Sorry Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons, Jesus is God.

[SteveVH]

This would mean, then, if the trinity doctrine were really true, that God’s chosen people never worshiped God in truth Jn 4:24. This would mean, of course, that Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, King David, Daniel, Isaiah, Elijah, and all the rest of the inspired prophets of God, inspired writers of scripture, etc. never knew the true God!

God revealed himself slowly, over time, culminating in the fullness of God’s revelation in the Person of Jesus Christ. The fact that they had not received the fullness of God’s revelation does not mean that they did not worship God in truth. Even with God’s revelation of himself in Jesus Christ, we cannot fully comprehend that which is incomprehensible to the human mind; the almighty and eternal God. We will only know him fully when we see him face to face in heaven.

How is it that all these faithful people, beloved by God Himself, never taught a 3-in-one God (or a ‘multiple-person God’ of any kind)?
Why was this most elementary, basic, and essential information (if the trinity is true) about God not taught to His people for thousands of years?

Probably because they were without the benefit of the revelation of Jesus Christ. The Trinity is a divinely revealed truth which did not come to light until Christ became incarnate and dwelt among us, revealing the truth of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

Why was it not carefully and clearly taught by those who wrote the New Testament?

Well, it is carefully and clearly taught that Jesus was, himself, God. This was the reason the Jews wanted him crucified; he was claiming to be God. He not only claimed it, but also proved it through his miracles. He forgave a man’s sins; something that only God can do. And to prove that he had the authority to do so he asked: “But so that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins…” Then he said to the paralytic, “Get up, take your mat and go home.” (Matt 9:6) This same story is in all four Gospels and this is only one example of the divinity of Christ.

Look how carefully and clearly they taught the knowledge of the Christ in the NT. That, too, means eternal life (John 17:3), so it was taught clearly and repeatedly throughout the New Testament that Jesus alone is the Christ, the Messiah!

And?

One might argue that the knowledge of the Christ was not clearly and abundantly revealed in the Old Testament, and that is very true. But when the time came that such knowledge became necessary for one’s very eternal life (John 17:3), it was simply, clearly, repeatedly, and unmistakably declared throughout the NT!

And why do you think that this was unmistakably declared throughout the NT? Christ is clearly and unmistakably referred to throughout the NT as our Savior. At the same time we are told that *“Paul, a servant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ to further the faith of God’s elect and their knowledge of the truth that leads to godliness in the hope of eternal life, which God, who does not lie, promised before the beginning of time, and which now at his appointed season he has brought to light through the preaching entrusted to me by the command of God our Savior” (Titus 1:1-4). If Christ is our Savior and God is our Savior then what do you suppose that might make Christ? If A = C and B = C then A = B, does it not?

So where is the scriptural deluge of statements that are equally clear and repeated (as are those identifying the one true Christ) which declare the life-saving knowledge that “God is one and is three;” or “In the one God there are three persons;” or “God is one: God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit;” etc.?

When one approaches scripture with a preconceived notion it makes it much more difficult. But I think you would have to agree that if it can be shown that Christ is God then one would have to re-think their position concerning the Trinity. From what I understand of your faith tradition, even a statement as clear as Thomas’ acclamation “My Lord and my God” is rejected as saying what it clearly says. If one wishes to take this approach with a statment as clear as that, then what could we possibly show you that would be convincing? What proof do you need?*

 

[Eglantine]

I believe that the claim that Jesus is God is overt in the Gospels, but that we don’t see it because we don’t look at the Gospels as a Jew in the first century would have.

One of the ways in which the authors of scripture tell us that Jesus is God is through an overt reference to the very first verses of the Hebrew Scriptures.

In the beginning, when God created the heavens and the earth, the earth was a formless wasteland, and darkness covered the abyss, while a mighty wind swept over the waters. (Genesis 1:1-2)

He woke up, rebuked the wind, and said to the sea, “Quiet! Be still!” The wind ceased and there was great calm*. Then he asked them, “Why are you terrified? Do you not yet have faith?” They were filled with great awe and said to one another, “Who then is this whom even wind and sea obey?” (Mark 4:39-41)

In Genesis 1, God creates Heaven and earth, and in so doing, wields absolute power over wind and water. I believe that Mark’s placement of Jesus in a power of absolute authority over wind and sea was overt, and that Jews who were knowledgeable about the Hebrew scriptures would have recognized the reference. I believe that this passage, and parallel passages in the other Gospels, were clear statements of Jesus divinity - that he was the same God who created Heaven and earth in the book of Genesis.

Mark and the other Gospel authors use similar techniques, references to Genesis and God’s power to create, to tell their audiences that Jesus is in fact God.

Then he said to them, “The sabbath was made for man, not man for the sabbath. That is why the Son of Man is lord even of the sabbath.” (Mark 2:27:28)

The sabbath was of divine origin, created by God on the seventh day when God rested, and given by God as a gift to mankind. To claim that you were “lord of the sabbath” was to claim that you were the creator of the sabbath, and that you had authority over the sabbath. Again, the Jews would have recognized this as a clear indication that Jesus claimed to be the same God who created the Sabbath for man in Genesis 2:1-3.

Similarly, Jesus’ cleansing of the temple in Mark 11:17 was a sign that he had authority over the temple. Jesus claim that “Something greater than the temple is here” in Matthew 12:6 would have been especially shocking. To a Jew in the first century, the Temple was the center of the universe, where God dwelt with men, and to say that you were greater than the temple was to claim that you were God.

This is why the chief priests and scribes sought to kill Jesus for blasphemy, because to a Jew, these were clear claims by Jesus that he was divine, that he was in fact the same God (consubstantial?) who created Heaven and earth, the sabbath, and the temple.

-Tim-

The problem with your argument is that you rely for your evidence on the ‘New Testament’ which is not the Word of God. It cannot be, as it has too many human errors. There is no error in the Torah and it is Torah which the NT (along with the Koran) claims its authority on. Who were the gospel writers? No one knows but they weren’t witnesses and didn’t even know Jesus Neither did Paul. Paul claims to be Jewish but the evidence of his own writing shows he was not. The biggest problem (again along with the Koran) is that the NT goes against the Torah, which is God’s DIRECT teaching to Moses and the whole Jewish nation, and witnessed by all of them. Who witnessed the ‘annunciation’? No one. The NT is full of errors, yet the CC claims it is ‘inerrant’ and inspired by God. The claim that Jsus is God directly contradicts the first commandent which says ‘you shall have NO OTHER GODS BEFORE ME’. This means no mediator is required between the human person and God. Nor is there required a blood sacrifice for atonement as any proper reading of Hebrew Scripture will show. The ‘old testament’ is not old, It is the one and only eternal testament.

 

[love-bias]

The problem with your argument is that you rely for your evidence on the ‘New Testament’ which is not the Word of God. It cannot be, as it has too many human errors. There is no error in the Torah and it is Torah which the NT (along with the Koran) claims its authority on. Who were the gospel writers? No one knows but they weren’t witnesses and didn’t even know Jesus Neither did Paul. Paul claims to be Jewish but the evidence of his own writing shows he was not. The biggest problem (again along with the Koran) is that the NT goes against the Torah, which is God’s DIRECT teaching to Moses and the whole Jewish nation, and witnessed by all of them. Who witnessed the ‘annunciation’? No one. The NT is full of errors, yet the CC claims it is ‘inerrant’ and inspired by God. The claim that Jsus is God directly contradicts the first commandent which says ‘you shall have NO OTHER GODS BEFORE ME’. This means no mediator is required between the human person and God. Nor is there required a blood sacrifice for atonement as any proper reading of Hebrew Scripture will show. The ‘old testament’ is not old, It is the one and only eternal testament.

I like your perspective. Where does it come from? And how do we even know the “Old Testament” wasn’t made up? I’m sorry but are you >2000 years old? I’m just not sure what you have and have not seen with your actual eyes as different from imagination, lights and shadows.npatrol:npatrol:npatrol:

 

[East_Anglican]

Sorry Jehovah’s Witnesses and Mormons, Jesus is God.
/QUOTE]

Amen Jesus is God and there’s no need to apologise.

 

[Battleaxe]

God revealed himself slowly, over time, culminating in the fullness of God’s revelation in the Person of Jesus Christ. The fact that they had not received the fullness of God’s revelation does not mean that they did not worship God in truth. Even with God’s revelation of himself in Jesus Christ, we cannot fully comprehend that which is incomprehensible to the human mind; the almighty and eternal God. ** We will only know him fully when we see him face to face in heaven.**

And even then, we won`t know Him totally, because only God, Himself, can know Himself fully.

Probably because they were without the benefit of the revelation of Jesus Christ. The Trinity is a divinely revealed truth which did not come to light until Christ became incarnate and dwelt among us, revealing the truth of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

Adding to that:

“…baptising in the NAME [ie SINGULAR] of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.” [TRINITARIAN] [Matthew 28:19]

The JW expression would have to be:

…baptising in the name of Jehovah God and of the re-constituted re-constituted Michael the archangel and of Jehovah God`s impersonal Holy Spirit.

It doesnt make sense. It does violence to Jesus almost-last words recorded in Matthews Gospel. The Mormon concept of God does the same thing. ........................................................................................................................ Jesus last words in Matthew`s Gospel are:

…and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age. [Matt 28:20]

Elsewhere, He says:

I will not leave you orphans. [John 14:18]

And yet, the claims made that **GOD abandoned the early Christians to a rudderless ship!!! ** :eek: Jesus specifically states that He would not do that. **That frightful belief makes a mockery of Gods Love for us.**
…

Well, it is carefully and clearly taught that Jesus was, himself, God…

…if one wishes to take this approach with a statment as clear as that, then what could we possibly show you that would be convincing? What proof do you need?

A Bible translation which alters “Before Abraham was, I AM.” [John 8:58]
to
“Before Abraham was, I have been.”, or “I was” or whatever, doesn`t help.
“…and the Word was a god.”
Etc.

Mormons deny that this label is appropriate.

“It should be remembered that polytheism has reference to pagan deities …[ETC]…using a word with negative connotations in our religious culture as a club to intimidate or confuse others.”

Polytheism by any other name is still polytheism.
The fact that Mormons dont believe in the ancient gods and goddesses of Greece and elsewhere doesnt alter the fact that they believe that theres an unknown number of gods and goddesses. Sure only one is named, but they still believe in the existence of the others. The term "polytheistic" fits, so why cant the rest of us use it? The truth is the truth. It`s not our fault that they believe in the existence of more than one God.

A genuine question: how do Mormons think it all started? Or do they steer away from that issue?
Can anyone answer?

At the end of it all, do we believe Joseph Smith and his successors or Charles Russell and his successors or one of the other 30,000+ (and counting) denominations or the almost-2,000-years-old Catholic Church?

 

[Pepband_Mom]

[SIGN][/SIGN]

searchforbibletruths.blogspot.com/2010/07/i-am-john-858-ex-314.html

There is no doubt that a proper knowledge of the God we worship is essential. (Ex. 20:2, 3, 5; Is. 45:22; Jn 17:3; 2 Thess. 1:7-9; Jn 4:24, NIV; Ro. 1:18-21, 25, NIV) Trinitarians, of course, agree …But they insist that we must have the “true” knowledge of the “three persons-in-one God” (in contrast to the knowledge that God is one person alone, the Father, whose only personal name is Jehovah).

This would mean, then, if the trinity doctrine were really true, that God’s chosen people never worshiped God in truth Jn 4:24. This would mean, of course, that Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, King David, Daniel, Isaiah, Elijah, and all the rest of the inspired prophets of God, inspired writers of scripture, etc. never knew the true God!

How is it that all these faithful people, beloved by God Himself, never taught a 3-in-one God (or a ‘multiple-person God’ of any kind)?
Why was this most elementary, basic, and essential information (if the trinity is true) about God not taught to His people for thousands of years?

Why was it not carefully and clearly taught by those who wrote the New Testament?

Look how carefully and clearly they taught the knowledge of the Christ in the NT. That, too, means eternal life (John 17:3), so it was taught clearly and repeatedly throughout the New Testament that Jesus alone is the Christ, the Messiah!

One might argue that the knowledge of the Christ was not clearly and abundantly revealed in the Old Testament, and that is very true. But when the time came that such knowledge became necessary for one’s very eternal life (John 17:3), it was simply, clearly, repeatedly, and unmistakably declared throughout the NT!
Such knowledge was not necessary to eternal life for those who lived and died before the Messiah came to earth!

But the knowledge of who is the only true God whom you must worship in truth has always been necessary to eternal life for God’s people.

And though revealed to his people clearly and abundantly in the OT, the knowledge of God is still at least as essential as the knowledge of the Christ for those who wrote the NT (John 17:3).

So where is the scriptural deluge of statements that are equally clear and repeated (as are those identifying the one true Christ) which declare the life-saving knowledge that “God is one and is three;” or “In the one God there are three persons;” or “God is one: God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit;” etc.?

…BACK SOON

“The Bible in Living English”, 1981 edition, says the following on page 1365, John 1:1:

“At the the first there was the Word, and the Word was where God was, and the Word was God.”

Interesting, It mentioned the Word, Christ Jesus, the Lamb, the Savior as “God” part of the Tri - unity. Funny, this Bible was printed by the:

“WATCHTOWER BIBLE AND TRACT SOCIETY OF NEW YOUR, INC., International Bible Students Association, Brooklyn, New York, U.S.A.”

 

[WingsOfEagles]

Why do some consider Mormons christians? It seems that everything they teach is contrary to Holy Scripture.:bible1:

In an academic context, they are a Christian movement. A flawed movement, yes, but it’s roots are definitely Christian.

 

[Pepband_Mom]

re post #162 Sorry for typo: NEW YORK it should have said.

 

[Pepband_Mom]

WATCHTOWER → same Bible “Living English” states on page 1379:
John 8:58 "Jesus said to them “Verily, verily I tell you, before there was an Abraham I am.”

Contrasted to their “New World Translation”: “…I have been”. Been whaaaaaat…?

Hmmm which translation is correct?

What about the Bible with the incorrect translation - which one does WT deem accurate - they printed both? What to do with the inaccurate translation? IS IT GOD or a god? Polar opposite meanings folks; funny though they printed BOTH!!!

What to do with Jesus as “a god” - Remember thou shalt have no other gods besides me! Remember Deut 6:4 “Hear, O Israel, the Lord thy God is one”. Seems you can’t sneak Jesus into the equation as: “a god” !!!

See a dlilemma here? What do you tell the foot soldiers: WATCHTOWER PRINTED BOTH BIBLES & between the 2 = DIFFERENT MEANINGS.

Bottom line: Jesus is NOT confused nor the Church he founded, nor is Yahweh confused!

 

[WingsOfEagles]

WATCHTOWER → same Bible “Living English” states on page 1379:
John 8:58 "Jesus said to them “Verily, verily I tell you, before there was an Abraham I am.”

Contrasted to their “New World Translation”: “…I have been”. Been whaaaaaat…?

Hmmm which translation is correct?

What about the Bible with the incorrect translation - which one does WT deem accurate - they printed both? What to do with the inaccurate translation? IS IT GOD or a god? Polar opposite meanings folks; funny though they printed BOTH!!!

What to do with Jesus as “a god” - Remember thou shalt have no other gods besides me! Remember Deut 6:4 “Hear, O Israel, the Lord thy God is one”. Seems you can’t sneak Jesus into the equation as: “a god” !!!

See a dlilemma here? What do you tell the foot soldiers: WATCHTOWER PRINTED BOTH BIBLES & between the 2 = DIFFERENT MEANINGS.

Bottom line: Jesus is NOT confused nor the Church he founded, nor is Yahweh confused!

I would assume that it means “I have been in existence.” There are other issues, but I guess I’m not seeing the dilemma on that verse?

 

[Battleaxe]

I would assume that it means “I have been in existence.” There are other issues, but I guess I’m not seeing the dilemma on that verse?

“…before there was an Abraham, I AM.” echoes God`s words from the burning bush. God says to Moses:

**I AM **WHO AM…Thus, say to the children of Israel: “**I AM **sent me”. Exodus 3:14.

God is eternal Existence Itself. He`s the Cause of all existence.

“…I have been.” empties Jesus` words of the eternal Existence meaning.

Sadly, Galatians 1:6-9 applies to the WBTS.

 

[dj_dave]

[SIGN]

“…before there was an Abraham, I AM.” echoes God`s words from the burning bush. God says to Moses:

God is eternal Existence Itself. He`s the Cause of all existence.

“…I have been.” empties Jesus` words of the eternal Existence meaning.

Sadly, Galatians 1:6-9 applies to the WBTS.

[/SIGN]

EVERYTHING being spoken about has been covered for years…

searchforbibletruthsscriptureindex.blogspot.com/

 

[Battleaxe]

[SIGN][/SIGN]

EVERYTHING being spoken about has been covered for years…

searchforbibletruthsscriptureindex.blogspot.com/

Including, as already mentioned, the straw-man arguments the WBTS uses to supposedly illustrate the Doctrine of the Blessed Trinity (in publications such as “Should You Believe The Trinity?” and “You Can Live Forever in Paradise on Earth”), and then of course knocks down.

As i said a while back, if our understanding of the Trinity were what you claim it is, youd have every right to ridicule it, along with everyone else. But it aint!

Some leaders of the WBTS (and SDAs etc) are going to have to explain to God why they mangled the truth. .

 

[iohannes13]

I’ve researched this very topic and found that JW’s use to teach that Jesus was God. I don’t recall why they changed to say that Jesus is St. Michael. Man it’s was 12 years ago when I looked into this. Their old Watchtowers magazines still show this. So if you can find copies of such magazines going back almost 100 years you’ll see that they use to teach that Jesus is God.

Now I saw some comments quoting scriptures to prove His divinity and some disbelief as to why they can deny it with the scriptures being clear as day. You see, the watch tower changed any reference to Jesus being divine in their translation of the Bible. Accept one if they offer it to you and compare those verses between the two versions of the Bible. Unfortunatly, JW’s have been brainwashed to believe that any other Bible has been comprimized by the devil. They won’t even want to touch your Bible much less read from it. Quoting from your Bible will get you nowhere. The WatchTower did not eliminate all references to the Divinity of Christ. They missed a couple. They may have changed that by now. But I vaguely recall that one reference that they missed was when Jesus was going to be stoned for making Himself equal to God in one of his sermons.

 

[Battleaxe]

I’ve researched this very topic and found that JW’s use to teach that Jesus was God. I don’t recall why they changed to say that Jesus is St. Michael…

Now I saw some comments quoting scriptures to prove His divinity and some disbelief as to why they can deny it with the scriptures being clear as day. You see, the watch tower changed any reference…

…But I vaguely recall that one reference that they missed was when Jesus was going to be stoned for making Himself equal to God in one of his sermons.

Seventeen years ago (theres a reason for remembering), i asked a JW at the front door how could they justify changing their beliefs. His answer was that theyre humble enough to admit that theyve held wrong beliefs. So much for Our Lords words that the Spirit of Truth would lead us into all truth. [John 16:13] Seems He got sidetracked or wasn`t paying attention a few times. But, the WBTS Holy Spirit is only an impersonal force, anyway.

im kicking myself for not keeping copies of JW literature dating back to the 1960s. :blush: Theres nothing like the original.

What anger me are the deceptions in their literature, eg:
On pages 40 and 41 of “You Can Live Forever in Paradise on Earh”, there`s an illustration of the disciples with the tongues of fire over their heads.
The caption says:

How could the holy spirit be a person, when it !] filled about 120 disciples at the same time?

At least some of the WBTS leadership must know that there`s an infinite difference in meaning between when the word “person” is applied to ourselves, and when the word “Person” (UPPERCASE “P”) is applied to the Persons of the Blessed Trinity.
Why the deception in that book?
And so on with other stuff elsewhere.

What`s their explanation?

There`s the rejection of the truth that Jesus has a human nature AND His divine nature.
Plus the belief that because Adam is a mere man, the Redemption could be achieved by a mere man.
On page 63:

Jesus was the equal of the perfect man Adam.

That`s forgetting that the offended Party (God) is infinite, so the Atoning Sacrifice has to be infinite. Jesus the God-Man is the perfect choice.

 

[Porknpie]

Seventeen years ago (theres a reason for remembering), i asked a JW at the front door how could they justify changing their beliefs. His answer was that theyre humble enough to admit that theyve held wrong beliefs. So much for Our Lords words that the Spirit of Truth would lead us into all truth. [John 16:13] Seems He got sidetracked or wasn`t paying attention a few times. But, the WBTS Holy Spirit is only an impersonal force, anyway.

im kicking myself for not keeping copies of JW literature dating back to the 1960s. :blush: Theres nothing like the original.

What anger me are the deceptions in their literature, eg:
On pages 40 and 41 of “You Can Live Forever in Paradise on Earh”, there`s an illustration of the disciples with the tongues of fire over their heads.
The caption says:

At least some of the WBTS leadership must know that there`s an infinite difference in meaning between when the word “person” is applied to ourselves, and when the word “Person” (UPPERCASE “P”) is applied to the Persons of the Blessed Trinity.
Why the deception in that book?
And so on with other stuff elsewhere.

What`s their explanation?

There`s the rejection of the truth that Jesus has a human nature AND His divine nature.
Plus the belief that because Adam is a mere man, the Redemption could be achieved by a mere man.
On page 63:

That`s forgetting that the offended Party (God) is infinite, so the Atoning Sacrifice has to be infinite. Jesus the God-Man is the perfect choice.

The best part for Christians (+ certainly Catholics) is that we’ll ALL spend eternity with God IN HEAVEN, assuming that we respond to his love.

1 Timothy 2:4

3This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
4**who desires all men to be saved **and to come to the [a]knowledge of the truth.

Worst lie of JW belief is that only 144,000 will be saved. We can hope and pray that God will be merciful to them.

 

[Battleaxe]

The best part for Christians (+ certainly Catholics) is that we’ll ALL spend eternity with God IN HEAVEN, assuming that we respond to his love.

Yep! The Beatific Vision!

Worst lie of JW belief is that only 144,000 will be saved. [to become spirit persons] We can hope and pray that God will be merciful to them.

AMEN.
The members who are sincerely ignorant of the truth cant be held responsible, but, Its the fate of the leaders of the WBTS and similar groups that bothers me. Theyre the ones whove deprived their followers of the truth.

There are the members who refuse to take notice of anything contrary to their beliefs…

How long would it take for the ones living in log cabins in the mountains or wherever, to be thoroughly sick of it? It stands to reason that there has to be something higher. CS Lewis called this life “Shadowlands”.

First Corinthians 13:12 says:

For now we see through a glass darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then I shall know even as also I am known. [King James Bible: Cambridge Edition]

That points to a far greater destiny for all of the saved.
To me, “but then I shall know” in fact points to the Beatific Vision: spirit-to-Spirit contact with God and spirit-to-spirit contact with all of the angels and the other blesseds.

 

[jrtrent]

JrTrent - after reading the definition, do you believe Mormons to be polytheists?

No, I do not. In my experience of the term as used in religious studies and seminary classes, as well as the brief descriptions I’ve seen in various public school textbooks, polytheism carries far more content than the bare definition of “belief in or worship of more than one god.” Below are excerpts from a short page on polytheism that describes it in terms similar to what I have been taught:

The belief in multiple gods is probably the result of an earlier belief in vaguely defined spirits, demons and other supernatural forces. These belief systems are similar to animism, ancestor worship and totemism. However, in polytheism, these supernatural forces are personified and organized into a cosmic family. This “family” becomes the nucleus of a particular culture’s belief system. The family of gods was used to explain natural phenomena and to establish a culture’s role in the universe. . .

Unlike Christian, Jewish and Islamic doctrine, there is rarely an absolute truth associated with polytheistic thinking. Ideas of morality (notions of right and wrong) are relative to the individual or culture. Each believer is free to worship the god of his or her choice in the manner of his or her liking. As a result, each person is free to behave as he or she sees fit. Although polytheistic systems provide flexibility and a relativistic lack of accountability, they often leave followers with no sense of ultimate purpose and no prospect for eternal hope. Monotheistic faiths such as Christianity teach that absolute truth is reality, mankind is on earth for a purpose, and eternal salvation is possible for those seeking a reconciled relationship with the one true God. polytheism.net/

While the Mormon concepts of the Godhead and eternal progression are not in line with Trinitarian thinking, they did not stem from belief in demons and supernatural forces, and, unlike polytheistic religions, Mormons definitely believe in and teach that there is absolute truth, a purpose for mankind, and the possibility of eternal salvation. I think there are better ways to explain and differentiate Mormon theology from orthodox theology than by using a term like polytheism, which carries so much extra baggage.

 

[jrtrent]

Their old Watchtowers magazines still show this. So if you can find copies of such magazines going back almost 100 years you’ll see that they use to teach that Jesus is God.

I haven’t searched for the “Jesus is God” concept, but I did find this site (jwfacts.com/watchtower/worship-jesus.php) that has numerous quotes and scans from older publications that point to changes in doctrine and practice over the years. Of course, as someone else pointed out, JW’s don’t deny that their teachings have changed.

Unfortunatly, JW’s have been brainwashed to believe that any other Bible has been comprimized by the devil. They won’t even want to touch your Bible much less read from it.

I didn’t find that to be the case when I went through their What Does the Bible Really Teach? book last year. The ones I studied with used many different Bible translations, and they were curious and often positive about the footnotes found in the MacArthur study Bible I typically had with me.

 

[iohannes13]

I didn’t find that to be the case when I went through their What Does the Bible Really Teach? book last year. The ones I studied with used many different Bible translations, and they were curious and often positive about the footnotes found in the MacArthur study Bible I typically had with me.

I was working with people that were newly converted. They were trying to get me to join. That may have had something to do with it. Who knows. They did not even want to look at a history book by Will Durant when I pulled it out as reference. They moved away from it with eyes wide open like it was something dangerous or evil. The WatchTower literature they provided me made comments here and there that other Bibles were under the devil’s influence (leading us to the “false” doctrine of the Trinity). If you did not encounter that, then their conversion tactics have changed. It’s been 12 years and they no longer knock on my door. I’m too indoctrinated with the Trinity and could actually quote their Bible to show Jesus is Divine. There is no hope for me, I guess, why bother talking to me and leaving me literature.