Speaking in Tongues

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I’ll side with a Doctor of the Church rather than subjective experience:
In the earliest times, “the Holy Ghost fell upon them that believed: and they spoke with tongues,” which they had not learned, “as the Spirit gave them utterance.” Acts 2:4 These were signs adapted to the time. For there behooved to be that betokening of the Holy Spirit in all tongues, to show that the Gospel of God was to run through all tongues over the whole earth. That thing was done for a betokening, and it passed away. In the laying on of hands now, that persons may receive the Holy Ghost.
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St. Augustine, Homily VI on the First Epistle of John
 
netmil(name removed by moderator) said:
WOW!
"…and it passed away. In the laying on of hands now, that persons may receive the Holy Ghost. "

So why don’t people believe this?
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Dunno. I am actually a convert from a Pentecostal denomination and although I intellectually believed in the ability to speak in tongues, I was never able to conjure it up (some actually suggested I should just start babbling to kick-start the whole process).

I think it pretty clear from Scripture that speaking in tongues was predominately simply speaking miraculously in a foreign language. We also have quotes from many Church Fathers that say that the gift has ceased. I don’t think we should be imitating a Protestant movement that has only slightly more than 100 years of historicity.
 
Michael_Welter said:
However, even if it is the least, if it is a gift from God, why would anyone reject it? .
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Hi Michael,

Sometimes, things are not quite clear to some people. Because of this, they don’t want to use the gift just to make sure they do not offend God unintentionally. I am one of those people. As I still do not deny about the gift, I am slowly learning about it by praying more and more each day.

I have talked to few people with the gifts, and I know that not all the time what they sang(in tongue) are from God. One guy sang a song in which it says that human beings some above all things. I found this really odd as God is above all things.

Another lady has some sort of gift and she has hard time believing in everything in Catholic and she says that she cannot read Catholic Bible because it gives her headache. She bases on her feeling to conclude what is from God and what not. I’ve again found this very confusing.
 
Michael_Welter said:
I received the gift of tongues in 1972, and since then, it has been a very important part of my personal prayer life. The gift of tongues is primarily for personal growth, so if I use it at Mass, I keep it quiet, so no one else can hear it. The only exception to this would be a Charismatic Mass, in which case most of the people would pray out loud in tongues together. It sounds like angels in that setting, and is just beautiful.

Keep in mind that the Mass is communal in nature, and the gift of tongues is primarily personal. That is why you will rarely see them used at Mass.
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I had thought that the gift of “Tongues” was for communication not something that you use personally. If it is primarily for personal use, I don’t really see the sense in it. Historically, I don’t think it was for personal edification and prayer was it?
 
No body is touching my post number 4 and even attempting to answer my question here. And a member of the Charasmatic renewal is posting on this thread and can not or will not answer it.

See my point?
 
Damascus said:
No body is touching my post number 4 and even attempting to answer my question here. And a member of the Charasmatic renewal is posting on this thread and can not or will not answer it.

See my point?
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Nor post 20. I’m not quite getting the idea of the church approving the gift if the gift has ended. With that, your question of “who” this gift comes from is a valid one.
 
I have posted on this topic many times. I never get an answer to my questions.

I have reminded people that speaking in tongues is not strictly a christian thing.

No one seems to mind that. I read water’s post and frankly, I had to stop myself from banging my head up against the wall in frustration, but that seemed as useless as trying to get an answer to my questions here.

I have a word of caution for the “dabblers” that are trying to “conjure up” this speaking in tongues.

**Caution. **That’s the word to have in your mind friends.

Frankly, its no secret to posters who know me here how I feel about this issue.

A “renewal” should do some renewing. I dont see it. In fact, I would argue that since its inception the Chruch has gone through more strife than it did before this “renewal” came about.
 
Damascus said:
Have you read the book A New Song for the Lord? (Holy Father)

p 176 (from De otatione dominica 4,csel 3,1 ed. Hartel pp 268-69 translated into english from german)
St. Cyprian’s Interpretation of Our Father:
Discipline wich includes tranquillity and awe, belongs to words and posture of the praying. We should be mindful that we are standing before the eyes of God. One must please the divine eyes through the posture of the body and the implementation of its voice shamelessness expresses itself in vulgar shouting; it is proper for the reverent one to pray in timid words…when we come together as one with our brothers and celebrate the divine sacrifice with the Priest, we must not stir the air with formless sounds nor fling our petitions to God with extensive palaver wich should instead be humbly commended to him because God…does not need to be reminded through our shouting.

I ask, who is qualifyed to determine if the speaking is coming from the Holy Spirit?

Who? Now, speaking in tongues is not only a Christian practice mind you.

Let me know.👍
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I don’t know if speaking in toungues has passed as was quoted by arieh0310.

My experience is that if your with people that you know and trust , then the person qualified to determine if it is from the Holy Spirit is the person that has the gift of INTERPRETATION.
 
CALDE said:
I don’t know if speaking in toungues has passed as was quoted by arieh0310.

My experience is that if your with people that you know and trust , then the person qualified to determine if it is from the Holy Spirit is the person that has the gift of INTERPRETATION.
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Okay that sounds good but the devil also comes as an angel of light sometimes.
How do you know that, even those we know and trust are not being fooled?
Do you believe what St. Augustine said?
 
CALDE said:
I don’t know if speaking in toungues has passed as was quoted by arieh0310.

I think it was Augustine who made the assertation., arieh0310 was merely citing it.
My experience is that if your with people that you know and trust , then the person qualified to determine if it is from the Holy Spirit is the person that has the gift of INTERPRETATION.
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Good question. The gift of interpretation. Now, how does one get that qualification and from who?
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So basically what we have here so far is “knowing” a person and “trusting” a person. Ok. Seems to me lots of folks do that when they get married and look how that one turns out.😦

So far all I am getting out of all this is there are no real qualifications and no real appointed person to determine who has them or not, and if there is I still have yet to hear who it is and what their qualifications are.

This is confusing.
 
I am not trying to doubt, but I am trying to be in a defensive mode - meaning that if I don’t even know if my discernment is good then I better pray with the rosary 🙂

Some people I know told me that because we pray in tongue, Satan cannot understand it; therefore, Satan gets mad at us. I don’t see why this is so important. Satan can always get mad at us for praying Rosary, etc…anyway.

Another thing, Satan can pretend to be an angel - I know one case where this person thought it was an angel and she did eveything the ‘angel’ asked her to do - but later to find out it was not angel for this ‘angel’ keep asking the lady to destroy things at home such as piano (which her husband loves a lot), and other things.

On the other hands, I see all people with praying in tongue, they’ve become closer to God each day.

As long as we do things according to the Church and not get far from God, we’re safe. I believe that even if Satan can go far pretending, God will protect those people if their purpose of praying in tongue is to praise Him - I hope He will stop Satan at some point.

…still, I prefer the Rosary and other prayers in the language that I and others can understand.
 
water said:
Some people I know told me that because we pray in tongue, Satan cannot understand it; therefore, Satan gets mad at us. I don’t see why this is so important. Satan can always get mad at us for praying Rosary, etc…anyway.
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I’m sorry, I don’t understand at all.
If the gift of tongues is truly a human language how is it that God can understand it but the devil cannot?
Another thing, Satan can pretend to be an angel - I know one case where this person thought it was an angel and she did eveything the ‘angel’ asked her to do - but later to find out it was not angel for this ‘angel’ keep asking the lady to destroy things at home such as piano (which her husband loves a lot), and other things.
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WHOA! Have you read anything on demonic possession? You’re playing with fire here and opening a door you don’t really want to open.
On the other hands, I see all people with praying in tongue, they’ve become closer to God each day.
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How do you know that they wouldn’t be drawing closer to God with the Divine Mercy Chaplet or any other devotion?
 
water said:
I am not trying to doubt, but I am trying to be in a defensive mode - meaning that if I don’t even know if my discernment is good then I better pray with the rosary 🙂

Some people I know told me that because we pray in tongue, Satan cannot understand it; therefore, Satan gets mad at us. I don’t see why this is so important. Satan can always get mad at us for praying Rosary, etc…anyway.

Another thing, Satan can pretend to be an angel - I know one case where this person thought it was an angel and she did eveything the ‘angel’ asked her to do - but later to find out it was not angel for this ‘angel’ keep asking the lady to destroy things at home such as piano (which her husband loves a lot), and other things.

On the other hands, I see all people with praying in tongue, they’ve become closer to God each day.

As long as we do things according to the Church and not get far from God, we’re safe. I believe that even if Satan can go far pretending, God will protect those people if their purpose of praying in tongue is to praise Him - I hope He will stop Satan at some point.

…still, I prefer the Rosary and other prayers in the language that I and others can understand.
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Satan does not have to pretend to be an angel. He is an angel. He is a fallen angel. He is still however, theologically speaking an angel. Angels were created by God to serve God and man. They are purely spiritual beings with great intellect and power. A group of them revolted and were cast out of Heaven. They were lead by Lucifer whose name means light of the dawn, one of the most beautiful and powerful angels.

Every demon as the other fallen angels are called has powers and abilities far beyond anything that man has and because of it can trick us, fool us and use us to obatin their way. As humans we cannot defeat them and we need the power of Christ to help us in battle with them.

Trust me, Lucifer and the other demons can easily understand when you talk in tongues. If it is an angelic language they can understand because they are angels. It is their language. If it is human language they can understand because they were created to serve us and to serve us they need to understand us in everything we do… Ever wonder why sin feels so good and why these little thoughts keep popping into your head? Demons know how to tempt you and know what you want.

Another thing. Just because something appears to be angelic doesn’t mean its good. Be careful. Some seem to have avery limited understanding of the world of angels and demons.
 
arieh0310 said:
Dunno. I am actually a convert from a Pentecostal denomination and although I intellectually believed in the ability to speak in tongues, I was never able to conjure it up (some actually suggested I should just start babbling to kick-start the whole process).

I think it pretty clear from Scripture that speaking in tongues was predominately simply speaking miraculously in a foreign language. We also have quotes from many Church Fathers that say that the gift has ceased. I don’t think we should be imitating a Protestant movement that has only slightly more than 100 years of historicity.
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I agree.

Your experience sounds like something I talked about on a similar thread previously. I’ll just quote it to save time:
AuntMartha said:
Why are there so many who have the gift of tongues, and why are so many babbling nonsense? Wouldn’t at least a few of them be able to speak in a language that is in common use today? Why is it that the gift of tongues these days is a language that no one can understand, and anyone off the street can come in and garble a few syllables that are indiscernable, and yet people think that ability (uttering words that make no sense) is some gift?

Yes, I know - I’ve heard people say that these are groanings of the Holy Spirit. But how do you know if it is just yourself groaning and going “ibba, googa, dooga” or (as I once heard) “Shhhhhh, pitta, pitta, pitta” or if the Holy Spirit just decided to come down and do that?

I had a friend in college who told me this story about the time he felt forced into praying in tongues. He was not Catholic; he was going to some Pentecostal Protestant church with some people he met and got to know. He told me that they kept pressuring him about how he isn’t really worshipping if he doesn’t speak in tongues, he’s really not “in the Spirit” unless he speaks in tongues, and so forth. You know, that you’re not really holy unless you are making a big, dramatic show of it. He got so tired of this and felt so pressured that he did the following: He was a guitarist, and his group of frinds in high school did the garage band deal. One time they were all goofing off and they made up this song using nonsense syllables. It was something like “Arten dee-oh yah, yah, yah!” and so forth with other nonsense for the whole song. So he finally started reciting these nonsense lyrics from his garage band days, in a prayerful pose for these Pentecostals, and they were so impressed at his “ability” to speak in tongues!
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For the past several years, my aging mother has been sruggling with health issues, but through it all, has remained mentally alert, and maintained her spirituality and sense of humor. However, this past Tuesday, she had a seizure, and blacked out. When she fell, she hit her head.

When she was revived by the Paramedics, she had completely lost her memory. She had no knowledge of who she was, or who anyone else was around her. My sister, who, with her husband, lives with my mom, took care of her, and began teaching her who she was, and who everyone else was in the family.

Wednesday evening, while in the hospital, the nurse brought dinner to my mom. Mom made the sign of the cross, prayed, and then began to eat. My sister, seeing a ray of hope, asked mom if she remembered that. Mom looked puzzled, and said that she remembered that. Then she told my sister that earlier that day, she felt Jesus asking her to pray for a young woman who was there in the hospital. Mom told my sister that she had prayed “in another language.” My sister said, “You prayed in tongues?” Mom replied, “I don’t what it’s called, I just prayed in another language.”

It’s clear that mom didn’t remember praying in tongues, although she has had that gift for many years. But the Holy Spirit has been strong in her for many years, and continues to be, even while she recovers from amnesia.

Those who claim that gift of tongues “went away” are missing an important point. If the gift “went away” then it can come back as well. Who are we to limit how God can work in this world. I have used the gift as an important part of my personal prayer life for years, and have come significantly closer to God during these years. Believe me, I am not faking it. I didn’t make it up. If you don’t want to believe it, I really don’t care. I also do not believe that you are any more, or less, spiritual than me because of this. God works in each of us differently. You are all my brothers and sisters, and I love you all equally.

May our Lord’s blessings be upon you.
 
Micheal,

I dont claim that God has limitations at all. In fact I think his providence is beyond our understanding.

I am only asking questions that dont get any answers. You say your Mom had the gift for years.

Tell us where she hooked up to it. Charasmatic renewal?

Even so, I have questions no one is touching with a ten foot pole and no one has on this forum to date.

Why cant anyone respond with a clear answer to this?
 
Michael_Welter said:
For the past several years, my aging mother has been sruggling with health issues, but through it all, has remained mentally alert, and maintained her spirituality and sense of humor. However, this past Tuesday, she had a seizure, and blacked out. When she fell, she hit her head.

When she was revived by the Paramedics, she had completely lost her memory. She had no knowledge of who she was, or who anyone else was around her. My sister, who, with her husband, lives with my mom, took care of her, and began teaching her who she was, and who everyone else was in the family.

Wednesday evening, while in the hospital, the nurse brought dinner to my mom. Mom made the sign of the cross, prayed, and then began to eat. My sister, seeing a ray of hope, asked mom if she remembered that. Mom looked puzzled, and said that she remembered that. Then she told my sister that earlier that day, she felt Jesus asking her to pray for a young woman who was there in the hospital. Mom told my sister that she had prayed “in another language.” My sister said, “You prayed in tongues?” Mom replied, “I don’t what it’s called, I just prayed in another language.”

It’s clear that mom didn’t remember praying in tongues, although she has had that gift for many years. But the Holy Spirit has been strong in her for many years, and continues to be, even while she recovers from amnesia.

Those who claim that gift of tongues “went away” are missing an important point. If the gift “went away” then it can come back as well. Who are we to limit how God can work in this world. I have used the gift as an important part of my personal prayer life for years, and have come significantly closer to God during these years. Believe me, I am not faking it. I didn’t make it up. If you don’t want to believe it, I really don’t care. I also do not believe that you are any more, or less, spiritual than me because of this. God works in each of us differently. You are all my brothers and sisters, and I love you all equally.

May our Lord’s blessings be upon you.
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Michael, calm down. Look, valid points have ben raised that many others and I would like to know the answer to. We have not been so touched by the Holy Spirit as you say you have been. But lets look at something. You have said it is primarily for personal growth. I don’t think at least scripturally, that is what it was for. In fact, I seem to remember that it was pretty much a communal thing and that you needed others to interpret. Has that changed? Also, on the day of Pentecost everyone could understand what everyone else was saying. Yet in your scenario no one understands except possibly yourself .

Two, an interesting point has been brought up that not only Christians speak in tongues. Voodoo devotees and other afro Caribbean cults make extensive use of talking in tongues. The language I’m told, I haven’t heard it, is strikingly similar to that used in Christian services. Tibetian Buddists use it as do various indigenous groups in the americas and possibly elsewhere. Would you say that the Holy Spirit is also working through the practicioners of these sects?

These and other issues such as charismatic snake handlers and strychnine drinkers in the Applachaian mountains for example have led me to believe that the entire modern tongue talking movement is flawed at best and possibly something else in the worse case scenario, I’m not criticising, I just want to know how these things can be reconciled.

Please don’t take offense. I really want to understand.
 
Damascus said:
You say your Mom had the gift for years.

Tell us where she hooked up to it. Charasmatic renewal?
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Yes, I got involved in the Charismatic Renewal in High School, and got my parents involved. They both received the gift of tongues.
Damascus said:
Why cant anyone respond with a clear answer to this?
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I’m not trying to avoid questions. And I don’t claim to be an expert in the area of tongues. I have read many Catholic books on the subject, but the workings of the Holy Spirit are often beyond my feeble mind. :rolleyes:
 
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