulment” to a man, for example, who was married to a protestant woman for 20 years and 5 kids later, just because he was “sick of being married to her and wanted something/someone new”. Well, it wasn’t in OUR church, well you’re in luck…

Sorry, don’t believe that. If he has intent to be with this person for life, then I believe the marriage is Valid even if it’s not in the CC.

Even the apologist that was posted called it a “presumptively-invalid wedding”

I see why you think this is “hellish” but I don’t think that’s right to say the poster is thinking. I never saw here say it was “hellish”
 
Pinkyyy said:
Actually it’s not that simple. I do not understand why a Catholic HAS to be married in the church or it’s not valid. I mean, who is the CC to say if it’s valid or not? I believe if a CC member gets married in another church or wherever, it may very well be valid in God’s eyes. Just because the CC says it does not mean that’s what God believes or accepts. I have a VERY hard time seeing how the CC can give an “annulment” to a man, for example, who was married to a protestant woman for 20 years and 5 kids later, just because he was “sick of being married to her and wanted something/someone new”. Well, it wasn’t in OUR church, well you’re in luck…

Sorry, don’t believe that. If he has intent to be with this person for life, then I believe the marriage is Valid even if it’s not in the CC.

Even the apologist that was posted called it a “presumptively-invalid wedding”

I see why you think this is “hellish” but I don’t think that’s right to say the poster is thinking. I never saw here say it was “hellish”
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Please start a new thread and some folks will be happy to help you learn about marriage in the Catholic Church.

BTW “presumptively-invalid wedding” means that we can presume it will NOT be valid.
 
Even though I know at least one of my parents has been a poster here, allow me to say I am eternally grateful they aren’t as uptight as some of you guys (if, ah, not by much sometimes).

I never formally defected from the Church – why should I, since I do not believe it has any kind of authority, spiritual, legal, moral, or otherwise, over me? It’s not like it’s going to get me off all these ‘please give us money’ mailing lists (nota bene: Inside the Vatican apparently sells its address list).

Our wedding was secular, and my parents, for five hours, put aside their issues with my having left the faith and came. Even better, for those five hours, they forgot their differences with each other, their long separation, their fights, arguments, and histrionics, their drawn-out court battles, everything, to be there for us, to drink a little, talk a little, and enjoy the moment.

Growing up in that family was not exactly easy for me, and I think I’ll have my own demons to face for the rest of my life as a result – but never have I been more proud to be my parents’ child than then.

Go to the wedding, do your praying – the letter bit is a nice idea, actually (though my father just told me ‘whenever you come back and get it recognized in the Church, let me know and I’ll show up’ 😃 ). I wouldn’t go so far as to say ‘forget your scruples’, but remember that some things are more important than the letter of the law. This is one of those things.
 
Mirdath said:
Even though I know at least one of my parents has been a poster here, allow me to say I am eternally grateful they aren’t as uptight as some of you guys (if, ah, not by much sometimes).

I never formally defected from the Church – why should I, since I do not believe it has any kind of authority, spiritual, legal, moral, or otherwise, over me? It’s not like it’s going to get me off all these ‘please give us money’ mailing lists (nota bene: Inside the Vatican apparently sells its address list).

Our wedding was secular, and my parents, for five hours, put aside their issues with my having left the faith and came. Even better, for those five hours, they forgot their differences with each other, their long separation, their fights, arguments, and histrionics, their drawn-out court battles, everything, to be there for us, to drink a little, talk a little, and enjoy the moment.

Growing up in that family was not exactly easy for me, and I think I’ll have my own demons to face for the rest of my life as a result – but never have I been more proud to be my parents’ child than then.

Go to the wedding, do your praying – the letter bit is a nice idea, actually (though my father just told me ‘whenever you come back and get it recognized in the Church, let me know and I’ll show up’ 😃 ). I wouldn’t go so far as to say ‘forget your scruples’, but remember that some things are more important than the letter of the law. This is one of those things.
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Since I believe this is a first, I had to say I AGREE WITH YOU.

And your story was very touching.😉
 
I understand both ends of the spectrum in the responses I have received. I want to thank all of you. I am heart broken, but I have faith and hope in the Lord. I know that if I break communication with him over this I have thrown in the towel. I truly believe that this may be an opportunity to regain my son and a daughter-in-law for the Church in the process. If you knew all the parties involved and witnessed the things I have you would probably feel the same sense of hope that I do.

So, I am going to go but I am going to organize a spiritual bouquet as one of you put it. I’m going to do a special devotion to St Rita which I do from time to time already. I was curious what others may have done or would suggest. God Bless you all and I appreciate your prayers for my son and daughter-in-law to be.
 
"Our wedding was secular, and my parents, for five hours, put aside their issues with my having left the faith and came. Even better, for those five hours, they forgot their differences with each other, their long separation, their fights, arguments, and histrionics, their drawn-out court battles, everything, to be there for us, to drink a little, talk a little, and enjoy the moment.

Growing up in that family was not exactly easy for me, and I think I’ll have my own demons to face for the rest of my life as a result – but never have I been more proud to be my parents’ child than then.

Go to the wedding, do your praying – the letter bit is a nice idea, actually (though my father just told me ‘whenever you come back and get it recognized in the Church, let me know and I’ll show up’ ). I wouldn’t go so far as to say ‘forget your scruples’, but remember that some things are more important than the letter of the law. This is one of those things."

I think this is the best answer to your question in the thread. Even though I am studying Law, I think it is important to keep law in perspective. The Bible does say where true love is, God is present. The writer of that scripture also says, not too far away, that whoever hates their brother in the heart, lacks the prescence of God. I would be gravely insulted if one or both of my parents refused to attend a key event (such as a wedding, being admitted to the bar, graduating from university) for any unreasonable ground, and I would include a fanatical religious belief one of those grounds. Such an insult would hurt my relationship with my spouse and my parents, and also make me look very negatively upon the religion they believed in.

You should consider that your actions influence how others will judge you and your beliefs. If you act in a harsh, uncharitable way to a relative who does not follow a certain law to the letter, that will reflect on you and your faith, and people will see that faith as hard, legalistic, cold and uncharitable. But if you are warm, compassionate, loving, and forgiving, without easily changing convictions, that is a far better way to act out a belief or faith. Even if you never bring someone around to your point of view, you will do much better that way than trying to force someone to act against the free exercise of their conscience in any matter.
 
lizaanne said:
If you are so deeply concerned, how do you show this by going to celebrate it? Doesn’t that just confirm you acceptance of his decision?
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Because by being open and loving she is showing Christ’s love and leaving an opening in which her son and future daughter-in-law will come back to the church. By shunning their marriage she would just drive a wedge into the relationship that might never be mended.

When our children are adults, they have the right to make their own choices and mistakes and/or successes. He’s not doing anything illegal so I don’t see a problem with her being present for her son’s marriage. Hopefully she’ll be there when he returns to the church and gets the marriage validated 😃
 
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