Speaking in tongues: genuine charism or silly gibberish?

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jcrichton said:
I think that you should be asking:
  • What purpose does it serve to have hundreds or thousands speaking in tongues, prophesying, healing… when the Church continues to lose grounds, when Priests and Bishops continue to act in an anti-Christ manner, when the laity choses and picks which Doctrine to half-follow, when devote Catholics are in their golden years, when non-Catholic Christians continue to divide in search for the “genuine” Biblical path to Christ, when Christ’s very specific “Love one another…” and “be one…” are ignored or restructured to mean anything but Christ’s Love and Unity in One God, One Baptism, One Spirit, One Faith, One Gospel, One Church?
  • Remember how Jesus warned the disciples not to be as the Pharisees and Sadducees nor like the hypocrites which would multiply their words so that men could praise them for their “prayers?”
  • Is Yahweh God deaf?
  • Is Yahweh a God of chaos?
  • Can we bring order back to the act of Worship?
Maran atha!

Angel
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Why should I ask those questions?🤷 If you want to know the answers, you ask.

Again, I ask those of you who do not believe that tongues is authentic: Do you think the other charismatic gifts are fake, too? Interpretation (of tongues), discernment, prophesy, healing, faith, etc…all fake?

I didn’t think this was a stumper.:confused:
 
26 Likewise, the Spirit also helpeth our infirmity. For, we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit himself asketh for us with unspeakable groanings, 27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what the Spirit desireth: because he asketh for the saints according to God. (Romans 8:26-27)
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I used to think praying in tongues was fake.

Then I was troubled with a personal heartache in my life, a painful separation from someone very dear to me. I went to a bible study group to get a Priest to bless a sacramental to aid me in my petitions, but the bible study had already begun and I had to wait until the class was over. It turned out this class/lecture was on praying in tongues. After the scripture readings the Priest led us in singing Hallelujah over & over. I thought it was dumb & fake, but decided to go along with it just so I wouldn’t stand out.

After repeatedly singing Hallelujah a few times something came over me and I was praying in tongues. It sounded so beautiful, I knew it wasn’t me because I don’t have a very good singing voice and this sound was nothing less than heavenly. It came from deep within and sounded like an ancient language. The most amazing thing was the feeling of love & peace that came over me.

I truly believe that “the Spirit helpeth my infirmity. Though I knew not what or how to pray as *I *ought the Spirit Himself asketh for me with unspeakable groanings, and He that searcheth the hearts knoweth what the Spirit desireth: because He asketh for the saints according to God.”
 
redrosetea said:
I hope its not demonic. I have a charistmatic friend that speaks in tongues…I told her it wasn’t for me…I don’t think that she would be involved in anything like that

I also don’t think she would show off, but I do think there are people that do this for attention…I saw some guy on youtube giving a demonstration…I don’t undertand how you can turn it on and off at will

I also dont think barking like dogs and rolling around is Godly at all…

At the charismatic mass I attended the woman behind us prayed so loudly you could hear her in the next room…I turned around and looked at her …she didn’t seem to be in any sort of spirit filled condtion as far as i could see…she smiled at me. I think she was doing it for attention, (she was speaking in english)…that is truely what I think…I just don’t believe all of these people suddenly get the spirit and speak in tongues

Mother Angelica said it did happen to her once…she said she kept silent most of the day…She didn’t act like she thought it was a big deal either way, nor did she say the gift remained nor have I ever heard her pray in tongues on her program

She never spoke of it again, and didn’t say that she was even praying when she received it. She just couldn’t answer people in English

We all receive the gift of the Holy Spirit at confirmation, and I have never seen a confirmed person do this

I think it happens but it is rare, and lots of the people are faking it

I am sorry if this makes me not popular on this thread but this is my honest opinion
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redrosetea,

I agree with you.

I believe speaking in tongues is when you are able to speak in a different native language (one of the 6,800) and be able to understand someone else’s native language not of your own.
 
I had been the visitor on the Charismatic conferences and services.
And I heard about the eschatological theories which are borrowed from the Scofield Bible.
I personally is in doubt about the Charismatic prophetic assuredness of the knowledge about the curses cases , the causes of genetic and life curses , and those curses diagnoses which they ascertaining as real.
Also its evident that in reality there are the honest and righteous people , who are not healthy and wealthy , and it is because of their righteous sacrifices and honesty.
Some times to stay righteous will cost you wealth and even health , no matter if you claim the health and prosperity or not , and if you speak with tongues or not.
Probably the substance of glossolalia is not perfectly investigated yet , but there are the serious pretensions to the Charismatic healings and miracles experience.
There are much artificial and strummed there.
And some practice outwardly really looks like blasphemous or at best incorrect and foolish practice.
There is the Baptist scholar - McArthur ( there are two brother’s both theologists , probably McArthur youngest , I am not sure )
he explored glossolalia and miracles phenomenon , probably dedicated much time to explore Pentecostalism and Charismatism topic.
May be his works can be helpful , just for the comparative analysis and counter-arguments examining the phenomenon’s of glossalia and Charismatic miracles .
And also I do not agree with using of that type of Charismatic improvisation of the Bible , when you get sticking to the ‘letter’ of the word , and make the significance of the verse with some strange special personal application , there is a danger to forget the original meanings of the text and to go too far with improvisations and texts use.
I mean you forget about the original context of the verse , and allegorizes the Biblical verses in unhealthy and not wise applications.
I think we should not forget about necessity of the knowledge of that full God’s revelation which God has opened to the Church and guides the Church.
Because , because of unchecked and not properly explored innovations , there is a danger to find ourselves in the world of uncertain and doubtful theology.
The theology which the prophet Amos probably would describe as a ‘famine’ for hearing the words of the Lord.( Amos 8:11)
 
Look, here is the thing. The Catholic Charismatic Renewal exists, the Church condones it and quite honestly there are places where it is producing good fruit.

Your normal cradle Catholic doesn’t like it primarily because it is so different of a prayer than what they were taught in CCD and experience every Sunday at Mass. Charismatic prayer meetings are not ordered or structured as the Mass is or prewritten prayers and devotions where how to worship is layed out for them. This would be a big transition no doubt.

As a Church we must deal with this phenomena and imbrace it and use it for what God has given it to us for. That is to help bring belief back to a world of unbelief.

People have asked why now? Why has these gifts come back now? I tell you why. When in the last 2000 years has unbelief been so prevalent? At the beginning and right now. Most Christians go to church don’t know much of anything about the God they are there for. And most would prefer to go layout on the beach or go shopping than go to Mass.

Is a Charismatic someone more holier than the average Christian in good standing? No. Does the Charismata make you more holy? No. Does it give you additional weapons in the spiritual warfare we are all going through? Yes. Can they and do they edify the Church? Yes.
 
No we don’t have to embrace it ,just tolerate it…I will never become part of that circus
 
Hello 🙂

I believe that God gives the gift of tongues and I know of a handful of people personally who have told me they have this gift.

What the gift of tongues is: A gift to be used to His glory

What the gift of tongues is not: Something that everyone has and to be used in a public display every time they worship

To everything there is a time and purpose. If everyone in a congregation claims to have the gift of tongues, they are lying and giving the glory to themselves instead of God.

The people that I know who have this gift do not even speak of it, as they are the stewards of this God-given gift and take this responsibility seriously. When in prayer groups, they often use the gift of tongues but do so without the showmanship so often visible in protestant circles.

Kelly
 
Lepanto said:
I have read about many people claiming to be able to speak in tongues. I’ve even talked to some who claim to be able to do this. When I pressed them about it, they said that are actually speaking a language, but that it is unintelligible. One person demonstrated it for me and it sounded like porcine squeels.

If anyone can “suddenly” speak an actual human language that they weren’t able to before, then I’ll believe that they have the gift of tongues since that would by definition be a miracle. Until then, I have no reason to think that claims of “speaking n tongues” is self-deceptive and make-believe gibberish. It may be well-intentioned, but it’s still wishful thinking. Unbiblical, too.
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A priest friend of mine had a retreat for high schoolers a few years back, and some of them did start speaking in Hebrew, Greek and Latin which he recognized, but they did not. So not all of it is gibberish.

The “speaking in tongues” that is gibberish doesn’t fall under the speaking in tongues at Pentecost so much as the “inexpressible groanings” of the Holy Spirit making up for what is lacking in our own vocabulary.
 
redrosetea said:
No we don’t have to embrace it ,just tolerate it…I will never become part of that circus
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I hate to tell you but our last three popes including Pope Benedict XVI have embraced it or at least accepted it as an important lay movement in our Church.

No one has said that you have to become Charismatic. There are different strokes for different folks but the big thing that we need have here is humility to understand that God works with each of us in different ways and many times in ways we do not understand.
 
ERose said:
I hate to tell you but our last three popes including Pope Benedict XVI have embraced it or at least accepted it as an important lay movement in our Church.

No one has said that you have to become Charismatic. There are different strokes for different folks but the big thing that we need have here is humility to understand that God works with each of us in different ways and many times in ways we do not understand.
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The Pope acknowledging the Charismatic movement as an important movement in the Church is not the same thing as testifying to the validity of the gifts of all those claiming to receive them.

I am still very much a doubting Thomas on this one.

I “think” its something like 90% gibberish and 10% speaking in tongues.

It seems a bit odd to me that the “gifts” that are the easiest to fake are the ones most frequently “given”.

Chuck
 
When the Pope speaks excathedra about speaking in tongues, I will reconsider my views until then, I am personally not obliged to do anything at all about this issue
 
Bruised_Reed said:
Why should I ask those questions?🤷 If you want to know the answers, you ask.

Again, I ask those of you who do not believe that tongues is authentic: Do you think the other charismatic gifts are fake, too? Interpretation (of tongues), discernment, prophesy, healing, faith, etc…all fake?

I didn’t think this was a stumper.:confused:
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Hi, Bruised Reed!

…sorry… it seems that we are not on the same page… I though that looking into the “cause/effect” or “efforts/results” would be a better determining factor…

I do not think that authentic Gift (charism) is what is in question since all Catholics profess to believe in God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. What is in question is the liberties that are taken in the name of “speaking in tongues.”

So I proposed to you a gauge to measure the value of having hundreds, if not thousands, of people speaking in tongues, all at the same time, on a regular basis as the means to Worship Yahweh God.

In my perspective, it only stands to reason that if we have so many Christians (both Catholics and non-Catholics) using such intense and direct communication with God there should be greater cohesiveness in the Church and the evil that permeates her and society at large should be minimal or at least decreasing in respect to the increase of the worshiping in “tongue.”

Yet, if the hundreds/thousands are simply “looking out for number one…” then it is easy to see how it may seem to be more nonsense than anything else–relax your six-shooter, this statement by no means claims that there isn’t “authentic” speaking in tongues in the Church.

Maran atha!

Angel
 
Well on that basis I guess we don’t have to agree with his personal initiative document, non ex-cathedra on the Latin Mass.
I personally believe he speaks in the Holy Spirit and with authority, the authority of Peter. I can’t pick and choose, and place myself over Peter - can you?
redrosetea said:
When the Pope speaks excathedra about speaking in tongues, I will reconsider my views until then, I am personally not obliged to do anything at all about this issue
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I don’t place myself above Peter, no where have I heard or read the pope says we must be a part of this…Until He does I am going to avoid it…It seems to me that some want all of us to think its wonderful, and jump on the band wagon…I don’t intend to unless I am forced

If you believe in it its fine for you, if the Pope thinks its wonderful, it’s fine for him…I don’t and that’s is fine for me
 
redrosetea said:
I don’t place myself above Peter, no where have I heard or read the pope says we must be a part of this…Until He does I am going to avoid it…It seems to me that some want all of us to think its wonderful, and jump on the band wagon…I don’t intend to unless I am forced

If you believe in it its fine for you, if the Pope thinks its wonderful, it’s fine for him…I don’t and that’s is fine for me
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The pope hasn’t (and likely never will) mandate participation in the Charismatic movement. No one is obligated to participate in any movement within the Church.

I think the point some people are trying to make is simply that, those who do choose to participate in the Charismatic movement should have the support of all of us who do not. This doesn’t mean that we have to be fond of it or promote it or participate in it. It simply means that we should respect the way they choose to pray (i.e. not calling it “gibberish”) as it has not been condemned but only affirmed by the Pope.
 
I don’t recall calling it gibberish,if I did ( I could be having a senior moment) I apologize…however people barking like dogs and rolling around on the floor is gibberish to me…I will never seen that circus stuff in any other light…
 
redrosetea said:
I don’t recall calling it gibberish,if I did ( I could be having a senior moment) I apologize…however people barking like dogs and rolling around on the floor is gibberish to me…I will never seen that circus stuff in any other light…
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I didn’t mean to imply that you called it gibberish. I was simply referring to the title of the thread and the question in the OP. Admittedly, not everyone that is “speaking in tounges” in the Charismatic movement is doing so authentically. I’ve met at least one person that has told me they just make stuff up to go along with the crowd. But then I’ve met (and prayed with) other charismatics who pray this way much more genuinely. The difference is palpable.

The way I look at it is, praying in this “gibberish” is really more about acknowledging that our human words are inadequate in praising God. Even our most well-articulated prayers cannot possibly convey the honor and adoration that we owe to God. Romans 8:26 says “In the same way, the Spirit too comes to the aid of our weakness; for we do not know how to pray as we ought, but the Spirit itself intercedes with inexpressible groanings.” This is the verse I always think of when I hear people praying this way.

Just to clarify, I say this all as one who does not pray this way and is generally uncomfortable at charismatic prayer services. But I recognize that it works for some people. And it hasn’t been condemned, so anyone can legitimately pray this way. Do I think anyone is required to? No. Does everyone have to be comfortable with it? No. But I think we do have to acknowledge that it’s a legitimate way that Catholics can pray.

I don’t mean to imply that you, redrosetea, are saying that Catholics should not pray this way (because I don’t think that’s what you’re saying). I’m just trying to clarify.
 
redrosetea said:
I don’t recall calling it gibberish,if I did ( I could be having a senior moment) I apologize…however people barking like dogs and rolling around on the floor is gibberish to me…I will never seen that circus stuff in any other light…
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Redrosetea,

To be honest I have never seen anyone at the meetings I have been to barking like dogs or rolling around the floor. And if I did I would difinitely question that too!
 
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