Speak Up or Shut Up?

[Mrs_Sally]

The poster who suggested you ask for guidance from HR on how to handle these sorts of remarks in the future was spot on. I would also suggest you work on ways of expressing yourself in general that are not so confrontational. Yes, the man made stupid remarks. But that doesn’t mean you need to engage him in an argument. “A soft answer turns away wrath” is a verse both you and your friend should know.

In that case of this specific conversation a simple answer like “Most historic spots in the Middle East have religious significance” would have been enough. If these guys are chuckling and high-fiving each other over their ‘clever’ remarks, not much you could say in a lunch room conversation will change their minds.

Pray for this man and others like him. His willfulness and ignorance will not serve him well. But becoming angry and aggresive toward him will not serve you well either.

 

[catharina]

Greetings All,

**I’m in a bit of a quandary. I’m personally debating how badly I stepped out of line at work. **During lunch today, a friend and I were having having a meal in the cafeteria and we were approached by a ranking officer of the company. My friend is an obviously religious and devout Orthodox Jew and everyone at the company aware of this. **As my friend travelled to Israel, he was asked by this ranking officer what places would be good to visit. **My companion said that Jerusalem was a wonderful place to visit because it contains historical elements for 3 major religions. The person responded (and I’m paraphrasinng here):

I’m not religious. I don’t believe any of that non-sense. Religion is the cause of all wars.

I guess I was being a touchy because I asked if he can provide the evidence for his comment because I found what he said to be quite disparaging to religious people. I cited that the according to the Encyclopedia of Wars, only 7% of wars are religious based. To which he responded that is also non-sense and that ‘eveyone knows religion causes all wars.’ Of course, the situation degenerated from there and we exchanged a number of comments with each other.

I did ask for him to apologize for his improper blanket statement, to which he refused. Unfortunately, I wasn’t successful in diffusing the situation and I couldn’t convince him that such statements are offensive to religious people. Now, I’m debating about going to the human resources department because this isn’t the first time this sort of statement has been presented by him. I wanted to make a stand as I’m tired of keeping silent when people (especially ranking officers) denigrate religion and Christianity openly at work.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Please read your initial post again.
Pay special attention to the bolded parts.

My advice? You were clearly out of line.
Your own conscience seems to be telling you that.
If you approach HR, they will tell you that you were out of line.
Do NOT complain to HR for an issue that you clearly caused.
Look for a new job.

You were looking for a fight.
You found one.

You alienated a person at work regarding religion.

 

[Soldier_Of_God]

Please read your initial post again.
Pay special attention to the bolded parts.

My advice? You were clearly out of line.
Your own conscience seems to be telling you that.
If you approach HR, they will tell you that you were out of line.
Do NOT complain to HR for an issue that you clearly caused.
Look for a new job.

You were looking for a fight.
You found one.

You alienated a person at work regarding religion.

I understand your (name removed by moderator)ut is intended to assist me. However, given the antagonism in your comments regarding my response and the fact the other individual appears to be blameless (due to lack of critical comment on your part) I can help but think this is a personal opportunity to fume at something. In the spirit of your advice, I cordially ask that you cease (name removed by moderator)ut into my question as it is no longer desired. Thank you and have a nice day.

 

[Rascalking]

Please read your initial post again.
Pay special attention to the bolded parts.

My advice? You were clearly out of line.
Your own conscience seems to be telling you that.
If you approach HR, they will tell you that you were out of line.
Do NOT complain to HR for an issue that you clearly caused.
Look for a new job.

You were looking for a fight.
You found one.

You alienated a person at work regarding religion.

I thought that but didn’t want to say it. Enough of the people here don’t want advice, they want affirmation.

Besides, enough people already don’t like me here.

 

[catharina]

The poster who suggested you ask for guidance from HR on how to handle these sorts of remarks in the future was spot on. I would also suggest you work on ways of expressing yourself in general that are not so confrontational. Yes, the man made stupid remarks. But that doesn’t mean you need to engage him in an argument. “A soft answer turns away wrath” is a verse both you and your friend should know.

In that case of this specific conversation a simple answer like “Most historic spots in the Middle East have religious significance” would have been enough. If these guys are chuckling and high-fiving each other over their ‘clever’ remarks, not much you could say in a lunch room conversation will change their minds.

Pray for this man and others like him. His willfulness and ignorance will not serve him well. **But becoming angry and aggresive toward him will not serve you well **either.

Mrs. Sally (and to revert jen also):

It would have been more than sufficient to state:
“I disagree with that opinion.”

Instead the OP demanded “evidence” for the obnoxious remark.
In itself, that is obnoxious!

Then to demand an apology?
Outrageous.

Also, you do work in the USA, OP, don't you?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Mrs. Sally, yes.  Such anger does not serve the Church well either.

 

[Soldier_Of_God]

Also, you do work in the USA, OP, don’t you?

No, I work in Canada.

 

[silicasandra]

I thought that but didn’t want to say it. Enough of the people here don’t want advice, they want affirmation.

Besides, enough people already don’t like me here.

Aw, I like you! I appreciate that you have such a calm approach to things. Not all of us are so lucky.

I have been in similar situations to the OP, where I let my temper get the best of me. I would say work on that for now and not necessarily drag HR into it (of course, if yours is really good, then that would be something else. I’m just remembering my time in the corporate world and our HR was horrible, horrible, horrible…) The guy shouldn’t have said what he said, and showed a great deal of ignorance in saying it, but your reaction may have proved his point (at least in his mind). He probably thought your argument was about religion, when it was really about being disrespectful.

 

[catharina]

I understand your (name removed by moderator)ut is intended to assist me. However, given the antagonism in your comments regarding my response and the fact the other individual appears to be blameless (due to lack of critical comment on your part) I can help but think this is a personal opportunity to fume at something. In the spirit of your advice, I cordially ask that you cease (name removed by moderator)ut into my question as it is no longer desired. Thank you and have a nice day.

Antagonism? The antagonism is yours, directed to a higher-up at work -
in an exchange that didn’t include you. You have a nice day too -
I shall offer my opinion when I wish. I haven’t even started on ‘being
Italian’ made you speak up in rudeness? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.

 

[catharina]

Aw, I like you! I appreciate that you have such a calm approach to things. Not all of us are so lucky.

I have been in similar situations to the OP, where I let my temper get the best of me. I would say work on that for now and not necessarily drag HR into it (of course, if yours is really good, then that would be something else. I’m just remembering my time in the corporate world and our HR was horrible, horrible, horrible…) The guy shouldn’t have said what he said, and showed a great deal of ignorance in saying it, but your reaction may have proved his point (at least in his mind). He probably thought your argument was about religion, when it was really about being disrespectful.

Excellent.
It’s very easy to pour gasoline on a fire,
less easy to smother the flames.

 

[Soldier_Of_God]

Antagonism? The antagonism is yours, directed to a higher-up at work -
in an exchange that didn’t include you. You have a nice day too -
I shall offer my opinion when I wish. I haven’t even started on ‘being
Italian’ made you speak up in rudeness? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.

Thank you for demonstrating my point. Also, alluding that I’m might be from the US seems to be casting unnecessary aspersions at the citizens from that nation. This is certainly showing an uncharitable side and is somewhat hypocritical.

 

[catharina]

No, I work in Canada.

Perhaps the work-culture is different in Canada.
I actually doubt it - but maybe.

 

[catharina]

Thank you for demonstrating my point. Also, alluding that I’m might be from the US seems to be casting unnecessary aspersions at the citizens from that nation. This is certainly showing an uncharitable side and is somewhat hypocritical.

Big HUH?

Blaming an Italian heritage for anger problems is “casting aspersions.”

I’m familiar with HR issues in the USA, not in Canada.
Maybe in Canada it’s very different. I’ve cast no aspersions
re nationality US-Canada.

You asked for advice.
I gave plenty.

 

[Soldier_Of_God]

Big HUH?

Blaming an Italian heritage for anger problems is “casting aspersions.”

I’m familiar with HR issues in the USA, not in Canada.
Maybe in Canada it’s very different. I’ve cast no aspersions
re nationality US-Canada.

You asked for advice.
I gave plenty.

It was a simple, self deprecating attempt at humor and you know it. I’ll be sure to not act on your advice and now I’m convinced that HR is the way to go. I’ll let you know how it turns out.

 

[jsaldar]

Just ignore the person. You will never make them change their mind. If they don’t have faith then they don’t have it. Nothing you can really do about it. It is up to each individual to accept God or reject him. This individual knows the way because he has heard about it, but refuses to follow it.

Just say a little prayer for this person and ignore the comments.

 

[catharina]

It was a simple, self deprecating attempt at humor and you know it. I’ll be sure to not to act on your advice and now I’m convinced that HR is the way to go. I’ll let you know how it turns out.

Had no clue it was your attempt at humor.
Why would I? Yet you insist I “know it.” … Wow.

Do let everyone what happens between HR and you.
In Canada … I’ve no idea what will happen.

 

[catharina]

Just ignore the person. You will never make them change their mind. If they don’t have faith then they don’t have it. Nothing you can really do about it. It is up to each individual to accept God or reject him. This individual knows the way because he has heard about it, but refuses to follow it.

Just say a little prayer for this person and ignore the comments.

Agree. Either make a mild statement of disagreement
or ignore the insult entirely. To get ugly over it is a loss.

 

[Soldier_Of_God]

Had no clue it was your attempt at humor.
Why would I? Yet you insist I “know it.” … Wow.

Do let everyone what happens between HR and you.
In Canada … I’ve no idea what will happen.

It seems you’re anxious to get the last word in and do it an uncharitable manner. What irony! Please respect my wishes and do not contribute further. However, I do believe you insist on doing it anyway.

 

[catharina]

It seems you’re anxious to get the last word in and do it an uncharitable manner. What irony! Please respect my wishes and do not contribute further. However, I do believe you insist on doing it anyway.

You seem to imagine that you are called to monitor threads, and “banishing” me is your current desire. So sorry. Not interested. Your power does not extend that far. Now, God bless you and I hope you find a resolution to your troubles.

 

[Soldier_Of_God]

Now, God bless you and I hope you find a resolution to your troubles.

God bless you and I hope you find resolution to your issues as well.

 

[Wardog]

The associate came to the table with a question for your lunch-mate.
You stated that very clearly. If you don’t understand that it is not your
place to provide contradiction and commentary on his words, then, as I said,
it’s time to look for a new job. You were really rude - in a matter that did
not concern you. If you don’t understand that fact, then you have a lot to learn
about the world of work. Also in matters related to the Faith, gentleness works
wonders while angry confrontation does not.

You “demanded” an apology? That’s very angry, IMO.

I disagree. If someone in my hearing made a racist or sexist statement, I would not stay quiet.