Speaking in Tongues

[Michael_Welter]

You have said it is primarily for personal growth. I don’t think at least scripturally, that is what it was for. In fact, I seem to remember that it was pretty much a communal thing and that you needed others to interpret. Has that changed? Also, on the day of Pentecost everyone could understand what everyone else was saying. Yet in your scenario no one understands except possibly yourself .

I have witnessed different manifestations of the gift. The gift that I have is called prayer tongues. I cannot possible worship God as He truly deserves, and often, while I am praying, I begin to pray in tongues. I don’t understand the language, and, as far as I know, no one else has listened to me pray in tongues, so I don’t think anyone else would understand me, either. God understands, and that’s all that matters to me.

Two, an interesting point has been brought up that not only Christians speak in tongues. Voodoo devotees and other afro Caribbean cults make extensive use of talking in tongues. The language I’m told, I haven’t heard it, is strikingly similar to that used in Christian services. Tibetian Buddists use it as do various indigenous groups in the americas and possibly elsewhere. Would you say that the Holy Spirit is also working through the practicioners of these sects?

Interesting point. I wasn’t aware of these other phenomenon, so I can’t really address it with any type of knowledge.

These and other issues such as charismatic snake handlers and strychnine drinkers in the Applachaian mountains for example have led me to believe that the entire modern tongue talking movement is flawed at best and possibly something else in the worse case scenario, I’m not criticising, I just want to know how these things can be reconciled.

I gave up snake handling years ago. Just kidding, of course. I have seen many instances of Satan doing things that will mimick actions of the Holy Spirit, but you can tell by the fruits that it is an act of Satan. I have known hundreds of people who have received the gift of tongues from God, and the fruit is always deep spiritual growth.

Please don’t take offense. I really want to understand.

I could never take offense at you, palmas. You’re one of my favorite poster here. I don’t always agree with you, but I have grown to love and respect you.

 

[palmas85]

I have witnessed different manifestations of the gift. The gift that I have is called prayer tongues. I cannot possible worship God as He truly deserves, and often, while I am praying, I begin to pray in tongues. I don’t understand the language, and, as far as I know, no one else has listened to me pray in tongues, so I don’t think anyone else would understand me, either. God understands, and that’s all that matters to me.

Interesting point. I wasn’t aware of these other phenomenon, so I can’t really address it with any type of knowledge.

I gave up snake handling years ago. Just kidding, of course. I have seen many instances of Satan doing things that will mimick actions of the Holy Spirit, but you can tell by the fruits that it is an act of Satan. I have known hundreds of people who have received the gift of tongues from God, and the fruit is always deep spiritual growth.

I could never take offense at you, palmas. You’re one of my favorite poster here. I don’t always agree with you, but I have grown to love and respect you.

I don’t know, I’m not sure that all of it is from the Holy Spirit, and I think that is my main objection, you don’t know. Being in the line of work that I am you get to know the dirty side of humanity intimately. I’ve seen way too much evil that came from supposed tongue speakers, Jim Jones jumps to mind as does David Koresh, both of whom claimed the gift. I just cannot accept that it is all genuine and unless you are personally touched by the Holy Spirit or have a keen discernement of evil presences, how would you know if it is genuine in yourself or in others?

Many people forget that Satan is alive and well and working overtime these days and being an angel, albeit a fallen one, for him to influence people using this particular gift or his version of it, wouldn’t seem a hard thing to do.

I have never doubted that some people do have the gift and always have. i don’t think that everyone who believes that they have it actually do and that some of them are in fact being tricked.

Wishing you and yours a very Merry Christmas

May the Peace of Christ Jesus always be with you.

 

[AuntMartha]

The thing that confuses me (and totally makes me doubt that babbling garbled words is the gift of tongues spoken about in the Bible) is that it seems the only people who are “given” the gift are those who go to Pentecostal Churches or to Catholic Churches that are part of the Charismatic renewal.

Doesn’t that seem a little too coincidental to anyone else?

It just seems like people are being influenced to claim this gift because everyone else in the church they go to claim to have this gift. It’s very odd because at the Churches in my area, I don’t hear anyone babbling incoherent words (except at a Christian homeschool group I go to, where we were praying, and that’s where I heard that lady going, “Shhhhhh, pitta, pitta, pitta” and got a little freaked out) but I do see a lot of very reverent Catholics who love the Lord and have a deep spiritual life who manage to do so without uttering nonsense syllables.

Frankly I’d feel like a moron making incomprehensible noises while praying. Try one of the languages in common use in the world today! It will make more sense to both you and God!

 

[Michael_Welter]

I don’t know, I’m not sure that all of it is from the Holy Spirit, and I think that is my main objection, you don’t know. Being in the line of work that I am you get to know the dirty side of humanity intimately. I’ve seen way too much evil that came from supposed tongue speakers, Jim Jones jumps to mind as does David Koresh, both of whom claimed the gift. I just cannot accept that it is all genuine and unless you are personally touched by the Holy Spirit or have a keen discernement of evil presences, how would you know if it is genuine in yourself or in others?

All I know is that my gift is from the Holy Spirit. I can’t speak for others, nor do I want to. I agree that many who claim the gift are evil. But that can be said of any spiritual manifestation. There are even priests and bishops who are evil. If my gift came from Satan, then it has backfired on him. When I pray in tongues, I am drawn closer to God.

Wishing you and yours a very Merry Christmas

May the Peace of Christ Jesus always be with you.

And with you, too.

 

[Michael_Welter]

but I do see a lot of very reverent Catholics who love the Lord and have a deep spiritual life who manage to do so without uttering nonsense syllables.

I am one of them. I have the gift of tongues, but I do not utter nonsense syllables. The language that God has given me cannot be described as nonsense. Nothing that comes from God is nonsense.

 

[runandsew]

I was listening to a tape by the late Archimandrite Father Stephen Barham, who came from a Pentecostal background, was talking about why more Catholics do not receive the gift tongues when they are confirmed. He mentioned that Father John Corapi said that it was because they were not taught what to expect when they were sealed with the Holy Spirit. If they were taught everything that the Holy Spirit would and could do that more Catholics would possess the charismatic gifts.

 

[DWPC]

Reading threads like this one scares me about the future of the Church. If the Holy Spirit moves one, it will be to help a neighbor in trouble, or feed the hungry, or sit with someone alone and dieing…or even learn a language so you can work for Christ in some 3rd World land. It won’t be to babble in a demonstration of self-absorbed zeal.

 

[Damascus]

I was listening to a tape by the late Archimandrite Father Stephen Barham, who came from a Pentecostal background, was talking about why more Catholics do not receive the gift tongues when they are confirmed. He mentioned that Father John Corapi said that it was because they were not taught what to expect when they were sealed with the Holy Spirit. If they were taught everything that the Holy Spirit would and could do that more Catholics would possess the charismatic gifts.

Fantastic!

Did he tell you How Who and what can determine the integrity of the H.S. being in the ones that do this?

Again, no answer.

The only answer I have Ever gotten is that there is a “Liason”

And my friends, I could elaborate, yet the “renewal” movement that can speak in tongues cant even speak to you in simple English to tell you just that!

Hmmmm…

 

[Lion]

Reading threads like this one scares me about the future of the Church. If the Holy Spirit moves one, it will be to help a neighbor in trouble, or feed the hungry, or sit with someone alone and dieing…or even learn a language so you can work for Christ in some 3rd World land. It won’t be to babble in a demonstration of self-absorbed zeal.

I tend to agree with this statement.

What I would like to know is why Protestants are really keen on this gift. I have talked to many Protestents who claim to have this ability. I talked to the Deacon at my Parish about this. He said that while he had witnessed this “gift” it was not for everyone to believe in… BTW what is it’s purpose? It sounds very individualistic to me… I am being somewhat sarcastic here, but if I wanted to appear important or “special” in my Church then I could start babbling too… It is obviously not a gift for me. I can’t help but wonder about the nature of those who claim this gift… that may sound harsh, especially since I do not understand its purpose… I apologize in advance to any I offend

 

[Lion]

I am one of them. I have the gift of tongues, but I do not utter nonsense syllables. The language that God has given me cannot be described as nonsense. Nothing that comes from God is nonsense.

So how would you explain it? And please explain it in a manner that a person who does not have this gift can understand what it is you experience

 

[Pani_Rose]

I have been active in the Charismatic renewal for over 30 years, and I have been involved in many such situations as you describe. I have witnessed it, and participated in it hundreds of times over the years, and I can’t offer any human explanation for this amazing, beautiful gift.

Some say that the gift of tongues is the least of the gifts, and I agree. However, even if it is the least, if it is a gift from God, why would anyone reject it? All the precious jewels in the world, piled together, would be but a tiny bump compared to the huge mountain of God’s least gift.

Michael by chance were you at the Notre Dame Conference in '82? If you were remember the crechendo(sp) that took place with the prayeing in tongues. Much like what was described above, but they came in perfect pitch, perfect harmony, very gently rolling, then in the perfect rythum ( don’t know how else to describe them) they came to a creshendo that no human could make, it was perfect pitch so high it would have been impossible for our voices, and 12,000+ people joined together in prayer, stopped instantly - all at once, no laggers, to total silence and magnificent peace. Then just a fullness of awareness in our lives that we had joined with the courts of heaven and God, our Heavenly Father, had been worshiped and glorified.

It was to say the least mind boggeling, there was no way humanly possible for that to have occured.

I have not read all the posts yet, but please if you haven’t there needs to be an understanding of the difference in ‘praying in tongues’ and ‘speaking in tongues’.

 

[Pani_Rose]

So how would you explain it? And please explain it in a manner that a person who does not have this gift can understand what it is you experience

**According to the Web site that deals with language research, there are over 7000 languages in use today. Over the past millennia, there have probably been more than 50,000 languages. What may sound like gibberish could actually be something like an early form of the Turkish language. Who knows.

**I borrowed that from a discussion on tongues from the Catholic Charismatic Renewal on the Web ccc.garg.com/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=105&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=tongues&start=15

You might find the discussion in tongues there, which that link is too, helpful.

 

[runandsew]

I have never experienced any of the charismatic gifts of the Holy Spirit, and I have no reason to doubt those who claim that they have.

But I wonder, how does speaking in tongues help edify the Church? If everyone at a Charismatic Mass already believes in Christ and in the gift of tongues, what is the purpose?

But I have to admit, that IMHO, speaking in tongues could be likened to using a prescription drug, it can be useful, but it can also be abused, you can get addicted to the high it gives you. I wonder if some of the people who are constantly on a high from the gifts of the spirit are abusing it for the high affect it gives them.

 

[Damascus]

I have never experienced any of the charismatic gifts of the Holy Spirit, and I have no reason to doubt those who claim that they have.

But I wonder, how does speaking in tongues help edify the Church? If everyone at a Charismatic Mass already believes in Christ and in the gift of tongues, what is the purpose?

But I have to admit, that IMHO, speaking in tongues could be likened to using a prescription drug, it can be useful, but it can also be abused, you can get addicted to the high it gives you. I wonder if some of the people who are constantly on a high from the gifts of the spirit are abusing it for the high affect it gives them.

Maybe you were given the gift of discerment.

 

[AuntMartha]

BTW what is it’s purpose?

I think DWPC answered it best:

If the Holy Spirit moves one, it will be to help a neighbor in trouble, or feed the hungry, or sit with someone alone and dieing…or even learn a language so you can work for Christ in some 3rd World land. It won’t be to babble in a demonstration of self-absorbed zeal.

 

[Michael_Welter]

Reading threads like this one scares me about the future of the Church. If the Holy Spirit moves one, it will be to help a neighbor in trouble, or feed the hungry, or sit with someone alone and dieing…or even learn a language so you can work for Christ in some 3rd World land. It won’t be to babble in a demonstration of self-absorbed zeal.

Thanks for putting the Holy Spirit in a box, and defining the rules for His behaviour. I’m sure He appreciates that.

 

[Michael_Welter]

Michael by chance were you at the Notre Dame Conference in '82? If you were remember the crechendo(sp) that took place with the prayeing in tongues. Much like what was described above, but they came in perfect pitch, perfect harmony, very gently rolling, then in the perfect rythum ( don’t know how else to describe them) they came to a creshendo that no human could make, it was perfect pitch so high it would have been impossible for our voices, and 12,000+ people joined together in prayer, stopped instantly - all at once, no laggers, to total silence and magnificent peace. Then just a fullness of awareness in our lives that we had joined with the courts of heaven and God, our Heavenly Father, had been worshiped and glorified.

No, I wasn’t there, , but I’ve witnessed the same thing many times at the SCRC conference in Anaheim, California. It’s absolutely beautiful.

 

[netmilsmom]

Thanks for putting the Holy Spirit in a box, and defining the rules for His behaviour. I’m sure He appreciates that.

It’s only logical.
The original gift of tongues had a purpose to help OTHERS.

 

[DWPC]

Thanks for putting the Holy Spirit in a box, and defining the rules for His behaviour. I’m sure He appreciates that.

You have it exactly backwards. With all the dire suffering throughout the mankind, how can any Christian seriously consider that God reveals himself to THEM personally through fits of silly incoherent babbling? He has far better things for us to do.

 

[Michael_Welter]

You have it exactly backwards. With all the dire suffering throughout the mankind, how can any Christian seriously consider that God reveals himself to THEM personally through fits of silly incoherent babbling? He has far better things for us to do.

Just because you can’t understand the language that God gave me doesn’t give you the right to call it “silly incoherent babbling.” Who are you to insult God like that? Seriously! I find your statement very offensive.