(rolleyes) because you are so frustated because I choose not to open your link. I thought you and your friend’s use of rollyeyes was cute so I thought I would try it.We believe in One God,the Father Almighty,maker of heaven and earth and of all things visible and invisible. And in one Lord,Jesus Christ,the only begotten Son of God,and born of the Father before all ages. God of God, light of light,true God of true God. Begotten not made,consubstatial to the Father,by whom all things were made. Who for us men and for our salvationcame down from heaven. And was incarnate of the Holy Ghost and of the Virgin Mary and was made man;was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate,suffered and was buried;and the third day rose again according to the scriptures. And ascended into heaven,sits at the right hand of the Father and shall come again with glory to judge the living and the dead,of whose kingdom there shall be no end.And I believe in the Holy Ghost, the Lord and Giver of life,who proceeds from the Father and the Son,who together with the Father and the Son is to be adorded and glorified, who spoke by the Prophets. And one holy,catholic and apostolic Church. We confess one Baptism for the remission of sins. And we look for the resurrection of the dead and the life of the world to come. Amen
Are you saying there are not enough Catholics represented on this blog that can tell me what Catholics believe about the trinity without opening a link?
So Mormons not only believe in at least two gods, but two different kinds of gods.
Thank you!We believe in One God,the Father Almighty,maker of heaven and earth and of all things visible and invisible. And in one Lord,Jesus Christ,the only begotten Son of God,and born of the Father before all ages. God of God, light of light,true God of true God. Begotten not made,consubstatial to the Father,by whom all things were made. Who for us men and for our salvationcame down from heaven. And was incarnate of the Holy Ghost and of the Virgin Mary and was made man;was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate,suffered and was buried;and the third day rose again according to the scriptures. And ascended into heaven,sits at the right hand of the Father and shall come again with glory to judge the living and the dead,of whose kingdom there shall be no end.And I believe in the Holy Ghost, the Lord and Giver of life,who proceeds from the Father and the Son,who together with the Father and the Son is to be adorded and glorified, who spoke by the Prophets. And one holy,catholic and apostolic Church. We confess one Baptism for the remission of sins. And we look for the resurrection of the dead and the life of the world to come. Amen
They attempt to get around the polytheism label by claiming that they only worship Heavenly Father. Of course, they will then say that they do actually worship Jesus Christ as well, but in a different way. Not sure what they think of the Holy Spirit, but regardless of who and how they worship, by their own definition, there is no getting around the fact that they believe in many gods whether they worship them all or not. It is polytheistic through and through.
I just do not get it with Mormons? God the Father and God the Son are NOT the substance. And yet they do not worship Jesus? And yet one can be a god on somewhere else? :ehh:
By their own definition, Mormons are not polytheistic:
mtolympus:How do you deal with the other gods, example “the God we worship” as if there are more “god(s)” to be had? Houston, we have a problem… See OT where God says: “I know of no other” - god that is.
Why would the LDS question the Schema of the Jews? EXPLAIN the different meaning of the Hebrew words: echad & yachid - >both mean “one”. or does anyone speak Hebrew @ HQ especially for the last 175 years.
Do you believe in the Old Testament/Covenant & New Testament/Covenant as God has preserved it for centuries long before some back water, American teen-ager & assoc’s got hands on it? LDS parrot back the line re: the Bible “insofar as it is translated correctly”, explain what scholarship is involved in that gem. Who in your world determines HOW the scriptures are correctly translated and what are their credentials for doing so?
Here’s a thought: IF Jesus is YOUR brother AND Jesus & Satan are “brothers”, then Satan MUST be YOUR BROTHER!Well, Satan is not MY brother; He’s a created, angelic, fallen individual being without a human body but with a soul that is eternal but NOT DIVINE in NATURE.
I assume all of this has been dumped on the trusting & unsuspecting due to a distinct, complete lack of scholarship.
Lochias` use of them was a reaction to your refusal to seek the truth of what we believe.
To repeat most of post #38…which you presumably chose to ignore:
The Trinity is Be-ing, Know-ing, Lov-ing.Thats dead true when were talking about the physical/material realm, but with God, were talking about spirit ONLY. [A reply to your analogy of three grapes at post #33.] The Divine Essence is spirit "only" ie no material makeup, and therefore doesnt occupy space.
The same applies to the angels, good and fallen, and to the immortal human soul.
No. [A reply to your claim that we believe in 3 Gods.]
The Father is spirit and knows HImself totally in eternity. He possesses the totality of the Godhead. Everything that the Father is is contained in His Self-knowledge. The Father`s Self-knowledge is the Son. Because of the last sentence plus 1, the Son possesses the totality of the Godhead. The Son is generated by the Father in eternity.
Theres total, eternal Self-giving Love from the Father to the Son; and theres total, eternal Self-giving Love from the Son to the Father. Everything that the Father is and everything that the Son is is in that Love. That Love is the Holy Spirit; and because of the preceding sentence, He possesses the totality of the Godhead.
Keep in mind that the physical/material is NOT involved. We`re not trying to say that three individuals occupy the same physical space…or anything remotely like that. The Incarnation is a separate topic.
No one Person (also called “Principle”) can exist without the other Two, and no Two can exist without the other One.
There`s one divine Will. Total unity.
This will help to explain the Mystery of the Blessed Trinity:
www.katapi.org.uk/TandS/Contents.html
[This leads to a far deeper “analysis” which would have taken up far too many posts, plus a few days of laborious typing.]
***Its hard-going, but, as far as it goes, its the Truth; and it`s the Truth that matters. ***
Saint Thomas Aquinas went well into it.
The fact that the Mystery can never be fully understood doesn`t give anyone the right to water it down to make his concept of God more palatable. That does violence to the Truth, and leads deeper into heresy.
They cant be infinite and eternal AND created. [A reply to your statement that Theyre infinite and eterrnal.]
s image. Man is created in Gods image. For a start, the human soul is spirit only, and is intellect and will. An animal soul doesn`t have those.1 Timothy warns of this: myths, speculations that are not the plan of God and meaningless talk.
Of course, and who could possibly consider that as a self-serving statement? “We believe that Heavenly Father is God. We believe that Jesus is God, and we believe that the Holy Spirit is God, and that they are distinct and separate divine beings, and we believe that we will become gods as well, just like our Heavenly Father, but we only believe in one God.” Do I have that about right?
Does this really make sense to you? I don’t see any particular difficulty with three gods (if there were three gods) being united in purpose and authority, but if that is the extent of their “oneness” then one cannot reasonably claim that there is only one God. It means there are three, distinct and separate divine beings (gods) with the same purpose and authority.
Very simply because we have received, through divine revelation, the truth that there is only one God. We are commanded ( I believe it is the first commandment) to worship only the one, true God and to have no other gods before him. Belief in one God is so central and fundamental to Christianity that one not accepting monotheism as part of their beliefs could not in any reasonable fashion be considered Christian. That is why it matters. Hope I did okay on the “without malice” part.
We don’t agree, but I have a lot of respect for you in this regard.
The answer would be:** “Yes**, but…”
That`s not reassuring.
Don’t forget the goddesses!
Yes, that was very nicely done.
Well, yes, I think it does. Polytheism, the way I’ve understood it, involves multiple deities of different types and temperaments–a god of sky, god of sea, god of love, god of war, etc.–and there is usually a local emphasis of one god over another; e.g., one city mostly honors the sea god while another city honors the god of war. I don’t find Mormonism to be polytheistic in that sense:
And of course, not being monotheistic is the charge often leveled against trinitarian Christians by followers of Judaism and Islam. If the Bruce McConkie concept of worship is actually correct Mormon doctrine, then they honor Father, Son, and Holy Ghost as divine beings, yet worship and pray to just the Father. I think this has as much right to be considered monotheism as the trinitarian concept of worshipping three divine persons which are considered one due to their sharing the same essence.
Be careful with that quotation. There`s a vital difference between **orthodox Christianity, **as per Catholicism, and Orthodox Christianity.
The Nicene Creed, as it was adopted by ecumenical councils, did not contain the phrase “and the Son”; the later addition of that phrase in the West was one of the main causes of schism, so I chose to quote a source that didn’t include it as being more representative of “orthodoxy” (even though the Anglican church I attend does include it in the version we recite).Be careful with that quotation. There`s a vital difference between **orthodox Christianity, **as per Catholicism, and Orthodox Christianity.
The Nicene Creed says that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father AND the Son, NOT from the Father THROUGH the Son.
Saint Thomas Aquinas would disagree with that Orthodox wiki quote: in fact,we know quite a bit about the inner Life of God: ref that katapi link and post #38/post #126. Why`s that stuff being ignored?
This is based on a non-understanding of Trinitarian doctrine. It doesn’t compare to Mormon polytheism, which explicitly defines and accepts many gods.
beings=more than one=polytheistic
At the best they are henotheistic, which is a form of polytheism.
Yes! “He will rule as King of Kings and reign as Lord of Lords, and every knee shall bend ****and every tongue shall speak in worship before Him.Each of us will stand to be judged of Him according to our works and the desires of our hearts.” (emphasis added)
Who created Satan?Here’s a thought: IF Jesus is YOUR brother AND Jesus & Satan are “brothers”, then Satan MUST be YOUR BROTHER!
Indeed! Lots of myths by Mormons!1 Timothy warns of this: myths, speculations that are not the plan of God and meaningless talk.
3 I repeat the request I made of you when I was on my way to Macedonia, that you stay in Ephesus to instruct certain people not to teach false doctrines
4 or to concern themselves with myths and endless genealogies, which promote speculations rather than the plan of God that is to be received by faith.
5 The aim of this instruction is love from a pure heart, a good conscience, and a sincere faith.
6 Some people have deviated from these and turned to meaningless talk,
7 wanting to be teachers of the law, but without understanding either what they are saying or what they assert with such assurance.
I would add to the Mormon myth the belief that there was a “great apostasy” in the church. No where can it be found. A myth. Joseph Smith a prophet from God. A myth.
Jesus established his church on earth, the Catholic church. He would not let it fall immediately into apostasy and then wait 1800+ years for it to be restored. Myth…