South Carolina, USA: Teacher at Catholic high school fired for pro-abortion posts on Facebook, lawsuit claims

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Wozza said:
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Wesrock:
You yourself said the amendment prevents the government from making laws that prohibit free speech.

Nowhere in this scenario is a government law prohibiting free speech.
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If the church organisation takes the matter to court (or is taken to court) then the first applies. Good luck in making any suggestion that contracts in law - subject to state legislation, are exempt.
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It wouldn’t be a first amendment issue. Generally it’s either a matter of whether it violates the Civil Rights Act or contract law or some other workplace law. The first amendment doesn’t apply to the private sphere.
 
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Wesrock said:
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Wozza:
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Wesrock:
You yourself said the amendment prevents the government from making laws that prohibit free speech.

Nowhere in this scenario is a government law prohibiting free speech.
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If the church organisation takes the matter to court (or is taken to court) then the first applies. Good luck in making any suggestion that contracts in law - subject to state legislation, are exempt.
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It wouldn’t be a first amendment issue. Generally it’s either a matter of whether it violates the Civil Rights Act or contract law.
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As I said, I’m no legal eagle, but it may contradict the Civil Rights, contract law AND the first. Which doesn’t put the church organisation is a good place.
 
There may be other things at play that could be an issue, but the First itself doesn’t apply to the private sphere. There is no CONSTITUTIONAL protection for free speech in private employment, but certain types of speech may still be protected by laws passed by federal, state, and local government.
 
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Wozza said:
As I said, I’m no legal eagle, but it may contradict the Civil Rights, contract law AND the first. Which doesn’t put the church organisation is a good place.
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As has been pointed out and you said yourself, the First Amendment only applies to the government making laws which prohibit exercise of free speech. This is clearly not a case of the government prohibiting free speech, but a private employer making stipulations in a contract and the employee violating those stipulations.

There could be a case for infringement of civil rights or violation of contract law, but not first amendment rights.
 
I don’t see an issue here. The teacher signed a contract agreeing not to engage in a certain action. What if, for instance, it were a business that had a contract stating that the employee is not to criticize the company in public, nor to post anything derogatory to the company’s interest on a social media website? Or agreeing not to promote the products of competitors publicly? Can a person not sign such an agreement? In so doing, they are agreeing not to speak or write in a certain manner. What makes it different when it’s an issue of speaking against the religion that a school promotes?
 
HomeschoolDad said:
I don’t see an issue here. The teacher signed a contract agreeing not to engage in a certain action. What if, for instance, it were a business that had a contract stating that the employee is not to criticize the company in public, nor to post anything derogatory to the company’s interest on a social media website? Or agreeing not to promote the products of competitors publicly? Can a person not sign such an agreement? In so doing, they are agreeing not to speak or write in a certain manner.
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We’re talking morality. Not best business practice.
 
I’m going to join a pro-abortion activist group like Planned Parenthood and demand they petition the government to end elective abortions.
I’m going to join a Sikh gurdwara and demand they preach Christianity.
 
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Wozza said:
But the contract itself seems to restrict her first ammendments rights:
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No, NO, and NO!!!

It is not possible for a private contract to do that. First Amendment rights are strictly with respect to government.

Any lawyer who tells you that a private entity can restrict first amendment rights, save for the specific case of the private entity acting on behalf of the government, so utterly misunderstands the law that he shouldn’t be practicing.
Wozza said:
It restricts her to aligning all her comments with Catholic teachings and scripture at all times and in all circumstances.
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The caselaw is overwhelming that such requirements may be made of the public life of persons in ministerial positions, including teachers.
Wozza said:
Are you American? What you said is not right. The first ammendment prevents the government from making laws that prohibit free speech. It has nothing whatsoever to do with preventing ‘the government’ from persecuting people.
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To American thinking, the government controlling speech IS persecution . . .
0Scarlett_nidiyilii said:
Why does a non-Catholic or anti-Catholic even want access to young Catholic minds? 🤨
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The answer, unfortunately, is obvious.

It is unfortunately even conceivable that this was planned before taking the job . . . it wouldn’t be the first such incident . . .
Wozza said:
. And if a private contract denies the freedom of expression then it may well contradict the first.
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Again, that is just plain not true, and contradicts all two hundred and thirty years of US constitutional law.
Wozza said:
I’m a layman in legal matters but it would seem to me that restricting public comments by virtue of a private contract denies basic freedom of speech.
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I am an attorney. Your position has no basis in the law, and directly contradicts it.

The first amendment does not protect “freedom of speech”. Rather, it prevents the government, and only the government, from silencing speech.

There might be other law that would attempt to protect speech in such a context, but that law, a government action, would violate the Free Exercise clause of the first amendment.
Wozza said:
If the church organisation takes the matter to court (or is taken to court) then the first applies.
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No. Again, you simply have no idea what the law actually provides.
Wozza said:
Good luck in making any suggestion that contracts in law - subject to state legislation, are exempt.
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I won’t need luck. The law is well settled. Enforcement of a contract is not limited in such a way.

I’m not sure whether you’re unable or unwilling to understand this basic legal concept, or are simply trolling at this point.

hawk, esq.
 
dochawk said:
I won’t need luck. The law is well settled. Enforcement of a contract is not limited in such a way.

I’m not sure whether you’re unable or unwilling to understand this basic legal concept, or are simply trolling at this point.

hawk, esq.
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Not trolling, hawk. Genuinely interested in the case. But that’s one thing about forums. We can all learn a little along the way. I defer to the greater knowledge being exhibited…
 
It seems from many of your thoughts regarding catholic teaching, there is usually a twist with clever wording. This is an example of a particular view of “morality” or church verses state pointing to discredit the churches freedom within the rights of our Constitution. Then there seems to be, as the discussion continues, a violation of the rules of the forum. It is possible these rules have not been read so a little quote from the section on facts regarding rules of the forum: 1. Messages should be short. Do not post lengthy replies (including replies that consist largely of quotes from an earlier message). Lengthy consecutive posts will be deleted.
 
If this teacher thinks she has a lottery ticket that will get her a big payout, she does need another lawyer. We had a similar case in our diocese about a teacher who wanted the diocese to pay for an in-vitro fertilization procedure. They didn’t even fire here; they just chose not to renew her contract. She was able to prevail when her lawyer convinced a jury that male teachers were not treated as harshly for violations of the morals clause in their contracts. She was awarded something like $2,000,000, but as usual, the case was settled during the appeals process. She was not allowed to return to teaching there.
 
ATraveller said:
I’m going to join a pro-abortion activist group like Planned Parenthood and demand they petition the government to end elective abortions.
I’m going to join a Sikh gurdwara and demand they preach Christianity.
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Of course. Suppose I take a job as campaign manager for almost any Democrat politician and make public statements supporting President Trump or almost any of his policies.
 
So why should children be scandalized by such postings…if the teacher leaves it on facebook and doesn’t bring it into the class it should be no big deal…sounds like parents are not monitoring their children’s use of the internet…this is a bigger issue the Bishop should be speaking out on.
 
And your brief response was well received. Since you are not in union with the Catholic church but are an Anglican, I realize it would be normal for you to look at some of our teachings from a different perspective. It would be worth your time to speak with an orthodox theologian or well educated, holy Catholic priest regarding views or beliefs you hold. The outcome might be a great journey for you and all.
 
Divine3 said:
And your brief response was well received. Since you are not in union with the Catholic church but are an Anglican, I realize it would be normal for you to look at some of our teachings from a different perspective. It would be worth your time to speak with an orthodox theologian or well educated, holy Catholic priest regarding views or beliefs you hold. The outcome might be a great journey for you and all.
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Cultural Anglican.

I note your encouragement for me to discuss things with well educated people.
 
Divine3 said:
And your brief response was well received. Since you are not in union with the Catholic church but are an Anglican, I realize it would be normal for you to look at some of our teachings from a different perspective. It would be worth your time to speak with an orthodox theologian or well educated, holy Catholic priest regarding views or beliefs you hold. The outcome might be a great journey for you and all.
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This is also what I would love to have. This is one of the reasons I frequent sites like this. But so far the results are not very satisfactory. Too frequently the reply is not just not helpful, but actively hostile.

There are too many people who consider any disagreement be hostile toward their belief system, and thus they respond in kind. I have no idea how to change this attitude.
 
IQ170 said:
There are too many people who consider any disagreement be hostile toward their belief system, and thus they respond in kind. I have no idea how to change this attitude.
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If you are sweet about it, the more reasonable member will likely respond in a similar manner.
 
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