Speakers tell pope, synod that parishes should welcome same-sex couples

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pnewton said:
Doesn’t judging that someone is prideful cross the line past judging actions and judging the soul?

There is a little bit of straw man here. Three actual:
  1. No one has suggested that wrong is never pointed out.
  2. No one has said it is OK to continue sinning.
  3. No one has said we don’t care about sin.
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Exactly as I thought, both Santo Domingo and I stated that you have to present the gospel to all but if you are going to say yes To Jesus you cannot continue a life of sinning without being repentant. You expressly wrote that you did not agree with that statement. If you are telling me that you don’t agree with the statement that is Not OK to continue sinning, then at minimum you are giving the understanding that you think that yes people should continue sinning. So as to your #2 indeed you previously said that you did not agree with #2. That is why you are getting all the answers you are getting. No one is throwing straws you specifically stated “i dont agree” as to the point of not being ok with sin. I don’t know if that is what you meant but what you wrote within the conversation is being understood as you think that same sex people should join the church and still commiting sinful acts with no repentance at all.
 
marymary1975 said:
Then I am truly not understanding your point. I will go back to re read to be 100% sure but when we previously stated exactly that you responded that you didn’t agree it…
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The point is that you can not say to people who show up in Mass that their motivation is pride. Pride is one of those sins that the majority of the time is something known only to that person.
You expressly wrote that you did not agree with that statement.
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I did not say which statement I disagree with. What I disagreed with was the presentation of Jesus as some sort of fundamental evangelist, which is the nearest analogy I can see if one expects repentance of all sin to come to Mass. Conversion can be a process.

Again in the case of Zacchueus, the point is not that he renounced his sin, but that Jesus did not tell him to renounce his sin. All that Jesus told him that is recorded is that he wanted to eat with him. The fellowship came first, then whatever conversation took place, then the man repented.

Note that the article is not saying that gay couples should be welcomed into full fellowship without any doctrinal training or conversion. All that was said is the parishes should welcome them. The headline could have just as easily read that homosexual acts are still held to be immoral, as that too was something that was said.
 
Sorry but I am still not understanding what you mean and what is your point. We are not talking about going to Mass. To go to mass you don’t have to go to communion. Anyone is already welcome to Mass. You don’t even have to be catholic to go to Mass. That is a non existing issue at the current time because no catholic church on earth requires people to be free from sin in order to go to Mass. All churches in the world welcome anyone no matter what…even the most dangerous serial killer can go to mass so that is not the point. Communion is what you are required to be in a state of Grace to receive and that is what usually these kind of articles are aiming at.

I don’t think that this article is just saying that parishes just merely welcome them as again that is a non existent issue (whu they are wasting time writing about setting non existing) the elephant in the room is to push allowance of communion and to push for the church’s acceptance of homosexual relations.
 
I received our parish newsletter today and was happy to read about “the Principles of Catholic Social Teaching”. The ten main points included…

Human Dignity
Respect For Life
Association
Participation
Protection for the poor and vulnerable
Solidarity
Stewardship
Responsibilities and Limits of Government
Human Equality
Common Good

Nothing in that said anything of judging others or pointing out their sins. The people who want to evangelize by telling other they are sinners and going to hell are not following the Church. They are following their own need to feel superior to others to feel like that is their way of serving the Church, helping them get into heaven. They don’t want to focus on their own sins, so they focus on the possible sins of others they are not even sure about. Their belief in God is distorted and negative and ignores that we are all children of God who He love above anything else.
 
ncregister.com/blog/joan-desmond/father-check-from-the-courage-responds-to-synod-report

Father Check from the Courage Responds to Synod Report

“Now Father Paul Check, who leads the international Courage apostolate, which helps Catholics with same-sex attraction live in accord with Catholic teaching on chastity, has expressed concern about this passage. During an interview today, he said that Courage members are worried and confused about the message from Synod”
 
LongingSoul said:
I can’t imagine being barred from Holy Communion for the rest of my life because of early mistakes I made. I’ve always tried to do the right thing as a life long Catholic, but I was blessed to have been born into a deeply religious environment and thoroughly catechised from birth. Lucky me. But I can’t help feeling a similar sorrow to the holy Fathers at the plight of those whose inner conversion came at a time after they understood fully what’s what. It’s at least worth having a good look at through a synod to see what the Holy Spirit might come up with!
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👍 Precisely, got it in one.
 
gilliam said:
VATICAN CITY (CNS) — A married couple told Pope Francis and the Synod of Bishops on the family that Catholic parishes should welcome same-sex couples, following the example of parents who invite their son and his male partner to their home for Christmas.

“The church constantly faces the tension of upholding the truth while expressing compassion and mercy. Families face this tension all the time,” Ron and Mavis Pirola of Sydney told the synod Oct. 6.

“Take homosexuality as an example. Friends of ours were planning their Christmas family gathering when their gay son said he wanted to bring his partner home too. They fully believed in the church’s teachings and they knew their grandchildren would see them welcome the son and his partner into the family. Their response could be summed up in three (sic) words, ‘He is our son.’”

“What a model of evangelization for parishes as they respond to similar situations in their neighborhood,” the Pirolas said.

While Catholic teaching insists homosexual people should not be discriminated against, it holds that homosexual acts are always immoral and that marriage can only be a union between one man and one woman.

The couple, who are participating in the synod as non-voting auditors, spoke at the beginning of the afternoon session of the synod’s first working day. The session’s designated theme was “God’s plan for marriage and the family.”

synodonfamily.wordpress.com/2014/10/06/speakers-tell-pope-synod-that-parishes-should-welcome-same-sex-couples/
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I think it’s fine to invite same-sex couples to church, because we’re all sinners; however, we need to make very clear the sinful nature of such unions. We should not bend the Church’s teachings to accommodate sins; if we do so, we risk losing ourselves.
 
shelby_sun said:
Nothing in that said anything of judging others or pointing out their sins. The people who want to evangelize by telling other they are sinners and going to hell are not following the Church. They are following their own need to feel superior to others to feel like that is their way of serving the Church, helping them get into heaven. They don’t want to focus on their own sins, so they focus on the possible sins of others they are not even sure about. Their belief in God is distorted and negative and ignores that we are all children of God who He love above anything else.
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I hope you see the irony in your post which displays just as much judgment and condemnation toward those who disagree with you, as those you are accusing. :rolleyes:

It has become the universal (and I might add shallow) cry of tolerance and liberalism.
 
MarcoPolo said:
Part of the problem is that in evangelizing and exhibiting love, rule #1 is never compromise on a doctrine. And too many people of a secular bent measure the Church’s degree of “welcomeness” proportionate to how much their contra-Church behavior is approved.

We cannot measure how “welcoming” the Church is based on raw numbers. We cannot measure how “loving” the Church is based on raw membership. It would be poisonous to go around granting the approval that is sought by gay couples and supporters of that arrangement. It would certainly not be an act of love to do so, not to any such couple, nor to the practicing members of the Body. If the Church must uphold a hard saying, it doesn’t mean the Church is unloving. John 6?

I think any synodal considerations have to balance outreach with the upholding of truth. This culture too often demands that the Church forfeit the latter.
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It sounds like you are using certain things about are faith to help your lake of ability to accept others as children of God. Maybe it is your way of not dealing with your own sinful ways, as we all have them. The homily at Easter at our Church was all about focusing on ourselves as sinners and not focusing on others. I now several gay couples that are far better Catholic and people than many “good” Catholic and they do much more for the world in many, many ways.
 
shelby_sun said:
It sounds like you are using certain things about are faith to help your lake of ability to accept others as children of God. Maybe it is your way of not dealing with your own sinful ways, as we all have them. The homily at Easter at our Church was all about focusing on ourselves as sinners and not focusing on others. I now several gay couples that are far better Catholic and people than many “good” Catholic and they do much more for the world in many, many ways.
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why you think it appropriate to attack his motives? jesus taught hard sayings. people left him. others carried their cross and followed him and he helped to make it light and made them saints. homosexuality cannot become in 2014 something less sinful that it has been since creation because of 50 year old sexual revolution. this revolution will not last another century. it has already bad effects on society. our problems even now in this synod are direct result of this horrible revolution. it church job to remain anchored to truth so when her children are looking for both they can find her. I find it very hard not to have sex before marriage. everyone is doing it. I don’t even know how long I will last especially if the partner keeps pushing for it. why am I struggling if sin means nothing? if struggling in non Christian world means nothing? I lost many opportunities for relationships with good people of different views for this reason. am I foolish? I should just be happy and do what all do and just go on to communion? I probably would be in regularized marriage by now and have repented of any past sins if I had gone that route.

why the church is not focusing on such problems and how to help catholics like me whose life is difficult for following that outdated belief in unbelieving world? better to focuss on supporting single catholics, gay catholics (who are chaste), young catholics couples who are being open to life, couples struggling through annulment process which can take years and they have to be celibate even though they were married which VERY hard and huge sacrifice, divorced or widowed catholics who are lonely. I expect synd on family to focus on how to the church can be helpful to these catholics with ministries and other focused outreaches.
 
shelby_sun said:
It sounds like you are using certain things about are faith to help your lake of ability to accept others as children of God. Maybe it is your way of not dealing with your own sinful ways, as we all have them. The homily at Easter at our Church was all about focusing on ourselves as sinners and not focusing on others.
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And it sounds to me your criticism would like to remove all constraints of morality. This is a deeply flawed premise because you want people to have freedom to do as they wish, including living in any sinful lifestyle they please. But according to basic principles of Christian concern and love of neighbor, precisely because they are children of God, we provide them with moral truth which they are then free to accept or reject as they see fit.

Your idea of tolerance then, violates the integrity of the Christian faith and discounts God’s justice regarding those who blatantly live in sin.
 
One_point said:
why am I struggling if sin means nothing?

why the church is not focusing on such problems and how to help catholics like me whose life is difficult for following that outdated belief in unbelieving world? better to focuss on supporting single catholics, gay catholics (who are chaste), young catholics couples who are being open to life, couples struggling through annulment process which can take years and they have to be celibate even though they were married which VERY hard and huge sacrifice, divorced or widowed catholics who are lonely. I expect synd on family to focus on how to the church can be helpful to these catholics with ministries and other focused outreaches.
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👍

It is interesting to note, regarding your bolded above, that I just read in one of the many synodal commentaries that the word “sin” is not mentioned anywhere in the Relatio. How can this be coming from theologians of great repute whose primary teaching mission is to lead souls to God?
 
Greetings to all… The human persona is most intricate and given to us by the Creator. Who are we to judge this! I feel that the priest in conference with any laity member should be able to come to an understanding, and move forward in union with the Church. We should not question why the Creator made people gay, bi, or straight. This is beyond our comprehension on this plane. I for one embrace the diversity within creation… sending light and love…Budeux
 
Tigg said:
And it sounds to me your criticism would like to remove all constraints of morality. This is a deeply flawed premise because you want people to have freedom to do as they wish, including living in any sinful lifestyle they please. But according to basic principles of Christian concern and love of neighbor, precisely because they are children of God, we provide them with moral truth which they are then free to accept or reject as they see fit.

Your idea of tolerance then, violates the integrity of the Christian faith and discounts God’s justice regarding those who blatantly live in sin.
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You fail to focus on God’s love, mercy, and forgiveness for His children who have become lost for whatever reason. That is your choice, but as a sinner myself, I have no right to judge others. I guess you do not see yourself as a sinner, which IMO is the biggest sin of all, especially when it help you feel superior to others.
 
**Speakers tell pope, synod that parishes should welcome same-sex couples **
The Pope can’t change any laws set by God. So the Church can’t change their stance on homosexuality. 🙂
 
Again, we can judge others actions. We can not judge their heart. These are two separate matters.
 
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