Speaking in Tongues

[CWBetts]

Speaking in tongues can be evidence one has been filled with the Holy Spirit. Yet, does the man, if he has had hands laid upon him, but does not speak in tongues after being baptized in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, have to speak in tongues as evidence that he received the baptism?

What man can look into the heart of a man and judge such things. If the man had hands laid upon him and truly believes he has been baptized in the HS, who has the right to say he did not receive it?

Just because a man does not speak in tongues at the moment of the baptism of the Holy Spirit does not mean he will not speak in tongues as he grows in faith. The baptism of the Holy Spirit is like salvation, an act of faith.

Often times men have doubts that prevent them from praying in the spirit, but as they grow in faith, those doubts will go away if he walks in the spirit.

We are our own worst enemies when it comes to the faith. We believe things that are contrary to the faith, which can stunt our very walk of faith. So we must believe the Word of God, not the doctrines of men. Let the Holy Spirit lead us into all truth.

So I take it that you believe that speaking in tounges is the only gift? That is patently not true.

 

[Flame_of_Christ]

I think there is something to be said about the scriptural accounts of the people almost always seeming to pray in tongues when they receive the Holy Spirit. If you don’t know that this is the case, please check into the book of acts and see about this matter.

 

[CWBetts]

I think there is something to be said about the scriptural accounts of the people almost always seeming to pray in tongues when they receive the Holy Spirit. If you don’t know that this is the case, please check into the book of acts and see about this matter.

And 1 Cor 13 says that Tounges will come to an end. It also says that without love, the speaking in tounges is worthless.

 

[Flame_of_Christ]

And 1 Cor 13 says that Tounges will come to an end. It also says that without love, the speaking in tounges is worthless.

yeah but still, I was saying something else about tongues.

as far as it ending, it also says that knowledge will end in 1 Cor 13, so I don’t think that those verses refer to tongues not being important today.

let me say it this way, tongues usually are given when people receive the Holy Spirit in the biblical accounts, take that for what its worth for now. If you want to know more, let me see if I can help.

 

[CWBetts]

yeah but still, I was saying something else about tongues.

as far as it ending, it also says that knowledge will end in 1 Cor 13, so I don’t think that those verses refer to tongues not being important today.

let me say it this way, tongues usually are given when people receive the Holy Spirit in the biblical accounts, take that for what its worth for now. If you want to know more, let me see if I can help.

What I know is the that tounges is overemphasized in Charismatic circles. They tend to ignore all the other gifts of the spirit (preaching and teaching are 2 examples). Tounges is in no way a superior gift to these.

 

[Flame_of_Christ]

What I know is the that tounges is overemphasized in Charismatic circles. They tend to ignore all the other gifts of the spirit (preaching and teaching are 2 examples). Tounges is in no way a superior gift to these.

but isn’t this like saying that those in the Legion of Mary overemphasize the Rosary? They have something that others might not have and they have a certain mission to bring it to the rest of the church.

Charismatics have something similar to do. We definately do not ingore other gifts though, I am not sure why you are saying that.

As far as one gift being superior to another, why does that matter? Isn’t is good enough that the gift belongs to the Holy Spirit and can lead you and others closer to God?

 

[CWBetts]

but isn’t this like saying that those in the Legion of Mary overemphasize the Rosary? They have something that others might not have and they have a certain mission to bring it to the rest of the church.

Charismatics have something similar to do. We definately do not ingore other gifts though, I am not sure why you are saying that.

As far as one gift being superior to another, why does that matter? Isn’t is good enough that the gift belongs to the Holy Spirit and can lead you and others closer to God?

Let me be direct. The Charismatic movement originated with Pentacostal Protestants. It is the Charismatics that keep placing the emphasis on tounges. I believe emphasizing one specific gift over another is in error. Paul himself says that he would rather teach than speak in an unknown tounge. And for the record, the speaking in tounges at Pentacost was in EARTHLY LANGUAGES. Not some “heavenly language” that I have prblems even finding in the New Teastament. Even in the visions of Isaiah and John the Angels were speaking in a laguage known to those witnessing. In short the way “speaking in tounges” is used among Charismatics has no basis in Scripture or Tradition. Prove me wrong.

 

[guanophore]

What I know is the that tounges is overemphasized in Charismatic circles. They tend to ignore all the other gifts of the spirit (preaching and teaching are 2 examples). Tounges is in no way a superior gift to these.

Wow. Wonder what charismatic circles those are? They don’t sound Catholic to me.

 

[Flame_of_Christ]

Let me be direct. The Charismatic movement originated with Pentacostal Protestants. It is the Charismatics that keep placing the emphasis on tounges. I believe emphasizing one specific gift over another is in error. Paul himself says that he would rather teach than speak in an unknown tounge. And for the record, the speaking in tounges at Pentacost was in EARTHLY LANGUAGES. Not some “heavenly language” that I have prblems even finding in the New Teastament. Even in the visions of Isaiah and John the Angels were speaking in a laguage known to those witnessing. In short the way “speaking in tounges” is used among Charismatics has no basis in Scripture or Tradition. Prove me wrong.

I can see that you have alot of problems with the gift of tongues as practiced by the Catholic Charismatic Renewal. I am not sure if you would like clarification on these things or not, but if you do I will try to help.

before I try though, let me just map out what I think are the issues that you have, and you can tell me if I am wrong about what those are.

1. The Charismatic movement originated with Pentacostal Protestants.

1. It is the Charismatics that keep placing the emphasis on tounges. I believe emphasizing one specific gift over another is in error.

1. Paul himself says that he would rather teach than speak in an unknown tounge.

1. And for the record, the speaking in tounges at Pentacost was in EARTHLY LANGUAGES. Not some “heavenly language” that I have prblems even finding in the New Teastament. Even in the visions of Isaiah and John the Angels were speaking in a laguage known to those witnessing. In short the way “speaking in tounges” is used among Charismatics has no basis in Scripture or Tradition.

Would you really like me try to explain this, because I can try.

 

[guanophore]

Let me be direct. The Charismatic movement originated with Pentacostal Protestants. It is the Charismatics that keep placing the emphasis on tounges. I believe emphasizing one specific gift over another is in error. Paul himself says that he would rather teach than speak in an unknown tounge. And for the record, the speaking in tounges at Pentacost was in EARTHLY LANGUAGES. Not some “heavenly language” that I have prblems even finding in the New Teastament. Even in the visions of Isaiah and John the Angels were speaking in a laguage known to those witnessing. In short the way “speaking in tounges” is used among Charismatics has no basis in Scripture or Tradition. Prove me wrong.

Not likely, CW. If you are not willing to accept the infallible teaching of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church, what “proof” could anyone offer that would make any difference?

 

[CWBetts]

Not likely, CW. If you are not willing to accept the infallible teaching of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church, what “proof” could anyone offer that would make any difference?

That is PRECISELY the proof I am looking for. SHiw me the teachigns of the Church that show my previous statement is in error, and I will retract it immediately.

 

[Flame_of_Christ]

That is PRECISELY the proof I am looking for. SHiw me the teachigns of the Church that show my previous statement is in error, and I will retract it immediately.

I can give you examples from saints who prayed in tongues the way that we do. Would that help?

The teachings of the church about the charismatic renewal have been bretty consistant since this renewal began. I can give you those teahcings as well if you want.

 

[CWBetts]

I can give you examples from saints who prayed in tongues the way that we do. Would that help?

The teachings of the church about the charismatic renewal have been bretty consistant since this renewal began. I can give you those teahcings as well if you want.

I have never denied speaking in toiunges as a legitimate gift of the Spirit. I just contend that it is not given universally to everyone. Think of St. Paul’s many members but one body analogy.

 

[Flame_of_Christ]

I have never denied speaking in toiunges as a legitimate gift of the Spirit. I just contend that it is not given universally to everyone. Think of St. Paul’s many members but one body analogy.

St. Paul also said that he would like it if everyone spoke in tongues. This leads me to beleive that it is not wrong for the chairsmatic renewal to try to bring this gift to everyone, but yes, not all will accept it.

 

[CWBetts]

St. Paul also said that he would like it if everyone spoke in tongues. This leads me to beleive that it is not wrong for the chairsmatic renewal to try to bring this gift to everyone, but yes, not all will accept it.

You can’t just “proof text” text by taking half of a versoe out of context.

*1: Make love your aim, and earnestly desire the spiritual gifts, especially that you may prophesy.
2: For one who speaks in a tongue speaks not to men but to God; for no one understands him, but he utters mysteries in the Spirit.
3: On the other hand, he who prophesies speaks to men for their upbuilding and encouragement and consolation.
4: He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church.
5: Now I want you all to speak in tongues, but even more to prophesy. He who prophesies is greater than he who speaks in tongues, unless some one interprets, so that the church may be edified.
6: Now, brethren, if I come to you speaking in tongues, how shall I benefit you unless I bring you some revelation or knowledge or prophecy or teaching? *

Here St. Paul clearly says that the gift of prophecy is clearly superior to tounges. Why? Tongues edifies the individual, and prophecy the whole Church. This is why I think the emphasis on tongues is in error. Scripturally speaking, it is not the greatest of gifts, and is not for everyone. Why? We are different members hafe different functions. Instead of trying to convince people that speaking in tongues is somehow superior to other gifts, shouldn’t we be encouraging the faithful to strive to have thier gift revealed?

 

[Flame_of_Christ]

You can’t just “proof text” text by taking half of a versoe out of context.

*1: Make love your aim, and earnestly desire the spiritual gifts, especially that you may prophesy.
2: For one who speaks in a tongue speaks not to men but to God; for no one understands him, but he utters mysteries in the Spirit.
3: On the other hand, he who prophesies speaks to men for their upbuilding and encouragement and consolation.
4: He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church.
5: Now I want you all to speak in tongues, but even more to prophesy. He who prophesies is greater than he who speaks in tongues, unless some one interprets, so that the church may be edified.
6: Now, brethren, if I come to you speaking in tongues, how shall I benefit you unless I bring you some revelation or knowledge or prophecy or teaching? *

Here St. Paul clearly says that the gift of prophecy is clearly superior to tounges. Why? Tongues edifies the individual, and prophecy the whole Church. This is why I think the emphasis on tongues is in error. Scripturally speaking, it is not the greatest of gifts, and is not for everyone. Why? We are different members hafe different functions. Instead of trying to convince people that speaking in tongues is somehow superior to other gifts, shouldn’t we be encouraging the faithful to strive to have thier gift revealed?

St. Paul had a purpose for writing what he worte in that par tof scripture that you have quoted.

From what I read, it says several things to us (it is a teaching on Spiritual gifts):

Seek love above all, but do not neglect to seek the spiritual gifts.

Praying in tongues is a special prayer that an individual can have with God.

Prophecy builds up the church community (because it gives them a message from God)

Speaking in tongues builds up a person. This is good.

Prophecy builds up the church. This is very good.

Paul wants us all to speak in tongues, and even more so, he wants us to prophesy.

Seek the spiritual gifts! Gosh I don’t think you are giving the Charismatic Renewal enough credit for helping people seek the gifts.

You seem to be mad that we are trying to help people have the gift on tongues. But why is would you be mad that we are trying to fullfill something spiritual? You are fighting against other members of the church my brother, when we have a holy goal.

 

[severntofall]

Is it any more foolish than saving sinners through "the foolishness of the Cross " ? (that BTW is St Paul in 1 Corinthians 1 - not this poster) The Apostles at Pentecost were thought to be drunk (Acts 2). ​

Two reasons why I stopped beiing a Christian long ago.

 

[severntofall]

You say tongues is silly. Yet, to protect your stand so others cannot use it to bebunk your doctrine, you refuse to name your denomination.

You kind of sound like the church of Christ. Come on, you can tell us. Do you believe in baptism?

I am only certain that a sane god would not insist upon his followers being insane.

 

[heiscominginthe]

I am only certain that a sane god would not insist upon his followers being insane.

So if you don’t believe in God, why come here?

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

Two reasons why I stopped beiing a Christian long ago.

Would it be OK to ask how they are reasons against faith in Christ ? People have all kinds of difficulties - but how are* those* problems ?​