Southern Baptist Al Mohler...read for yourself.

[Tommy999]

True.

So, no worries about being led astray? Where ever we end up is where God wants us to be?

I didn’t say that, Steve.

One must always seek God’s truth to not be lead astray by un-Christian groups like the Jehovah’s Witnesses and other cults. I pray for wisdom and discernment from the Lord every day.

There are no worries about being led astray so long as we are following Christ and seeking God’s direction, will, and purpose for our lives. God has a plan for each of us and it is not the same plan for each, nor is it always in the same denomination. Notice how in the article it says that the parents of these boys are still faithful Southern Baptists despite the conversion of their sons to other Christian faith traditions.

I am still discerning if the Catholic faith is for me. If I decide to convert, it won’t be because I think Catholicism is better or is “the truth” whereas protestant denominations are inferior or “un-Christian”. It will be because it is where I feel my faith can be even more enhanced in the Lord and where God is leading me to be.

 

[MaryT777]

A ‘great bible teacher’ would know that the Bible originated in the Catholic Church.

 

[SteveVH]

I didn’t say that, Steve.

Originally Posted by Tommy999
Unlike some, I believe God will lead you to where He wants you to be and that isn’t always the Roman Catholic Church for everyone in all cases.

There are no worries about being led astray so long as we are following Christ and seeking God’s direction, will, and purpose for our lives. God has a plan for each of us and it is not the same plan for each, nor is it always in the same denomination.

Then why did Christ pray for unity? How many Churches do you believe he founded? Different denominations mean different and many times, conflicting beliefs. Is this what Christ intended?

I am still discerning if the Catholic faith is for me. If I decide to convert, it won’t be because I think Catholicism is “better” or is “the truth” whereas protestant denominations are inferior. It will be because it is where I feel my faith can be even more enhanced in the Lord.

After attending a non-denominational funeral for a friend of ours, my daughter thanked me for raising her in the Catholic Church. She did mention that the pastor had some good things to say. I told her, it is not so much what the other Christian communities have that is wrong, but rather what they don’t have.

Blessing on your journey!

Steve

 

[Thorolfr]

“We are losing far too many evangelical young people as they reach older ages because they are simply not adequately grounded theologically in the Christian faith,” Mohler said. “They may go to vacation Bible school, and they may go to Sunday school, but the question is, are they really grounded in the Christian faith? Are they well-grounded in the beauty of Scripture? Are they well-grounded in a knowledge of the deep theological convictions that define us as Christians?”

Mohler said the article comes as “judgment upon all those who missed the opportunity and failed in the responsibility to ground these young boys as they were then in the Christian faith, in the truth and the beauty of evangelical Christian doctrine, in the theological principles that based upon long biblical consideration and the long argument of the church have meant the differences between the Roman Catholic Church and evangelical Christianity — the differences between the understanding of a Scripture-centered Christianity and one that is centered in the sacraments, as is the Roman Catholic system, and at least much of Anglicanism.”

The way that Mohler talks, I get the feeling that he doesn’t think that Catholics and Anglicans are even real Christians.

As someone who was raised Southern Baptist and now belongs to a Lutheran church, I’m so glad to not be a Southern Baptist anymore. Like the two boys who left their Baptist church, I really appreciate being in a church that has a traditional liturgy and follows a liturgical calendar. In my Lutheran church we have readings every Sunday from the Revised Common Lectionary (usually Old Testament, Psalms, Epistle, Gospel) which is almost identical to the lecionary used in the Catholic Church and I’ve actually learned a lot more of what’s in the Bible since I joined my Lutheran church than what I did as a Baptist. The Lord’s Supper is also an important part of the service every Sunday in my Lutheran church whereas in a Baptist church they usually do it about once a month or less.

 

[Indifferently]

The way that Mohler talks, I get the feeling that he doesn’t think that Catholics and Anglicans are even real Christians. /QUOTE]

It’s fairly standard in Calvinist/Reformed circles to teach that the RCC is a false church and people in it who are saved are saved despite the teachings and practices of the RCC, not because of them. Mohler probably believes this.

 

[steve_b]

The point I was trying to make is that they claim to be Bible based, but seem to ignore a lot of it.

true

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

Dr Mohler seems opposed to sense, as if you cannot have sense and the bible. You cannot have beauty and theology. God and Nature being united. His own misunderstanding I suppose.

 

[steve_b]

I didn’t say that, Steve.

One must always seek God’s truth to not be lead astray by un-Christian groups like the Jehovah’s Witnesses and other cults. I pray for wisdom and discernment from the Lord every day.

There are no worries about being led astray so long as we are following Christ and seeking God’s direction, will, and purpose for our lives.

Christ isn’t the author of all the division we see. Satan is the author of THAT.

Our Lord established one and ONLY one Church in the 1st century… The Catholic Church **#34 **

Read the internal links provided in that link

Hopefully that helps you on your journey
T:

God has a plan for each of us and it is not the same plan for each, nor is it always in the same denomination.

There are NO denominations in Our Lord’s Church. That’s because division from Our Lord’s Church is condemned in scripture as are those who do it. Again, see the internal links in the link I provided for references properly referenced. Our Lord established one Church. He gave all His promises to it. It’s the pillar and foundation of truth. It’s the Catholic Church. #34

People talk about doing God’s will all the time. Well…Division from His Church is not in Our Lord’s will nor is it doing Our Lord’s will. John 17:20-23 .

Fact is, division from Our Lord’s Church will disinherit one from Our Lord’s will. See the internal links in that link provided for the references
T:

Notice how in the article it says that the parents of these boys are still faithful Southern Baptists despite the conversion of their sons to other Christian faith traditions.

John Smyth started the Baptist religion in the 1700’s. He broke away from the Anglicans who broke away from the Catholic Church. Is that okay with Jesus? Nope! And you have Our Lord’s quote.

BTW, the Catholic Church converted England in the first place. Then Henry VIII broke from the chair of Peter, and made himself head of the Church of England. Scripture condemns that stuff and those who do it.
T:

I am still discerning if the Catholic faith is for me.

prayers ascending for your journey
T:

If I decide to convert, it won’t be because I think Catholicism is better or is “the truth” whereas protestant denominations are inferior or “un-Christian”.

The only reason to convert is because it’s true. And it can be proven to be true.

Take a look at the following. The Great Heresies.

Every one of those heresies listed is by definition, populated by “Christians”. The CCC states

2089"*Heresy *is the obstinate post-baptismal denial of some truth which must be believed with divine and catholic faith, or it is likewise an obstinate doubt concerning the same;

Catch that? to be in heresy, one has to already be baptised.

BTW, No one is saying Protestants aren’t Christian… …
T:

It will be because it is where** I feel** my faith can be even more enhanced in the Lord and where God is leading me to be.

Feelings can be highly unreliable, fickled, transitory, and dead wrong. Search for THE TRUTH.

 

[Thorolfr]

John Smyth started the Baptist religion in the 1700’s. He broke away from the Anglicans who broke away from the Catholic Church. Is that okay with Jesus? Nope! And you have Our Lord’s quote.

You have your dates a little off there. John Smythe was born about 1570 and died in 1612. I know this because my own direct paternal ancestor who was born about 1611 and lived in Puritan New England was suspected of being a Baptist since he would turn his back in church whenever they baptized infants. He was consequently fined and sentenced by the county magistrates to be whipped.

 

[steve_b]

You have your dates a little off there. John Smythe was born about 1570 and died in 1612. I know this because my own direct paternal ancestor who was born about 1611 and lived in Puritan New England was suspected of being a Baptist since he would turn his back in church whenever they baptized infants. He was consequently fined and sentenced by the county magistrates to be whipped.

My bad. I meant to say the 1600’s not 1700’s.

 

[Cider]

What I can’t understand is why “Bible” based churches refuse to believe in the Eucharist. Jesus said “This is My Body” and “This is My Blood” in three Gospels. He tells how His Body and Blood are real food in John. The disciples on the road to Jericho don’t recognize Jesus until He breaks Bread. I’m just a dumb ol’ country boy, but the Institution of the Eucharist is pretty clear to me.

As a child when I went to the Baptist church with childhood friends, they had their version of the eucharist. I’m sure you already know that it wasn’t considered the body and blood of Christ but a symbol done in remembrance.

I was never a Baptist, I was baptized and confirmed in the Catholic church as an adult.

 

[Cider]

baptistnews.com/faith/theology/item/29880-mohler-says-churches-to-blame-when-youth-leave-the-fold

From the link

“We are losing far too many evangelical young people as they reach older ages because they are simply not adequately grounded theologically in the Christian faith,” Mohler said. “They may go to vacation Bible school, and they may go to Sunday school, but the question is, are they really grounded in the Christian faith? Are they well-grounded in the beauty of Scripture? Are they well-grounded in a knowledge of the deep theological convictions that define us as Christians?”

His statements are just mind boggling to me. These grown men are Christians. He’s acting like they became atheists or something. Christianity isn’t defined by Calvinism or Luther.

 

[onenow1]

From the linkHis statements are just mind boggling to me. These grown men are Christians. He’s acting like they became atheists or something. Christianity isn’t defined by Calvinism or Luther.

It really boggles the mind that, all denominations that preach Christ; and this includes some Catholics, that have left the one true Church. I would just remind all, one of the first followers Judas, left Jesus Christ and His Church. Not all but some seem not to want to connect the dots, or even look more deeply for the connection. Jesus battled for the truth to be known when He blinded Paul. What happened ? I think pride hit the fork in the road during the reformation and is still waiting, for more opportunities at the fork.

God Bless

 

[Indifferently]

From the link

His statements are just mind boggling to me. These grown men are Christians. He’s acting like they became atheists or something. Christianity isn’t defined by Calvinism or Luther.

The Apostle Paul writes:
But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

• Gal. 1:8-9
  Paul then goes on to assert the doctrine of justification by faith alone against the false teachers of the Galatian church, who attempt to add works of obedience to the Mosaic law as necessary for salvation. Reformed and Calvinistic Baptist Christians argue that the Church of Rome attempts also to add works of obedience (of another kind, certainly) to the gospel as necessary for salvation. Thus, according to Mohler and many other believers, to leave a church which teaches the doctrine of justification by faith alone for a communion which condemns it is an act of apostasy.

 

[steve_b]

It really boggles the mind that, all denominations that preach Christ; and this includes some Catholics, that have left the one true Church. I would just remind all, one of the first followers Judas, left Jesus Christ and His Church. Not all but some seem not to want to connect the dots, or even look more deeply for the connection. Jesus battled for the truth to be known when He blinded Paul. What happened ? I think pride hit the fork in the road during the reformation and is still waiting, for more opportunities at the fork.

God Bless

In addition

Re: the -]Protestant reformation/-] Protestant deformation and revolt from the Catholic Church, it’s interesting to note, that before Luther was even born (1483) the Catholic Church already had held 17 ecumenical councils not to mention all the local and regional councils since Pentecost. The Church has always monitored herself and reformed herself globally. CATHOLIC LIBRARY: The 21 Ecumenical Councils

 

[steve_b]

The Apostle Paul writes:
But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

• Gal. 1:8-9
  Paul then goes on to assert the doctrine of justification by faith -]alone/-] against the false teachers of the Galatian church, who attempt to add works of obedience to the Mosaic law as necessary for salvation. Reformed and Calvinistic Baptist Christians argue that the Church of Rome attempts also to add works of obedience (of another kind, certainly) to the gospel as necessary for salvation. Thus, according to Mohler and many other believers, to leave a church which teaches the doctrine of justification by faith alone for a communion which condemns it is an act of apostasy.

Every heretic and schismatic in history used that argument in one way shape or form.

Even Luther admitted he added “alone” to scripture where “alone” wasn’t used.
http://www.iclnet.org/pub/resources/text/wittenberg/luther/luther-translate.txt

And how did Luther justify himself for adding alone?

He said

“(I will it, I command it; my will is reason enough) For we are not going to become students and followers of the papists. Rather we will become their judge and master. We, too, are going to be proud and brag with these blockheads; and just as St. Paul brags against his madly raving saints, I will brag over these asses of mine! They are doctors? Me too. They are scholars? I am as well. They are philosophers? And I. They are dialecticians? I am too. They are lecturers? So am I. They write books? So do I. I will go even further with my bragging: I can exegete the psalms and the prophets, and they cannot. I can translate, and they cannot. I can read Holy Scriptures, and they cannot. I can pray, they cannot.”

and

"Returning to the issue at hand, if your Papist wishes to make a great fuss about the word “alone” (sola), say this to him: “Dr. Martin Luther will have it so and he says that a papist and an *** are the same thing.”

and

“when I inserted the word “solum” (alone) in Rom. 3 as the text itself, and St. Paul’s meaning, urgently necessitated and demanded it. He is dealing with the main point of Christian doctrine in this passage - namely that we are justified by faith in Christ without any works of the Law. In fact, he rejects all works so completely as to say that the works of the Law, though it is God’s law and word, do not aid us in justification. Using Abraham as an example, he argues that Abraham was so justified without works that even the highest work, which had been commanded by God, over and above all others, namely circumcision, did not aid him in justification.”

As an aside, Luther confuses “works” and “works of law” and “good works” and “obedience” to God. Abraham was justified by his works James 2:21. He obeyed God when he would have sacrificed Issac unless the angel stopped him. Circumcision was NOT even part of the equation so why does Luther bring it up?. I think we know why. Luther had a problem with obedience. It’s just one of the reasons Luther named the book of James an epistle of straw.

Luther was also the height of arrogance. No one could speak German, only he could. Really? Don’t take my word for it, read him for yourself.

 

[Thorolfr]

In addition

Re: the -]Protestant reformation/-] Protestant deformation and revolt from the Catholic Church, it’s interesting to note, that before Luther was even born (1483) the Catholic Church already had held 17 ecumenical councils not to mention all the local and regional councils since Pentecost. The Church has always monitored herself and reformed herself globally. CATHOLIC LIBRARY: The 21 Ecumenical Councils

Most professional historians would not agree that the Catholic Church of the 4th century was the same as the churches of the 1st and 2nd centuries. There were many different churches with many different views about who Jesus was in the early period and what became the Catholic Church is only the one that won out and suppressed the others and revised the history of the preceding centuries.

 

[SteveVH]

Most professional historians would not agree that the Catholic Church of the 4th century was the same as the churches of the 1st and 2nd centuries. There were many different churches with many different views about who Jesus was in the early period and what became the Catholic Church is only the one that won out and suppressed the others and revised the history of the preceding centuries.

Many professional historians? Such as…? Where is your evidence for this position? If you are correct then the Church that Christ founded did not prevail and Jesus either lied or was, himself, mistaken.

 

[Per_Crucem]

Most professional historians would not agree that the Catholic Church of the 4th century was the same as the churches of the 1st and 2nd centuries. There were many different churches with many different views about who Jesus was in the early period and what became the Catholic Church is only the one that won out and suppressed the others and revised the history of the preceding centuries.

This is to ignore actual Christian history, Thorolfr, in favor of the Dan Brown method of Chistian history… which is to immediately and promptly make it up as you go along in order to push forward a narrative that advances an agenda.

 

[pnewton]

Most professional historians would not agree that the Catholic Church of the 4th century was the same as the churches of the 1st and 2nd centuries. There were many different churches with many different views about who Jesus was in the early period and what became the Catholic Church is only the one that won out and suppressed the others and revised the history of the preceding centuries.

I do not know when you think this changed, but the Holy Spirit sure didn’t do much to guide the Church if he failed in the first half dozen generations. At least you are not like some that think the Church went awry as soon as John passed away.