Speaking in Tongues

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Gottle_of_Geer said:

Would it be OK to ask how they are reasons against faith in Christ :confused: ? People have all kinds of difficulties - but how are* those* problems ?​

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The whole claimed purpose of Jesus’ mission is absurd to the point of lunacy. The notion that he had to commit suicide on a Roman cross, to pay himself for a debt he insisted we owed him because Adam and Eve ate a piece of his fruit thousands of years prior. It’s madness, utter madness and I’d be ashamed to admit that this was the centeral aspect of my beliefs.

The part about the disciples getting drunk on the Holy Spirit is just plain silly, but no where near as absurd as the theology of OS.
 
severntofall said:
The whole claimed purpose of Jesus’ mission is absurd to the point of lunacy. The notion that he had to commit suicide on a Roman cross, to pay himself for a debt he insisted we owed him because Adam and Eve ate a piece of his fruit thousands of years prior. It’s madness, utter madness and I’d be ashamed to admit that this was the centeral aspect of my beliefs.

The part about the disciples getting drunk on the Holy Spirit is just plain silly, but no where near as absurd as the theology of OS.
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Why don’t you believe in Jesus anymore?
 
CWBetts said:
That is PRECISELY the proof I am looking for. SHiw me the teachigns of the Church that show my previous statement is in error, and I will retract it immediately.
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CW, the NT is the teaching of the Church. The reason the NT mentions tongues of angels is because this is the experience of the Church. The fact that you can “hardly find it” does not mean it ceases to exist.

1 Cor 13:1
13:1 If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal.

1 Cor 14:2-3
2 For one who speaks in a tongue speaks not to men but to God; for no one understands him, but he utters mysteries in the Spirit.

There is a prayer language that is not of this earth, in which the Spirit prays through a believer. In this language, the mind is unfruitful, but the spirit is built up. It is used often when the person does not know how to pray as he ought, but the Spirit prays through the believer.

You may not like it, you may not “see” it, you may feel you have no need of it, you may believe it does not belong to the One Divine Deposit of Faith that was given to the Church. You rejection of the gift, does not nullify it for those of us who have received it. Your refusal to accept it does not take away it’s power.
 
Flame_of_Christ said:
Why don’t you believe in Jesus anymore?
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Several years of seminary can do that to a person. I do honestly believe that the person existed, and that he was likely an enlightened teacher, perhaps a great man…but nothing more at least IMO.
 
severntofall said:
Several years of seminary can do that to a person. I do honestly believe that the person existed, and that he was likely an enlightened teacher, perhaps a great man…but nothing more at least IMO.
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do you believe that he spoke unlike any other man ever did?
 
CWBetts said:
I have never denied speaking in toiunges as a legitimate gift of the Spirit. I just contend that it is not given universally to everyone. Think of St. Paul’s many members but one body analogy.
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I am relieved to hear this.

The whole Spirit is given to everyone, and all that the Spirit manifests is infused into each of us:

1 Cor 12:4-6

4 Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit; 5 and there are varieties of service, but the same Lord; 6 and there are varieties of working, but it is the same God who inspires them all in every one.

The same God inspired them all in every one. That means that every one has access to all of them.

When Paul encourages us to seek the gifts, he does not exclude any. 1 Cor 14:1
“earnestly desire the spiritual gifts”

Paul wrote acknowledged that the Corinthians did not lack any gift;

1 Cor 1:5-7
6 even as the testimony to Christ was confirmed among you - 7 so that you are not lacking in any spiritual gift, as you wait for the revealing of our Lord Jesus Christ;

Why would you want to exclude any?
 
CWBetts said:
You can’t just “proof text” text by taking half of a versoe out of context.

*1: Make love your aim, and earnestly desire the spiritual gifts, especially that you may prophesy.
2: For one who speaks in a tongue speaks not to men but to God; for no one understands him, but he utters mysteries in the Spirit.
3: On the other hand, he who prophesies speaks to men for their upbuilding and encouragement and consolation.
4: He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church.
5: Now I want you all to speak in tongues, but even more to prophesy. He who prophesies is greater than he who speaks in tongues, unless some one interprets, so that the church may be edified.
6: Now, brethren, if I come to you speaking in tongues, how shall I benefit you unless I bring you some revelation or knowledge or prophecy or teaching? *

Here St. Paul clearly says that the gift of prophecy is clearly superior to tounges. Why? Tongues edifies the individual, and prophecy the whole Church. This is why I think the emphasis on tongues is in error.
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Of course, you are right about the reason prophesy is more valuable to the Church. It may be that there is too much emphasis on tongues. Tongues is an entry level gift, and one of the easiest to learn to use. It also functions to build up the believer, so that he can be more spiritually disposed to exercise other higher gifts, such as prophesy.
CWBetts said:
Scripturally speaking, it is not the greatest of gifts, and is not for everyone. Why?
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Honestly, I can’t see why you perceive it that way. Paul says he prays in tongues more than all of them,and that he hopes that they will also. He just wants them to continue to develop toward the higher gifts, and not be stuck at entry level.

The fact that it is not “greatest” some how, in your mind, makes it useless.
CWBetts said:
We are different members hafe different functions. Instead of trying to convince people that speaking in tongues is somehow superior to other gifts, shouldn’t we be encouraging the faithful to strive to have thier gift revealed? 🤷
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I agree. One of the benefits of tongues is that it facilitates so well the discovery of other gifts. Once a person has learned to yield to, and use this elementary gift, it lays a foundation upon which to build the “higher” gifts. I agree with you that it is not superior, but that does not mean it should be ignored either. Have you ever tried to teach someone to prophesy? It is much more difficult to do so if one has not used any other gifts.
 
guanophore said:
Of course, you are right about the reason prophesy is more valuable to the Church. It may be that there is too much emphasis on tongues. Tongues is an entry level gift, and one of the easiest to learn to use. It also functions to build up the believer, so that he can be more spiritually disposed to exercise other higher gifts, such as prophesy.

Honestly, I can’t see why you perceive it that way. Paul says he prays in tongues more than all of them,and that he hopes that they will also. He just wants them to continue to develop toward the higher gifts, and not be stuck at entry level.

The fact that it is not “greatest” some how, in your mind, makes it useless.

I agree. One of the benefits of tongues is that it facilitates so well the discovery of other gifts. Once a person has learned to yield to, and use this elementary gift, it lays a foundation upon which to build the “higher” gifts. I agree with you that it is not superior, but that does not mean it should be ignored either. Have you ever tried to teach someone to prophesy? It is much more difficult to do so if one has not used any other gifts.
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Are you saying that since I have NEVER spoken in tounges, that I have no gifts whatsoever, because tounges is as you put it “entry level”? As for “teaching” others to use gfts, I am not so sure aI follow you. It is my understanding that they are bestowed by the Spirit, and cannot be “taught”
 
CWBetts said:
Are you saying that since I have NEVER spoken in tounges, that I have no gifts whatsoever, because tounges is as you put it “entry level”? As for “teaching” others to use gfts, I am not so sure aI follow you. It is my understanding that they are bestowed by the Spirit, and cannot be “taught”
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I can vouch for myself and for others that I know, in that after praying in tongues, I began to be able to surrender to the other gifts like healing, prophecy, word of knowledge, etc. I have read some articles on this experience and why for some reason it seems to be the case that tongues “opens a person up.” I agree mostly because it my own experience as well.

check out this article for an in depth view on why tongues is helpful to receiving these other gifts:

catholiccharismatic.us/ccc/articles/Van_Cleef/Gifts/tongues_a.html
 
CWBetts said:
Are you saying that since I have NEVER spoken in tounges, that I have no gifts whatsoever, because tounges is as you put it “entry level”?
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Actually,I am saying the opposite. If you look at the scriptures I posted, it is clear that the Spirit gives each of the gifts to everyone. Catholics are infused with the HS at baptism and confirmation. There may also be other non-formal infillings of the HS.

What I am saying is that each baptized person has the potential for all the gifts.

Most never learn to use any of them - they are like unwrapped packages. 😃

I did say that tongues is an “entry level” gift.
Muslim_Woman said:
As for “teaching” others to use gfts, I am not so sure aI follow you. It is my understanding that they are bestowed by the Spirit, and cannot be “taught”
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They are bestowed by the Spirit. Just like any gift, they need to be unwrapped, and put to use. Most have no clue how this is done.
 
Originally Posted by Muslim Woman
As for “teaching” others to use gfts, I am not so sure aI follow you. It is my understanding that they are bestowed by the Spirit, and cannot be “taught”
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Muslim woman? lol, I think she would have to receive Jesus as her Lord before she received the Holy Spirit and the gifts!
 
People are so obsessed with tongues but i don’t see or haer anyone asking for the other gifts that Paul lists in 1 Corinthians 12:8-10

What does the BIBLE have to say about tongues as this is the only authority we should be using?

The ability to use diverse Tongues (language) is a gift from God? 1 Corinthians 12:4, 9-10.
The BIBLE tells us that not everyone has the same calling or gift 1 Corinthians 12:28-30

I personally do not believe in tongues being an unknown heavenly language as Acts 2 : 4-11 gives a different perspective. On the day of pentecost the apostles recieved the Holy Spirit and they spoken in the tongues (languages) of the Medes, Elamites, Cretes etc. Acts 2 : 6 tells us those that heard the apostles speaking in tongues marvelled because every man heard them speak in HIS own language.

If you do believe in heavenly tongues there are rules set out for spoeaking in a different language 1 Corinthians 14 : 27 if any mand speak in an unknown tongue, let ie be two, or at the most by three, and that by course: and let one interpret. The BIBLE is telling us that only a maximum of 3 people can speak in a different lanuguage and they must take it in turns.
In 1 Corinthians 14 :28 tells us plainly if there be no interpreter let him keep silence in the church

If one speaks in tongues and no-one can interpret then they should remain silent

Please do not use Benny Hinn as a figure of Christianity. The BIBLE is clear in Isaiah 8 :20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them. In Matt 24 :24 Christ himself tells us that there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders: insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Matt 7 : 22 & 23 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesised in thy name? and in thy name cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will i profess unto them, i never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
 
Remnant_church said:
People are so obsessed with tongues but i don’t see or haer anyone asking for the other gifts that Paul lists in 1 Corinthians 12:8-10

What does the BIBLE have to say about tongues as this is the only authority we should be using?
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The topic of this thread is tongues, Remnant. If you want to discuss the other gifts, you might consider starting a new thread.

The scripture does not say of itself that it is the only authority we should be using. This is a man made extrabibilal doctrine into which you have fallen.
 
Question is do you believe The Holy BIBLE to be the the word of God?

Ephesisans 3 : 16 - ALL scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.

I am willing to listen to another persons thoughts on the scripture because even modern day prophets are not in the BIBLE but as Isaiah 8 : 20 says to the law and testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them

1 Corinthians 4 :6 …that ye might learn in us not to think of men above that which is written

So in actual fact the BIBLE is our only authority because any extrabibilical doctrine which doesn’t coincide with the word of God hasn’t come from God. Not my words the BIBLE’S.
 
Remnant_church said:
Question is do you believe The Holy BIBLE to be the the word of God?

Ephesisans 3 : 16 - ALL scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.

I am willing to listen to another persons thoughts on the scripture because even modern day prophets are not in the BIBLE but as Isaiah 8 : 20 says to the law and testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them

1 Corinthians 4 :6 …that ye might learn in us not to think of men above that which is written

So in actual fact the BIBLE is our only authority because any extrabibilical doctrine which doesn’t coincide with the word of God hasn’t come from God. Not my words the BIBLE’S.
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This is not a Sola Scriptura thread. But you are mistaken in your interperetation of 2 Timiothy 3:16. (Not Ephesians!). In context, you would see that pall is talkng specifically about the Old Testament. More importantly, he is telling us the uses for Scriptures, but in no way is exclusivisity implied.
 
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