Soul Mates

[valient_Lucy]

I’m sorry guys, but I still have to disagree. The vocation of marriage is to honor Him, but how can you really honor him in a loveless marriage? I’m pretty sure there’s a passage in the Bible that says husband and wife are supposed to love each other - sorry, not trying to sound condescending, just that I can’t remember the verse.

Anyway, when I marry, I want to be “in love”.

Just my $0.02.

There’s a lot more to love than being “in love.” Love is not a feeling, or at least, it cannot be defined as a feeling. Love is the conscious decision to work for the good of another person without accepting anything in return, even if it means sacrificing your own needs and wants. We are to love our spouse even at the moments when we feel nothing for them, or are angry at them and wish to retaliate against them. That’s how married couples honor God in their marriage.

 

[valient_Lucy]

So just as Christ has one church, and Eve comes out of Adam’s one flesh, so do we have one mate, which we meet out of living the simple life of listening to God’s commands for our life. God desires the best for His children, His destiny is laid out before us, so to us, it might as well be the only way. Some times we will fail, but meeting your mate is one of those things which is realistically inexcusable.

I think you should be careful saying things like this, considering that 50% of the population is divorced (including my parents) and there are probably people on this forum who are divorced. To say that they have done something inexcusable is most likely very hurtful, especially considering that many of them probably believed with their whole being that they had met the love of their life, the “one” that God had prepared for them.

 

[kage_ar]

I’m sorry guys, but I still have to disagree. The vocation of marriage is to honor Him, but how can you really honor him in a loveless marriage? I’m pretty sure there’s a passage in the Bible that says husband and wife are supposed to love each other - sorry, not trying to sound condescending, just that I can’t remember the verse.

Anyway, when I marry, I want to be “in love”.

Just my $0.02.

We are to love one another, that is a commandment. Scripture does not command romantic emotion in marriage, we are told to love one another and submit to one another and cherish one another. The Scripture does not say “thou shalt have mushy pitty pat heart for thy spouse”.

Bishop Fulton J. Sheen did a TV broadcast and it is also a chapter in one of his books on “Three kinds of Proposals”, it is well worth finding and reading/viewing.

 

[catechumen08]

We are to love one another, that is a commandment. Scripture does not command romantic emotion in marriage, we are told to love one another and submit to one another and cherish one another. The Scripture does not say “thou shalt have mushy pitty pat heart for thy spouse”.

Bishop Fulton J. Sheen did a TV broadcast and it is also a chapter in one of his books on “Three kinds of Proposals”, it is well worth finding and reading/viewing.

I beg to differ. In the encyclical issued by Pope Benedict, Deus Caritas Est, he talks about eros, agape, and logos. So there’s obviously a difference between love between husband and wife and the love between brothers and sisters of Christ.

 

[chevalier]

I agree there’s a difference between brotherly/sisterly and spousal love.

I agree with the idea that we need to be in love to marry. It’s not a condition of validity, but it’s extremely important. I generally think marrying without it is against nature.

Next, as for divorces, there’s difference between getting a civil divorce from a marriage found null by the Church, and getting divorced to stop having to put up with someone. There’s always an obligation to try to reconcile so long as the marriage is valid.

Further next, sometimes, I believe, expecting to marry the one ideal person chosen by God Himself for us, may blend with the secular soulmate concept, leading people to feel disappointed if the ideal mate does something a tad bit too low to be ideal. The primary institution here is marriage - the sacrament of matrimony. Not a soulmate concept. The fact we didn’t marry an ideal person doesn’t mean it’s worthless and the marriage is null and we need to keep looking. We have to stick with whom we marry and to work the best we can for the marriage. We never have the guarantee that a better match won’t pop up later. It’s the sacrament and the oath that binds us.

 

[FrancesDaphne]

…I agree with the idea that we need to be in love to marry. It’s not a condition of validity, but it’s extremely important. I generally think marrying without it is against nature.

Next, as for divorces, there’s difference between getting a civil divorce from a marriage found null by the Church, and getting divorced to stop having to put up with someone. There’s always an obligation to try to reconcile so long as the marriage is valid.

Further next, sometimes, I believe, expecting to marry the one ideal person chosen by God Himself for us, may blend with the secular soulmate concept, leading people to feel disappointed if the ideal mate does something a tad bit too low to be ideal.** The primary institution here is marriage** - the sacrament of matrimony. Not a soulmate concept. The fact we didn’t marry an ideal person doesn’t mean it’s worthless and the marriage is null and we need to keep looking. We have to stick with whom we marry and to work the best we can for the marriage. We never have the guarantee that a better match won’t pop up later. It’s the sacrament and the oath that binds us.

I can identify with the above underlined & bolded words. I’d like to elaborate using the word “choice”.
my mum & dad married out of love - it was fantastic in the beginning.

However, for as long as I was alive he was never faithful.
till today, he lives with his mistress in Indonesia…

but my mum, oddly, tells me
“for as long as the divorce papers are not signed, he is my husband”

to add to that - mum & dad weren’t even christians when they got married!
Mum & i got baptised only in 2004.
My family’s grown up in a culture of mixed practices (which is very typical of Chinese) Taoism+Buddhism+Chinese pagan superstitions.
my dad is still not a Christian, he practices chinese pagan superstitions in pursuit of wealth & power…

I’m amazed at my mum’s faithfulness.
It seems God’s graces (especially honoring the oaths) are so deeply carved into her heart that it gives her strength to continue raising my brother & I, maintain the household – & not turn into a bitter hate-bearing grudge-filled depressed hag…

mum can easily dwell on the concept of whether my dad’s “The One”— she could keep pondering if she could have a “Soul Mate” that she’s missed… but she chose to focus on her marriage oath…

My mum’s choice has shown that its not humanly impossible when we submit ourselves completely to God - especially when we ask for His Help - after all -God honors Marriage - & i sincerely believe He blesses those who seek His Will with all their heart.
(even if it means the marriage turned out less-than-ideal)

 

[nablaise]

I think you should be careful saying things like this, considering that 50% of the population is divorced (including my parents) and there are probably people on this forum who are divorced. To say that they have done something inexcusable is most likely very hurtful, especially considering that many of them probably believed with their whole being that they had met the love of their life, the “one” that God had prepared for them.

My parents are divorced too and both remaried to other persons. Sometimes I wonder if I am a ‘mistake’ or if my half-siblings are ‘mistakes’ or… Well I know none of us is a mistake so why do this things happen? Still I still chose to believe what the book of Tobi says, that God has ‘one’ person for me. Not a proposal of two or ten among whom I have to chose ‘freely’

 

[nablaise]

I agree there’s a difference between brotherly/sisterly and spousal love.

I agree with the idea that we need to be in love to marry. It’s not a condition of validity, but it’s extremely important. I generally think marrying without it is against nature.

Next, as for divorces, there’s difference between getting a civil divorce from a marriage found null by the Church, and getting divorced to stop having to put up with someone. There’s always an obligation to try to reconcile so long as the marriage is valid.

Further next, sometimes, I believe, expecting to marry the one ideal person chosen by God Himself for us, may blend with the secular soulmate concept, leading people to feel disappointed if the ideal mate does something a tad bit too low to be ideal. The primary institution here is marriage - the sacrament of matrimony. Not a soulmate concept. The fact we didn’t marry an ideal person doesn’t mean it’s worthless and the marriage is null and we need to keep looking. We have to stick with whom we marry and to work the best we can for the marriage. We never have the guarantee that a better match won’t pop up later. It’s the sacrament and the oath that binds us.

I think I heard on EWTN that marriage is a sacrament ‘we’ give to each other, the Church only blesses it. Can this blessing turn out to be ‘invalid’ I guess so, if for example the couple lied (or tricked) to each other somewhere in the process of getting together, Can God really bless a lie? I think it is the same thing as what happens when we receive the Eucharist unworthly. It looks like we receive the Eucharist but only God knows what we receive. I think St. Paul said that in that case we eat our own jugement (or something like that…)

I think the sacrament only binds people when it is really ‘valid’. Actually doesn’t the Church go trough this kind of stull for those very special case where it accepts to invalidates some marriages? I don’t know much in this area, but I hear people talking about it…

 

[nablaise]

I can identify with the above underlined & bolded words. I’d like to elaborate using the word “choice”.
my mum & dad married out of love - it was fantastic in the beginning.

However, for as long as I was alive he was never faithful.
till today, he lives with his mistress in Indonesia…

but my mum, oddly, tells me
“for as long as the divorce papers are not signed, he is my husband”

to add to that - mum & dad weren’t even christians when they got married!
Mum & i got baptised only in 2004.
My family’s grown up in a culture of mixed practices (which is very typical of Chinese) Taoism+Buddhism+Chinese pagan superstitions.
my dad is still not a Christian, he practices chinese pagan superstitions in pursuit of wealth & power…

I’m amazed at my mum’s faithfulness.
It seems God’s graces (especially honoring the oaths) are so deeply carved into her heart that it gives her strength to continue raising my brother & I, maintain the household – & not turn into a bitter hate-bearing grudge-filled depressed hag…

mum can easily dwell on the concept of whether my dad’s “The One”— she could keep pondering if she could have a “Soul Mate” that she’s missed… but she chose to focus on her marriage oath…

My mum’s choice has shown that its not humanly impossible when we submit ourselves completely to God - especially when we ask for His Help - after all -God honors Marriage - & i sincerely believe He blesses those who seek His Will with all their heart.
(even if it means the marriage turned out less-than-ideal)

May be your mom does not want you guys to have a ‘second dad’. I could be primarly an oath she made to herself. I hope God won’t let me down, but if happen to get divorced with kids, I will never get married again. My step-father was a very good man, and my parents could definatevely not live together, but having a step-father created a painful distortion in my heart. I don’t want my kids to ever experience it, hopefully God will grant it.

 

[Michal]

nablaise:

Here the ‘unloveable’ I think should mean whatever imperfection the other has, we can cover them with a ‘decision’ to love fully. God want us to decide to love.

Moderation is the key. Love is felt and needs to felt, why else would God give us the feeling? Reckless passion, not based on God’s will for your life is the danger. Then when that passion is tamed by that reason, feeling and decisiveness go hand in hand and sharpen eachother.
valient Lucy:

To say that they have done something inexcusable is most likely very hurtful, especially considering that many of them probably believed with their whole being that they had met the love of their life, the “one” that God had prepared for them.

If that offended you, I apologize. But its not like my parents met the way I see is right either. Since I never married yet, I keep in mind the same audience; young and never married. So in that sense, it was very positive.

nablaise:

I think the sacrament only binds people when it is really ‘valid’.

This changes everything. I looked for a page describing what Catholics mean by sacarament, when it comes to marriage. The writer says:

Is it any wonder then that alone among all the religions and faiths of the world, alone among all the Christian Churches, the one, holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church proclaims today with as much force as ever that Sacramental Marriage is indissoluble, that only those marriages that are judged never to have existed in the first place because of some defect or impediment can be dissolved?!rotfl

The writer later quotes Pius XI, who quoted Cardinal Robert Bellarmine who said:

“The sacrament of Matrimony can be regarded in two ways: first in the making and then in its permanent state. For it is a sacrament like to that of the Eucharist, which not only while it is being conferred, but also while it remains, is a sacrament; for as long as the married parties are alive, so long as their union is a sacrament of Christ and His Church.”

 

[sacredcello]

food for thought… (Jeremiah 29: 11-13)

**For I know well the plans I have in mind for you, says the LORD, plans for your welfare, not for woe! plans to give you a future full of hope. **
When you call me, when you go to pray to me, I will listen to you.
When you look for me, you will find me. Yes, when you seek me with all your heart…

after a few ‘wrong’ choices (no regrets-- I’ve come to learn more abuot myself through them), I’m even more convinced to leave it in His Hands.

Better everlasting peace than eternal turmoil

Yes, this together with the Book of Tobit is enough evidence for me that God has a plan for each of us. Does it mean that every detail is already planned? No, but these scriptures give me all the more reason to leave it to Him rather than to friends, family or Catholic internet dating website. Any of these might be used by the Holy Spirit, but I would rather leave it to Divine Providence and my own good sense.

For instance, I once was set up on a blind date with someone who was “Catholic,” but turned out to be actually an atheist who was raised Catholic and went to Catholic schools all the way through to a PhD from a prominent Catholic university. If I had trusted my own good sense, I would never have gone on a second date, as it became clear that he was not a believer at our first meeting. Instead, I listened to the arguments of friends that I should consider him; he might convert. Fast forward 2 1/2 years later: it was all a waste of time.

Live and learn to trust in God!

 

[FrancesDaphne]

May be your mom does not want you guys to have a ‘second dad’. I could be primarly an oath she made to herself. I hope God won’t let me down, but if happen to get divorced with kids, I will never get married again. My step-father was a very good man, and my parents could definatevely not live together, but having a step-father created a painful distortion in my heart. I don’t want my kids to ever experience it, hopefully God will grant it.

yes that’s true too - also an oath she made to hersef to raise us as happy children.
this leads me to a thought:
If God didn’t intend for ME to be a mistake, why did He allow the marriage?

it seems a lot of this boils down to human choice:

1. 
   *]is he/she really “the one”?
   *]upon marriage, what kind of choices do i make to keep it going? (takes both hands to clap)
   Point 1 falls on an individual’s relationship with God, how closely attuned to God’s voice…
   Point 2 is probably a Big Reason why being in the Same Faith is crucial.
   
   Based on Jeremiah 29:11-13
   it is not for us humans to determine if those people have met their “soulmates”.
   The onus is to Pray, discern, decide & (just as sacredcello says…) Trust in Him.

 

[nablaise]

Thanks, yes all we need is to try to have complete trust. God has a plan for us as Jeremiah indicates. Those are conforting words.

We never know why things happen. Someone mentioned that nothing surprises God. So, even though I used the world ‘mistake’ I didn’t mean it. I know there is no mistake in God’s actions. However, everything that happens is either out of Divine Providence or Reprobation (I think this is how the CCC put it). There people who are even born outside marriage or outside any relationship. How do they make sens of their life?

I remember I was reading a story of one incorrupt saint (Blessed Margaret of Castello). She was born handicaped and her parents were ashamed of her so they basically through her away. The story said that she spent her life doing penance. When I read this, I wondered whose penance she was doing since she didn’t seem to live a sinful life.

Our purpose of life is to love and serve God. I think this includes doing penance may be for our parents in the first place. Wasn’t Jesus born specifically to do penance for the entire human race? I think part if not all the reason of our existance is to do penance!

No one is a mistake. And I believe like the Church teaches that before God’s eyes there is only one valid marriage.

As for us who are blessed to know the truth about all those things, I think your two points are perfect.

 

[valient_Lucy]

Yes, this together with the Book of Tobit is enough evidence for me that God has a plan for each of us. Does it mean that every detail is already planned? No, but these scriptures give me all the more reason to leave it to Him rather than to friends, family or Catholic internet dating website. Any of these might be used by the Holy Spirit, but I would rather leave it to Divine Providence and my own good sense.

For instance, I once was set up on a blind date with someone who was “Catholic,” but turned out to be actually an atheist who was raised Catholic and went to Catholic schools all the way through to a PhD from a prominent Catholic university. If I had trusted my own good sense, I would never have gone on a second date, as it became clear that he was not a believer at our first meeting. Instead, I listened to the arguments of friends that I should consider him; he might convert. Fast forward 2 1/2 years later: it was all a waste of time.

Live and learn to trust in God!

Jesus also said that our Heavenly Father clothes the lilies in the field and feeds the birds, without their effort. Should I quit my job and just trust that God will provide me food and clothes?

 

[PaulinVA]

y
Based on Jeremiah 29:11-13
it is not for us humans to determine if those people have met their “soulmates”.
The onus is to Pray, discern, decide & (just as sacredcello says…) Trust in Him.

Huh?

Jeremiah 29 verse 1 describes the situation:

This is the contents of the letter which the prophet Jeremiah sent from Jerusalem to the remaining elders among the exiles, to the priests, the prophets, and all the people who were exiled by Nebuchadnezzar from Jerusalem to Babylon.

Continue reading at verse nine:

9
Promote the welfare of the city to which I have exiled you; pray for it to the LORD, for upon its welfare depends your own.
10
Thus says the LORD: Only after seventy years have elapsed for Babylon will I visit you and fulfill for you my promise to bring you back to this place.
11
For I know well the plans I have in mind for you, says the LORD, plans for your welfare, not for woe! plans to give you a future full of hope.
12
When you call me, when you go to pray to me, I will listen to you.
13
When you look for me, you will find me. Yes, when you seek me with all your heart,

How does this apply to us today? I am really ambivalent about taking scripture that applied to a specific situation at a specific time and trying to apply it to all people and all time.

 

[Michal]

FrancesDaphne:

If God didn’t intend for ME to be a mistake, why did He allow the marriage?

That implies people are in control of life. Does that mean people can impede God’s plan simply by not having sex? Nope. No human power can surprise God.

He allowed the marriage just as God allows many other things that perplex us. You are a separate human being with your own will, you aren’t chained to you parents will.

The interesting thing about love though, when children are begotten out of love, we can say you are chained to your parents will so to speak, and greater significance can be attributed to the parents for begetting the person. But if you can do that, then they have definetly attributed their marriage to the glory of God. Its the circle of life.

 

[chevalier]

I think I heard on EWTN that marriage is a sacrament ‘we’ give to each other, the Church only blesses it. Can this blessing turn out to be ‘invalid’ I guess so, if for example the couple lied (or tricked) to each other somewhere in the process of getting together, Can God really bless a lie? I think it is the same thing as what happens when we receive the Eucharist unworthly. It looks like we receive the Eucharist but only God knows what we receive. I think St. Paul said that in that case we eat our own jugement (or something like that…)

I think the sacrament only binds people when it is really ‘valid’. Actually doesn’t the Church go trough this kind of stull for those very special case where it accepts to invalidates some marriages? I don’t know much in this area, but I hear people talking about it…

It’s only binding if valid. But do not think that if the person isn’t some ideal miraculously found soulmate, the sacrament is invalid. The sacrament is valid if the persons are fully informed, fully consenting, able to make vows binding the rest of their life and no impediments exist. Not when they are miraculously found soulmates.

 

[Eliza10]

Im a widower and I say yes without a doubt…

And you are 29!

I think some souls are meant for eachother. Some people marry for the wrong reasons… …They can “move on” as so many people say. Those who married because of finding there soulmate rarelly ever marry again and if they do its usually for services provided. Yet its never the same for them. The other does not understand you and can never understand you. A soulmate knows what the simplest sign means and can respond to it.

I for one feel Im still married, Im just a way for a short time and then we will be back together before God. The others will be alone before him, infinately content yet not quite complete.

It is a wonderful thing that your wife was such a soul mate, and that your love with her is still a comfort even though you have lost her, so young. I often feel I would much prefer a true love cut short by fate to what I had - an ill-fated match I was committed to forever, cut short by divorce after 19 years.

You love for your wife/soul mate reminds me of one of my all-time favorite books, A Severe Mercy by Sheldon VanAuken. Its a wonderful true love story, from a man’s perspective. He also loses his wife young, after a rich, loving marriage of true soul mates. Also a bonus are the author’s conversion from athesim, and some of his correspondance with with C.S.Lewis, and the chronicaling of their relationshiop with him.



Another favorite love story of soul mates, a marriage cut short by death but so rich in love it seemed long, is Catherine Marshall’s A Man Called Peter. That one is from the woman’s perspective, but, like the above, it is a well-loved book by many. Both books are often named people’s “favorties”.

So I think you might love these stories, too.

http://www.petermarshallministries..../4/images/category_279/item_1227/aman_130.jpg

I see they turned this beloved favorite into a movie! I really want to see this:
http://www.parentpreviews.com/movie-reviews/images/man_called_peter.jpg

 

[sacredcello]

Jesus also said that our Heavenly Father clothes the lilies in the field and feeds the birds, without their effort. Should I quit my job and just trust that God will provide me food and clothes?

I wouldn’t recommend it. Of course, you already have a job, it’s not like you are without a job and have been searching for years without any success, praying, seeking, and still nothing.

If I remember correctly, I think I encouraged you on another thread to sign up for AMS. Have you done it?

Don’t let my discouragement prevent you from trying; I think it’s a great site.

My comments about wanting to trust in God before I place my faith in friends, family, internet sites, were qualified by the fact that God can and does work through any of these avenues.

 

[valient_Lucy]

I wouldn’t recommend it. Of course, you already have a job, it’s not like you are without a job and have been searching for years without any success, praying, seeking, and still nothing.

If I remember correctly, I think I encouraged you on another thread to sign up for AMS. Have you done it?

Don’t let my discouragement prevent you from trying; I think it’s a great site.

My comments about wanting to trust in God before I place my faith in friends, family, internet sites, were qualified by the fact that God can and does work through any of these avenues.

I haven’t yet, partly because I need to pay for something else first before I can join. I’m still a little nervous about looking for love in the pseudo world, but I’m willing to join AMS or CatholicMatch, even if I don’t meet someone romantically, it would be nice to have a few Catholic friends. Besides, there’s no way that I’m going to meet someone in the next seven months.