Speaking in tongues: genuine charism or silly gibberish?

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Ok, one more time into the fray-

It seems to me that the charismatic gifts, healing, prophecy, and speaking/praying in tongues are all ones that, by their very nature, give concrete “proof” of God. And for a good deal of people, they need and want that proof, no matter how deeply buried the desire is.

Now, healing and prophecy are (more or less) easily proven or disproven. Person still sick? Gift of healing disproven. Prophecy not made manifest/at odds with Church teachings? Gift of prophecy disproven.

But the Gift of Tongues…ahhh…now there’s one that isn’t so easily proven or disproven. Someone speaks in an unknown vocabulary, but seems to use real words from known languages- could be real, could be fake (even if not deliberately faked. I’m sure most of us, for example, have heard Christ called “Christi”, or, depending on your geographical location, random words from other languages. Living where I do, I’ve picked up a fair amount of random Spanish). Someone speaks in a completely non-human language? Could be the tongue of angels. Could be random “gibberish”, to use the word from the OP’s title.

Point is, with tongues, it can’t be immediately or obviously disproven like the other charismatic gifts. And I think it is this reason that it is so appealing to so many people. On a deep level, it would satisfy some people’s need for proof of God, in a manner that isn’t easy to discount.

I do know that there are some people who are more easily influenced by their surroundings than others. Take hypnosis, for example. It is easier to induce an altered state in some people than in others. Some people simply cannot be hypnotized. Glossolalia (which I know some will argue is different from speaking in tongues) has been studied by linguists, and has revealed that English-speaking people’s glossolalia sounds different from Russian-speaking, or Japanese-speaking (etc.) glossolalia, that is: they follow the basic speech patterns of their native tongue.

However, it has also been observed that, despite differences in phenomes, all glossolalia, no matter what context it occurs in, follows the same basic patterns, intonation, rhythm, etc. That means that Christians, in the middle of a praise and worship service exibit glossolalia no different in structure than people conducting, say, a voodoo ritual. (meta-religion.com/Linguistics/Glossolalia/contemporary_linguistic_study.htm)

This leads to some immediate questions:
  1. Is all human language so similar at its heart that our brain is hardwired to recognize and recreate its patterns and flow on a subconcious level? (could explain why all glossolalia sounds similar- it is the creation of the human brain, which understands language in a particular manner)
  2. Does the Holy Spirit give its gifts to those worshipping false gods and demons as well as those worshipping the One True God? (could explain why all glossolalia sounds the same, as its from the same source, but would beg the question- why would the Holy Spirit bestow these gifts in a context that doesn’t glorify God?)
  3. Is some of it genuine manifestations of the Holy Spirit, and others the subconcious result of a yearning on behalf of the speaker? (but why then, no difference in the sound patterns of glossolalia?)
Ok. I know I said I was done with this thread, but I’ve been doing a lot of research on the topic since then, and wanted to share my observations. For what little they’re worth.
 
The only language of ever heard of to perform and exorcism in was Latin…I’m not sure what the Protestants do, or if they even have exorcisms?
 
redrosetea said:
The only language of ever heard of to perform and exorcism in was Latin…I’m not sure what the Protestants do, or if they even have exorcisms?
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Exorcisms are not limited to specific languages. They are carried out in English, for example.
 
I didn’t know that . I have not done much research but it seems somewhere I read that Latin was the language of choice, perhaps because it is the mother tongue of the church?
 
If you ask me, speaking in tongues is a genuine charism but then again, I am a Charismatic Catholic. 👍
 
Holly3278 said:
If you ask me, speaking in tongues is a genuine charism but then again, I am a Charismatic Catholic. 👍
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We all believe that too except that most of us believe the “tongues” are foreign but real languages (to the speaker) and not gibberish.
 
Most of who? Not most of those who know what they are talking about.
thistle said:
We all believe that too except that most of us believe the “tongues” are foreign but real languages (to the speaker) and not gibberish.
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If it is true that glossolalia has been observed in non-Christian activities like voodoo, then maybe glossolalia isn’t tongues at all. I read an article by Jimmy Akin on tongues. He said that a tongue is a language and the gift of tongues meant to be able to speak another language, granted it may be possible to speak an angel’s language. Doesn’t it seem like most tongues you hear are this “angel’s language” or not any recognizable language?

Glossolalia, if it is what some posters here have said it is, doesn’t seem to be anything particularly Christian. I mean, what the Apostles received- the gift of tongues- sounds a whole lot different than what many people have at Catholic Charismatic meetings.

Being able to speak another language or being able to interpret another language, which you don’t know already, seems to be miraculous. Your mind “clicking” so that it puts out all sort of random words and sounds doesn’t sound miraculous, but I’m not one to limit the pathways of the Spirit. I don’t know.
 
Just for clarification:

What I posted previously about scientists’ observations of glossolalia across cultures deals only with the so-called “tongue of angels”, i.e., utterances that are not any human speech.

Xenoglossy, the ability to speak in a human tongue not known to the speaker, is much rarer, and few occurrences of it are scientifically documented.
 
christisall said:
Most of who? Not most of those who know what they are talking about.
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Its very simple. Those who claim to speak “gibberish” tongues should submit to the Church for discernment. If they won’t do that then its obviously a fake and pride on the part of the claimant.
 
Father Seraphim (Rose), an Orthodox writer, wrote a book called “Orthodoxy and the Religion of the Future.” In this book, he described the so-called “Speaking in Tongues” phenoemena as being part of an emotional “charismatic” so-called Christianity that was doing nothing more than taking people away from True Christianity and paving the way for Antichrist. Exaggerated emotional states are notpart of Chirstianity, but part of anti-Christianity.
 
guanophore said:
Such blatant “votes” against the Word of God and workings of the Spirit astonish me.:bigyikes:
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The gift of tongues certainly exists. Whether it exists in every other town’s charismatic group is another question.
 
In my opinion, none of you are qualified to speak authoritatively on this issue unless you have been directly involved, and in any case, as we repeat here again and again, you are placing yourself over the Church, the Church has approved the Charismatic Renewal, the last two Holy Fathers, sucessors of Peter (remember him) have spoken of it as a necessary part in the renewal of the Church, as has Pope Benedict while Cardinal Ratzinger. They know these gifts are part of the renewal, and do not and would not require submission to the Church to discern tongues in every prayer meeting in the world. Preposterous!!
thistle said:
Its very simple. Those who claim to speak “gibberish” tongues should submit to the Church for discernment. If they won’t do that then its obviously a fake and pride on the part of the claimant.
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To say that speaking in tongues is gibberish is to risk grieving the Holy Spirit. It would make a mockery of the many descriptions of the phenomenon,starting with Pentecost day and, indeed, the words of Jesus Himself. Sheesh! Must I do all the work? I would have thought that any Bible reading Catholic would be f**amiliar **with these great events. However, try these as a starting point: In the New Testament there are 24 direct references to tongues inter alia:

“And these signs shall follow them that believe; in my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; “(Mark 16: 17;18)

“they were all filled with the Holy Spirit, and began to speak with other tongues as the Spirit gave them utterance" (Acts 2:4)
“For anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God”(1 Corinthians: 14;2)

**Acts **10:4: 46 “ They heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God”

And when Paul had laid *his *hands upon them, the Holy Spirit came on them; and they spoke with tongues, and prophesied.” Acts 19:6

9To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; ‘°To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another *divers *kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues (1 Corinthians ;12)

“Charity never fails: but whether *there be *prophecies, they shall fail; whether *there be *tongues, they shall cease; whether *there be *knowledge, it shall vanish away. 9For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. ‘°But when
that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.” ( 1 Corinthians 13;8-11)

**1 Corinthians 14:2 **-5 “2For he that speaks in an *unknown *tongue speaks not unto men, but unto God: for no man understands *him; *howbeit in the edification, and exhortation, and comfort. 4He that speaks in an *unknown *tongue edifies himself; but he that prophesies edifies the church. I would that you all spoke with tongues”

**
”In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what
we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself prays for us with groans that
words cannot express.” (Romans 8:26**)
There is no word in the Bible about tongues ceasing, until all is made perfect i.e. at the Second Coming.

D
 
maklavan said:
To say that speaking in tongues is gibberish is to risk grieving the Holy Spirit.
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To be fair to the OP, I do not think he is trying to say that speaking in tongues as a genuine gift of the Holy Spirit is “gibberish”. He seems to merely be questioning whether many of those involved in the Charismatic movement that pray in unfamiliar words genuinely have this gift when their words are not from a recognizeable foreign language. It’s not a question of whether or not the gift exists, or whether or not the gift is “gibberish”, but of whether or not everyone who claims to have the gift really does.
 
TheApologist said:
Here is my experience of tongues.
Many of you may not know this, but the Steubenville conferences around the country are typically very charismatic. (At least the one I’ve been to is very charismatic, and by the looks of the promotional video and other such talk, it seems that most conferences are like that).

Three people whom I trust very much (at least in the regard that they wouldn’t lie about something like speaking in tongues, I think), have spoken in tongues (two of them had their tongues originate during the Steubenville conferences). Real or not, they have spoken in some sort of manner that seems to relate to tongues.

I’ve actually heard it from two of them. The first one actually speaks another language, because I heard when he said “Christ”(I’m assuming that’s what he said) he used the word “Christe” or “Christi” or something of that sort. It sort of sounded like Latin.

The second one actually spoke some language as well. Although I didn’t listen well enough to hear specific words or recognize something like “Christ.” He was speaking a language even if it was invented or something.
For this second one, I also heard him speaking very quickly in English to the praise of God. I’ve wondered whether or not others heard him at the same time speaking in tongues. Did I interpret, I wonder.

The third one, whom I haven’t actually heard, has shouted out (spoken loudly probably) in tongues at the Steubenville conferences. This is second-hand info, but some say that, at the same time, some people heard English while others heard tongues.

I don’t know what to make of it all. On the one hand I don’t think tongues would be this widespread. I think it would just be in choice (God’s choice that is) circumstances. I think that, while tongues this widespread are faith-supplying, aren’t really that reasonable. It seems that tongues should be actual languages.

On the other hand, these people who have spoken in tongues are honorable and trustworthy men. They wouldn’t lie about something like this, but I believe they could be mistaken. They could have somehow thought the Spirit overtook them, but really spoke on their own action. I don’t really know. The problem is that at least one of these men openly talks about his tongues and acts as if they were certainly real. I just don’t know.

The Church says to praise the Spirit for giving these gifts, but to be cautious about their authenticity.

I’d like to share one other experience. Other than the three men, I have heard other tongues. Once I went to a Healing Mass. It seemed that many people could easily turn their tongues on and off. For example, the two ministers (they were blessing people with oil- of course, they announced it wasn’t the sacrament of last rites) spoke in tongues for whole duration of the blessings. Also, at the moment of consecration, anyone who had spoke in tongues at the meetings spoke in tongues in unison. I just don’t think God would give tongues to so many people at once.

I think I need to read up on what the Church teaches.

Can anyone give me good Bible verses/chapters to read(any and all that you have)? Church documents? Thanks in advance.
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Hi!

The best Biblical passages on speaking in tongues are found in 1 Corinthians 14:1-40.

This is not be to confused with the reference in Acts (2:1-12) where the Apostles spoke in the various languages of the people gathered about them (which I truly believe was more an act of the various people hearing their own native languages rather than the Apostles speaking in all of them).

I have similar misgivings when it comes to “speaking in tongues” because my experience has been that *you must *speak in tongues or you are not mature spiritually till you are able to do so… both Catholic and non-Catholic groups employ too much interest in “speaking in tongues;” this is quite contrary to Scriptural Teaching that presents us with “…love…” and “…especially the gift of proclaiming God’s message…” while cautioning that “…those who speak strange tongues help only themselves, but those who proclaim God’s message help the whole Church.” Finally, “…Since you are eager to have the gifts of the Spirit, you must try above everything else to make greater use of those who help to build up the Church.”

I recall one place where I was invited to witness the “power” of the Holy Spirit… these people even had a special “learning” room where non-speakers would be intructed in the way… do you remember ever telling your Mom that you did not feel well and you had to skip school? …after a few minutes of your mind signaling your body that you were ill–you would feel ill; the power of suggestion is, as Monk would put it, “a gift… and a curse.”

Maran atha!

Angel
 
jcrichton said:
Hi!

The best Biblical passages on speaking in tongues are found in 1 Corinthians 14:1-40.

This is not be to confused with the reference in Acts (2:1-12) where the Apostles spoke in the various languages of the people gathered about them…

…

…

Maran atha!

Angel
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Thanks, Angel. This bears further study. Would you happen to know good Catechism passages?
 
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