Sour grapes... "o happy fault"!

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Pallas_Athene said:
But for an “omnipotent” being anything and everything can be actualized as long as it is not logically impossible.
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In a dynamic universe omnipotence without consistency leads to chaos. It is impossible for the laws of nature to cater for every contingency.
 
tonyrey said:
We know we are the result of evolution by Design.
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So you gave up with the story of Adam and Eve? One false claim is enough to question the validity of Genesis! And where in the scripture is claimed that we are the result of design?
tonyrey said:
Our power of reason is not the product of mindless molecules…
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Well. This has nothing to do with our discussion.
 
Bahman said:
We know we are the result of evolution by Design
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You have forgotten that the account of Creation is allegorical. There were no eye-witnesses! Do you believe the universe created itself?:whistle:
And where in the scripture is claimed that we are the result of design?
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God surely knows what He is doing… Or perhaps you don’t believe He does - or doesn’t exist - in which case you have a lot to explain!
Our power of reason is not the product of mindless molecules…
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Well. This has nothing to do with our discussion.
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It has everything to do with the origin of the universe and the human race. You cannot evade the issue like that. :tsktsk:
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tonyrey said:
You have forgotten that the account of Creation is allegorical. There were no eye-witnesses!
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We know that earth was formed and was not created as it is claimed in Geneses hence the claim of Geneses for creation of earth is false.
tonyrey said:
Do you believe the universe created itself?:whistle:
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How universe came to what we know now is subject of contemplation. We however know that the origin of universe cannot be the way as it is claimed in Geneses.
tonyrey said:
God surely knows what He is doing… Or perhaps you don’t believe He does - or doesn’t exist - in which case you have a lot to explain!
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Why he didn’t revealed how the act of creation is performed if he really knows it? Why Jesus didn’t revealed it if he is God?
tonyrey said:
It has everything to do with the origin of the universe and the human race. You cannot evade the issue like that. :tsktsk:
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We know the origin of Earth and life on it. We know that universe is huge and contains stars and planets. This is reality which has a serious conflict with what is claimed in Geneses hence Geneses is not words of God. Period.
 
I think I may have an answer for this, though it is not a Catholic one so perhaps my Catholic friends would kindly bear with me. Perhaps there is no world one could create where everything would be perfect, so the question then becomes is life still worth living? I think the Universe decided that yes it was even in spite of the pain, sorrow, etc that would undoubtedly follow because those experiences do not define us in the long run instead it is the love, kindness, and happy memories. However, I am coming from a rather odd point of view because I am a pandeist and I believe that systems of information can spontaneously become aware and that perhaps some universal intelligence like this is what we would call God. Be well friend.
 
Bahman said:
We know that earth was formed and was not created as it is claimed in Geneses hence the claim of Geneses for creation of earth is false.

How universe came to what we know now is subject of contemplation. We however know that the origin of universe cannot be the way as it is claimed in Geneses.

Why he didn’t revealed how the act of creation is performed if he really knows it? Why Jesus didn’t revealed it if he is God?

We know the origin of Earth and life on it. We know that universe is huge and contains stars and planets. This is reality which has a serious conflict with what is claimed in Geneses hence Geneses is not words of God. Period.
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You don’t seem to know the meaning of “allegorical”… 🤷
 
Bahman said:
. . . We know that universe is huge and contains stars and planets. This is reality which has a serious conflict with what is claimed in Geneses hence Geneses is not words of God. Period.
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To think of the universe as a collection of matter, space and time is only one way to conceptualize what this is all about. So, you have an idea of space as huge; that is not all there is to this. There is your reason, the fact that these words have meaning, that you feel, that you experience pain; there is God. Ultimately, there is an entire huge reality, of which you know almost nothing about by virtue of your perceptions and ideas. Genesis is 100% truth, but you just need the code that deciphers the message. The laws of physics will not open the door to its transcendent truth.
 
Wyrd said:
I think I may have an answer for this, though it is not a Catholic one so perhaps my Catholic friends would kindly bear with me. Perhaps there is no world one could create where everything would be perfect, so the question then becomes is life still worth living? I think the Universe decided that yes it was even in spite of the pain, sorrow, etc that would undoubtedly follow because those experiences do not define us in the long run instead it is the love, kindness, and happy memories. However, I am coming from a rather odd point of view because I am a pandeist and I believe that systems of information can spontaneously become aware and that perhaps some universal intelligence like this is what we would call God. Be well friend.
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In view of past remarks I doubt very much that the OP will be receptive to your suggestion…
 
Aloysium said:
To think of the universe as a collection of matter, space and time is only one way to conceptualize what this is all about. So, you have an idea of space as huge; that is not all there is to this. There is your reason, the fact that these words have meaning, that you feel, that you experience pain; there is God. Ultimately, there is an entire huge reality, of which you know almost nothing about by virtue of your perceptions and ideas. Genesis is 100% truth, but you just need the code that deciphers the message. The laws of physics will not open the door to its transcendent truth.
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👍 Materialism is self-destructive. Truth itself disappears from the scene!
 
tonyrey said:
I understand exactly what you mean. What does “allegorical” mean?
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1 : of, relating to, or having the characteristics of allegory
2: having hidden spiritual meaning that transcends the literal sense of a sacred text

This is the meaning of allegorical. Could you please elaborate what do you mean?
 
Aloysium said:
To think of the universe as a collection of matter, space and time is only one way to conceptualize what this is all about. So, you have an idea of space as huge; that is not all there is to this. There is your reason, the fact that these words have meaning, that you feel, that you experience pain; there is God.
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How did follow that there is a God?
Aloysium said:
Ultimately, there is an entire huge reality, of which you know almost nothing about by virtue of your perceptions and ideas.
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How do you know?
Aloysium said:
Genesis is 100% truth, but you just need the code that deciphers the message. The laws of physics will not open the door to its transcendent truth.
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Why Genesis should be written in a form that needs to be decoded by church authority? That is just an excuse to justify a false documents.
 
Bahman said:
How did follow that there is a God?
How do you know?
Why Genesis should be written in a form that needs to be decoded by church authority? That is just an excuse to justify a false documents.
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God is at the Centre of Reality as its Source and the final destination of our journey.
It has been revealed in scripture and through the church He established on earth.
The key is in our hearts. Those who have the willingness and determination to know, will understand. Seeds are planted, like birds swooping down, evil in the form of doubt, can scoop them from the soil in which they were meant to sprout. Shoo them away!
But, I understand you want to create your own truth. If that is all you want, that is all you will achieve.
 
Bahman said:
1 : of, relating to, or having the characteristics of allegory
2: having hidden spiritual meaning that transcends the literal sense of a sacred text

This is the meaning of allegorical. Could you please elaborate what do you mean?
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You agreed that a member of our species committed** the first crime **and then realised it was wrong - which is the spiritual meaning of the Adam and Eve story (in addition to Creation by God).
 
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