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CentralFLJames
Guest
Nice Techno!
I too have a special following of St. Bridget. I am working the 15 prayer daily devotions and have about 6 months more to go.
James
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Techno2000
Guest
I finished the St. Bridget prayers about fifteen years ago, and I’m glad I did.Nice Techno!
I too have a special following of St. Bridget. I am working the 15 prayer daily devotions and have about 6 months more to go.
James
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Subrosa
Guest
Hi DCC and welcome to the forums!
WOW! Many questions! It is good that you ask. Some of these are tough for people to understand. Many of the Reformation tradition have serious issues with Catholic theology on Mary, for instance. Lets have a go…
BTW - It would be good if you could elaborate some questions instead of just a general questions, but if you don’t know what to ask, well, so be it.
Mary - Mary is a saint in heaven and she is a woman, a created creature of the Lord. Therefore Catholics do not worship her. The Church holds her up as a perfect example of obedience to God and a model to follow. I’m sure there are other questions, but not here right now.
Priestly celebacy - A tradition started by Paul, (1 Corinthians 7: 25-31, 36-40) and taught by Christ (Matthew 19:12) The Catholic Church has embraced this thinking. The ordained and vowed are “married” to Christ in His ministry.
Sacraments - These will be a bit strange to you because Baptists and Catholics think differently about them. Baptism is called and ORDINANCE by Baptists and must be done after the age of reason, the water being symbolic of acceptance. Baptism is called a SACRAMENT by the Catholic Church because we believe it actually does something. Let me make this clear. It is NOT the water that does anything, but the Holy Spirit using the water to do something. This is how all sacraments are considered. This is why we have infant baptism because we do not believe that the Holy Spirit requires any consent by the person being baptised in order to do whatever He does.
Traditions - We consider (some) Traditions to be given us by Christ and handed down to us by the Apostles. These are called Apostolic Tradition. They hold equal weight with the bible, which is why we are not bible only christians (YES! We ARE Christians!
) Confession to a priest is a good example (John 20:23)Faith alone vs. faith and works, or works salvation - Catholics DO NOT have a works salvation doctrine. That being said, we don’t have a faith alone salvation doctrine. You can accuse us of having a Grace alone doctrine because we believe that we enter the kingdom only through God’s grace. Justification is achieved by Faith being expressed by Works. The two need to be together in order to be effective (James all of chapter 2, Eph 2:8-10)
I’m sure you can start asking some questions by now. Feel free to open up, the floor is yours!
God bless you, DCC, for coming here to ask questions.
Subrosa
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CentralFLJames
Guest
Subrosa - great dialog. But just a minor correction on a point you made about baptism. We Catholics do believe that God always requires consent just as Mary was the first to receive the work of the Holy Spirit in her when she said ‘let it be done to me according to your word’. God may knock gently or He may knock loudly but He never imposes. In infant baptism the parents and god parents have authority and responsibility for the child and God recognizes this and permits them to give the consent on behalf of the child. That original proxied consent is perfected and ratified later by that child when it is taugh the faith and is of age during the time of confirmation. The Church feels that even though a child not of age can not consciously consent to sin it still has original sin and it is better to remove this sin and start the child early with the grace of the Holy Spirit that we all first receive at Baptism. Over the life of the individual grows with the Holy Spirit’s grace to produce its fruits and gifts.
James
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AliciaCL
Guest
I hate to throw another wrinkle in here about salvation but I think it a nice and uniquely Catholic one. We have the doctrine of redemptive suffering. It’s been around since the beginning but John Paul II write a nice Apostolic Letter on it, Salvi Doris, if my Italian is right. We believe even after sins are forgiven, the person has to “pay for” it; they or others must burn off the temporal punishment for the sins. Analogy: if you injure somebody who forgives you, you still have to pay their medical bills, worry about their recovery, etc. We can make payments by quietly “offering up” our own sufferings which we experience on earth (physical, emotional) for the benefit of others. This doctrine brings peace to many who suffer as they can understand that there can be purpose in their suffering. People can “offer up” sufferings for us, or we can be purified by waiting to get into heaven in purgatory. We can pray for souls in purgatory to help them too.
I just finished reading the Diary of Saint Faustina, a Polish nun who died in 1939. Extremely profound and very mystical. Jesus came to her aksing her to be his secretary for the world, to tell the world how much he wants sinners and is overflowing with unfathomable mercy for them. He trained her to suffer for sinners on earth so that they could be saved. He taught her true humility and to approach Jesus with childlike simplicity. She became very Christlike in purity. She experienced Jesus’ Passion many times but without outward signs to other people. Her prayer saved many many souls. Sister Faustina’s mission was to tell the world that Jesus’ mercy is unfathomable, to urge sinners to come to him and to encourge others to pray for sinners. Now the church has adopted the feast of Divine Mercy Sunday after Easter wherein all the church prays for the salvation of all sinners in the world for their salvation (souls in purgatory included I think). In my view this doctrine isn’t stressed enough in the church.
I just finished reading the Diary of Saint Faustina, a Polish nun who died in 1939. Extremely profound and very mystical. Jesus came to her aksing her to be his secretary for the world, to tell the world how much he wants sinners and is overflowing with unfathomable mercy for them. He trained her to suffer for sinners on earth so that they could be saved. He taught her true humility and to approach Jesus with childlike simplicity. She became very Christlike in purity. She experienced Jesus’ Passion many times but without outward signs to other people. Her prayer saved many many souls. Sister Faustina’s mission was to tell the world that Jesus’ mercy is unfathomable, to urge sinners to come to him and to encourge others to pray for sinners. Now the church has adopted the feast of Divine Mercy Sunday after Easter wherein all the church prays for the salvation of all sinners in the world for their salvation (souls in purgatory included I think). In my view this doctrine isn’t stressed enough in the church.
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Ted_in_Charlott
Guest
Hello DC and 777. I am a former adult Sunday School teacher that became Catholic Easter 2006. I would say I find my Catholic faith much richer and full. Please attend a RCIA class this fall and maybe go to see a priest near to you this summer.
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CentralFLJames
Guest
I agree but to those of us who follow the Divine Mercy Devotion of St. Faustina its is very clear that it catching on like wild fire. Some priests are afraid to fully embrace it since it has certain nuances of universal salvation since Jesus reveals through St. Faustina that His Mercy wins out over God’s Justice and that makes it extraordinarily powerful. But there is still no universal salvation. Even though Catholics in good standing can invoke the unfathomable Divine Mercy graces on the worst of sinners and unbelievers they still must chose to respond to that grace and be baptised either by supernatural desire or by the sacrament into The Church to be saved.
James
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puzzleannie
Guest
howdy and yee-haah
two EWTN programs you may enjoy are Journey Home, interviews with Protestants of various denoms who have become Catholic (some of them were even ministers in their own churches). the other is Crash Course in Catholicism, a quick easy to understand intro of the basics. when you are ready for the heavy hitters, watch Fr. Corapi.
two EWTN programs you may enjoy are Journey Home, interviews with Protestants of various denoms who have become Catholic (some of them were even ministers in their own churches). the other is Crash Course in Catholicism, a quick easy to understand intro of the basics. when you are ready for the heavy hitters, watch Fr. Corapi.
J
joyfulseraph
Guest
Hey there. 
I myself am on a discovery of the catholic church. A few things I would just like to say. I had never thought I’d actually be interested in the catholic church. I used to be against it, and now I find myself defending it a little *. I went to a Lutheran church & school for 3 years when I was a kid, and I’ve been in and out of various protestant churches in the past.
One thing that started my acceptance of catholicism a little was how close I noticed the Lutheran churches were to it. Their services are similar. I thought, “If Lutherans can worship/believe that way, it must be okay, after all it is protestant” So anything that seemed traditional like in Lutheranism, or close in belief with catholicism, it’s easier to accept at first. And then…you wonder, well why did it take over 1500 years for the truth to come to Luther? this doesn’t seem right!
I’m still trying to “dive into” early church history, but I do believe it’s really helpful to study it.
This is one verse that caught by attention. I had never noticed it much before. Matthew 16:18 - And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
A main thing that I can not accept much anymore is sola scriptura. It doesn’t make any sense. What if someone can’t read? I can’t really describe my other thoughts at the moment about sola scriptura, sorry.
And about the faith alone thing. To me, faith and works sounds a bit correct so far because in James it says faith without works is dead and we are justified by works and not by faith alone. I think there really is no difference much between protestant and catholics in this area, only a difference in the use of words. Any good protestant knows that “just believing” isn’t enough, we actually do things for others, we follow what God wants, right?
In many verses, it points out that we are saved, *are being saved and will be *saved. I think it’s interesting, because it shows that we aren’t totally saved yet.
This verse was interesting to me as well…it says the greatest is love, not faith. (faith is still important of course! you can’t please God without it) 1 Cor. 13:13 And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.
Some books to read:
scripturecatholic.com
On EWTN there is a show called “The Journey Home” it’s very good! People tell their stories of “coming home” to the catholic church. It’s on Monday nights, 8 PM EST.
Well, this is all I can say for now. Good luck with your search.*
I myself am on a discovery of the catholic church. A few things I would just like to say. I had never thought I’d actually be interested in the catholic church. I used to be against it, and now I find myself defending it a little *. I went to a Lutheran church & school for 3 years when I was a kid, and I’ve been in and out of various protestant churches in the past.One thing that started my acceptance of catholicism a little was how close I noticed the Lutheran churches were to it. Their services are similar. I thought, “If Lutherans can worship/believe that way, it must be okay, after all it is protestant” So anything that seemed traditional like in Lutheranism, or close in belief with catholicism, it’s easier to accept at first. And then…you wonder, well why did it take over 1500 years for the truth to come to Luther? this doesn’t seem right!
I’m still trying to “dive into” early church history, but I do believe it’s really helpful to study it.
This is one verse that caught by attention. I had never noticed it much before. Matthew 16:18 - And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
A main thing that I can not accept much anymore is sola scriptura. It doesn’t make any sense. What if someone can’t read? I can’t really describe my other thoughts at the moment about sola scriptura, sorry.
And about the faith alone thing. To me, faith and works sounds a bit correct so far because in James it says faith without works is dead and we are justified by works and not by faith alone. I think there really is no difference much between protestant and catholics in this area, only a difference in the use of words. Any good protestant knows that “just believing” isn’t enough, we actually do things for others, we follow what God wants, right?
In many verses, it points out that we are saved, *are being saved and will be *saved. I think it’s interesting, because it shows that we aren’t totally saved yet.
This verse was interesting to me as well…it says the greatest is love, not faith. (faith is still important of course! you can’t please God without it) 1 Cor. 13:13 And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.
Some books to read:
- The Biblical Basis for the Catholic Faith by John Salza
- Where is that in the bible? by Patrick Madrid
- Why is that in tradition? by Patrick Madrid
scripturecatholic.com
On EWTN there is a show called “The Journey Home” it’s very good! People tell their stories of “coming home” to the catholic church. It’s on Monday nights, 8 PM EST.
Well, this is all I can say for now. Good luck with your search.*
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Pixie_Dust
Guest
Early Christian Writings by Maxwell Staniforth is a good, easy to read English translation of the ECFs.
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Pani_Rose
Guest
A bunch of folks - we have chatted together some of for 8 years now - we did the St. Bridget prayers every night for three years online in voice chat. It was truly a blessing. We saw so many miracles in the lives of people.I finished the St. Bridget prayers about fifteen years ago, and I’m glad I did.
po18guy
Well-known member
God’s Grace through faith. Period. However, so much of scripture speaks of a lively faith leading to corporal works of mercy. “The poor you will always have with you and you may do good unto them whenever you wish”, “As often as you did this to one of my least brethren, you did it to me” Etc. James said that faith without works is dead. So, how are we to expect an eternal reward if our faith is dead? He is the vine and we are the branches. Faith makes us a branch. But, if that branch does not produce good fruit, it will be cut off and burned. The branch exists because of its belief. But, it must produce.
Revelation 20 tells us that we will be judged according to what we did. The Lord knows our hearts, right? If our hearts are correctly disposed, what we did with our faith is the judging point.
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Holly3278
Guest
Just so you know, we are not saved by faith alone and this can be proved using a single Bible verse:
Jas 2:24 RSV You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.
Jas 2:24 KJV Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
God bless!
Jas 2:24 RSV You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.
Jas 2:24 KJV Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
God bless!
O
Odell
Guest
I think you should really look into how both protestants and Catholics view the fall of Adam and Eve
Then will you understand this is the core of our differences
catholicdefense.googlepages.com/article.htm
this web site helped me with the whole concept
it is Catholic Dudes page on justification you should take the time to read it
just to wet your wiskers here is an insert
Catholics understand the fall of Adam to be first and foremost the loss of Adam’s original "holiness and justice.” As mentioned above this is commonly known today as sanctifying grace and was an added gift by God, not part of human nature itself, thus when it was lost human nature was not corrupted, though it suffered serious physical and spiritual consequences. Protestants see the fall of Adam as a corruption of human nature (which is far more devastating than the Catholic understanding) which included the disease of concupiscence which for Protestants is itself sin.
In the Catholic model above I described original sin as the lack of gasoline in a car, in the Protestant model it is as if the car was totaled in a severe car wreck. In the Catholic model God is displeased with the car not operating at potential, in the Protestant model God is displeased because the car is literally a corrupt mass of metal with only slight evidence it is still a car.
Finally it should be noted that the Catholic model teaches man can still do “natural good” but apart from grace cannot do supernaturally pleasing works in God’s sight. While the Protestant model logically means man cannot do even “natural good,” none the less Protestants insist man is not ‘as evil as he could be’ and the middle quote above they teach man has in some weakened sense the ability to do some "natural good.” Given that we see non-Christians doing good works like giving to charity, caring for their family, being an upright citizen, etc, this good is purely on the natural level and apart from grace these good works are unable to rise to the supernaturally good level which God’s standards require. The Catholic model does a far better and clearer job of explaining why man is not as evil as he could possibly be, because his nature is not corrupt.
hope this helps
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neophyte
Guest
Because our faith sprung out of Judaism, it’s important to grasp the Jewish understanding of “faith”.
Look at the entymology of the Hebrew words for faith. Aman is translated as “believe”, “trust”, “have faith”, and also “support”, “nourish”, and “make lasting”. A derivative word is omenat, meaning “pillars” or “supports of the door” as in 2 Kings 18:16. Another cognate is emunah, which is “faithfulness” or “trust”, as in Exodus 17:12 where God brought victory to Israel as long as Moses would hold his hands up. Aaron and Hur held up his hands so that they “remained emunah until sundown”.
All of these illustrate that faith is an action that we take, it’s something that we *do *and not merely about what we believe. Thus the Apostle Paul says in Romans 1:5 “Through Him we have received the grace of apostleship, to bring about the obedience of faith…”
It’s important to understand that the Catholic view is not that we are a spirit stuck in a body, or a composite of a body, a soul and a spirit as is commonly held among Protestants. God created us as a body/soul unity, not two things stuck together but one whole. As we pray with our minds using words, so we also pray with our bodies using actions. As we submit to God with our wills, so we also submit with our deeds. Thus, to speak of “faith” as though it’s separate from “works” is schizophrenic.
Faith is a work - a work that we are able to do only by the grace of God.
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