Speaking in Tongues

[DebChris]

I have never experienced any speaking in tongues. I’m really not sure how rare or whatever it is, because people’s definition of tongues differs.

I’m not one who believes in tongues as a bunch of nonsense that one one understands that just sounds like babble. To me, people who do that and say they are speaking in tongues are just doing it for attention, because they think they have to speak in tongues.

I do believe the gift exists, but I think its pretty rare. Either that or many people are just like me and unwilling to believe it can happen to us, therefore we don’t get it.

This is what I thought the first time I witnessed the phenomenon.
Until I experienced the gift in my own life I understood the story of Pentecost differently. I visualized the Apostles speaking in their own language and each of the members in the crowd understanding them. This morning I remembered an incident my father had shared when we lived in Japan. He did not speak Japanese but had a conversation with a Japanese man who spoke no English. Each spoke his own language and yet each understood each other. It is this understanding that I have of St. Anthony’s preaching to the Cardinals as told in the Flowers of Saint Francis. Nothing is impossible for God.
Dove Publications has a flyer on the Charismatic Renewal written by Jim Scully which may be helpful for those unfamiliar with the expression of the gifts which the Holy Spirit gives His people as He wills. These gifts are “to be received with thanksgiving and consolation, for they are exceedingly suitable and useful for the needs of the Church.” (Const. on the Church #12).
A reality for me is while my natural voice is flat and I have no sense of tone, what I sing “in the Spirit” has been described as angelic. I am much more aware of how God works in my own life and how much He really does love me than I was before allowing this gift to be released.

 

[Mijoy2]

A friend of mine’s conversion from Judaism to Catholicism began when he heard a Charismatic friend of his praying in tounges in her bedroom. He thought she was trying to ridicule him by praying in Hebrew. She explained that she did not know Hebrew. “But I just heard you praying fluent hebrew for the last 10 mins!” he relpied.

She confessed that she had been praying “as the spirit prompted her” and that she had been practicing “speaking in tounges” as the Apostles did on the day of pentecost. She then pointed to the different verses in the Scirpture.

From that day he read the entire New Testament, and “realised” that Jesus was the fullfilment of ALL the old testament Jewish prophecies. My friend David is now one of the most devout, Eucharistic, Marian, Catholics I know, although it has cost him much pain and rejection from his jewish relatives.

Thank God for the gift of tounges!!!

This is quite a story. I wonder why things like this do not happen more often. The babbling I have heard is enough to make one questions one faith. But if this story is true, this is certainly inspirational.

 

[Pat_the_Cat]

This is quite a story. I wonder why things like this do not happen more often. The babbling I have heard is enough to make one questions one faith. But if this story is true, this is certainly inspirational.

This certainly is true. And I know of many other times when people who had the gift of tounges spoke to foreigners in their own language.

A woman I know called Winnie, was doing some mission work in the Ukraine. She had only been there a short time and had been invited to a Charismatic prayer festival. She went along but didn’t understand much, as she didn’t speak the language. She joined in with the Hymns as much as she could and joined in when they all began to sing in tounges. A young woman approached Winnie and asked her where she had learnt the song she was singing. Winnie didn’t understand what she meant and replied “I was singing in tounges like everyone else”. “NO!” the woman exclaimed “you were singing a song that my Mother used to sing to me when I was a child. Where did you learn it?” Winnie was shocked, and explained that she didn’t know she was singing any song. The young woman then explained that her Mother had died recently and that she had been feeling guilty, as there had been many unresolved issues between them. She had come to the prayer festival and had just been praying that her mother would forgive her, when she heard this song being sung among all the people singing in tounges.
Apparently it brought this woman much healing.

God be praised! But this kind of sign from God is ***not ***unusal.

 

[DebChris]

This is quite a story. I wonder why things like this do not happen more often. The babbling I have heard is enough to make one questions one faith. But if this story is true, this is certainly inspirational.

When the Apostles first began preaching on the day of Pentecost, the crowd questioned how each heard them in their own tongue. Many thought that they were drunk; but as St. Peter said, it was not yet 10am.
Shortly after I became part of the Charismatic Renewal, I heard the story of a Carmelite nun. Now this nun already had a very close relationship with Jesus Christ. She spent many hours in contemplation. She questioned, “Why should I ask for the gift of tongues? Yet if this really is a gift from God, why should I refuse.” She was prayed over and immediately received the gift. What before had “taken hours now took minutes.”
None of us likes it when somebody refuses or is indifferent to a gift that we offer. “Nobody wants to be married for his money.” In the same way we do not seek the gifts simply in order to gain the gifts. Instead we accept the gifts in grateful thanksgiving from the Giver of the Gifts.
When Blessed Pope John XXIII convened Vatican II, his prayer was for a New Pentecost to overshadow the Church. This is exactly what happens to those willing to accept the gifts that God gives us. The Baptism of the Holy Spirit, which is often accompanied by the gifts of tongues, “the least of the gifts,” is not a new Sacrament. Rather it has been described as a release of the gifts that each of us has already received by virtue of our Baptism and Confirmation. We simply have neither opened these gifts nor begun to use them.
Think of speaking in tongues not merely as babbling (which all babies do when they first discover speech) but rather as a gift of the Holy Spirit, a charism that is acknowledged and accepted as genuine by the Magisterium. It is a gift that many ordained preists receive while on retreat at the Franciscan University in Steubenville, OH and elsewhere. It is described as one of the charisms in the Cathecism of the Catholic Church. It is a step toward a closer more intimate relationship with God who created each of us. The more people open themselves to the Holy Spirit, the more common the gift becomes.

 

[Pat_the_Cat]

As St. Paul says there are many different types of “tongues”,

Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. To one there is given through the Spirit the message of wisdom, to another the message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in tongues of different kinds, and to still another the interpretation of tongues.All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he gives them to each one, just as he determines. 1 Cor 12: 7-11

here’s some of the different types of tounges that I have been able to identify-

1. People speaking in a Foreign language unknown to them but known to the people hearing. ( I know of a priest from the US that was given the gift of conversational Italian. He had NEVER spoke Italian before. He was transferred to Rome some weeks later!)
2. People speaking in their own language but being understood by foreigners as their own language. (St. Peter and the apostles at pentecost - see te first few chapters of Acts)
3. People speaking in a language that is not understood by anyone except those who have the gift of interpretation of “tounges” (St Paul talks about this and advises that there should be an interpreter when this gift is being used.)
4. People speaking in a language unknown to anyone exept God, but the speaker has a sense of what they are expressing to God, but there are no human words that can have the same meaning. ***

If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 1Cor 13:1

---

 

[JPatton]

For me, the gift is generally expressed in song. I may be walking and I will begin singing praises to God in a language I do not know. It is also a marvelous tool for discernment as it allows me to pray, again, in accordance with God’s will. It is not I who prays but God himself who prays through me.
It is also a very humbling experience to know that the God whom the universe cannot contain is alive in my own heart, that He desires an intimate relationship with each of us.
Speaking in tongues, as I understand your question is a variation of the same gift. God may choose to speak or more often sing through me in the middle of a prayer group. I do not have the gift of interpretation, but somebody in the group will translate what I just said or sang into words that can be understood.

What if someone does not translate, is it still valid? Sometimes at the non-denom evangelical church I currently attend you will hear people speaking out in tounges, usually not very loud but loud enough that someone next to them could hear, but with interpretation.
Sometimes we have guest speakers who speak in tounges (loud enough for everyone to hear) but with no interpreter.
At a conference one time a speaker was asking for the crowd to “pray out loud to God and if you can pray in tounges, pray in tounges”. Alot of peole were praying in tounges but again there was no interpreter and it just sounded foolish and noisy.
In all these occations I was very confused and not encouraged.
So my question is, If there is no interpreter is it valid? When I look at scripture it makes me think not.

Jamie

 

[rtconstant]

The pentecostal movement and Charismatic Renewal is a different topic the that of tongues in scripture.

Regarding scripture, The best exposition of the gift of tongues, and the charisms in general is in 1 Corinthians, chapters 12-14. This is not however a straightforward theological teaching as Paul is writing to people who are already familiar with, and using the charisms, including the gift of tongues. The context of Paul’s teaching here seems to be that some abuses or disorder has crept into the meetings in Corinth. In the previous chapter (11) Paul deals with abuses concerning reception of the Eucharist. In chapters 12-14 he turns to the spiritual gifts. He emphasises two things, firstly that there must be unity in the body of Christ, secondly that there must be order in proceedings.

  So St. Paul points out in 1Cor 14:6-12 that it helps no-one if one speaks in tongues if no-one understand, and goes on to say (verse 13) “Therefore one who speaks in a tongue should pray to be able to interpret.” He continues in verse 27 “If anyone speaks in a tongue, let it be two or three at most, and each in turn, and one should interpret.” In the next verse he says “But if there is no interpreter, the person should keep silent and speak to himself and to God.” Speaking and interpreting tongues is for the building up of the church. He says (verse 26) “So what is to be done brothers? When you assemble, one has a psalm, another an instruction, a revelation, a tongue, or an interpretation. Everything should be done for building up.”

Well I will agree that the origins of the Charismatic renewal vs. the Evangelical Charistmatic protestant version is a subject for a seperate thread. I brought up these things because I thought the origin of the modern understanding of tongues was relevant.

Also I would disagree that the best exposition on tongues is in Corinthians. I think the best is found in the story of Pentecost. It is also the clearest.

As to the OP, I’d say that tongues are rare today primarily because there is less need for them. I do know missionaries who have had experiences with tongues in areas where that they were advantageous to the Gospel message. For instance I know of a person who was speaking to a Native American about the faith and completely unawares to themselves had apparently at some point started speaking fluently in the man’s traditional language. This event was so shocking that it created a powerful opening for communicating the Gospel.

So no doubt tongues is a very powerful tool for evangelization. It would however seem to be a rather situational gift though.

 

[DebChris]

What if someone does not translate, is it still valid? Sometimes at the non-denom evangelical church I currently attend you will hear people speaking out in tounges, usually not very loud but loud enough that someone next to them could hear, but with interpretation.
Sometimes we have guest speakers who speak in tounges (loud enough for everyone to hear) but with no interpreter.
At a conference one time a speaker was asking for the crowd to “pray out loud to God and if you can pray in tounges, pray in tounges”. Alot of peole were praying in tounges but again there was no interpreter and it just sounded foolish and noisy.
In all these occations I was very confused and not encouraged.
So my question is, If there is no interpreter is it valid? When I look at scripture it makes me think not.

Jamie

What you describe is somewhat similar to what I observed when invited to a Pentecostal Holiness Church. The men and women separated into prayer closets in order to work themselves into praying in tongues. It appeared that reason was left out of their worship. I have likewise seen televangelists preaching with occasional bursts of tongues while the congregation as a whole is not joining this prayer.
My personal experience is somewhat different. I need not “work myself into a frenzy” in order to pray in tongues. In fact, quite the opposite is true. My prayer language, my song, comes out when I allow myself to become quiet. In the prayer groups and conferences I have attended, there is an initial stillness that pervades the assembly. Like a crescendo, the expression of tongues may begin with one or two voices; others are added. We will praise God in that manner for a period of time and then the room will again become quiet. At such a time there will be no interpretation and yet there is little doubt that God is in that room. Tongues, the various prayer languages prayed in unison or separately, are merely an instrument and not the purpose of our coming together. They are a way of praising God individually and collectively. Other threads on the Charismatic Renewal deal more fully with how this expression may lead to the expression of other gifts.

 

[bpbasilphx]

No one yet has offered any evidence, Biblical, Patristic, or otherwise, that the senseless babbling called “glossolalia” is the same thing as the Biblical gift of speaking in tongues.

Furthermore, I have YET to see “prayer language” used in ONE Biblical or patristic citation.

 

[DebChris]

I use the computer in a library that lists 2 books:
Laurentin, Rene (1977) Catholic Pentecostalism translated by Matthew J. O’connell
Open the Windows: The Popes and the Charismatic Renewal (1989) South Bend Press.
There are a number of other books listed that are not directly related to the Catholic experience.
nsc-chariscenter.org recommends Introduction to the Catholic Charismatic Renewal (St. Anthony Messenger Press). They also list the brochures mentioned in an earlier post.
In Acts 2:4, the Apostles would have been praying in the various languages while still in the upper room, before preaching to the crowds. Many within the crowd thought they were drunk.

 

[DebChris]

4…Guiding the Church in the way of all truth and unifying her in communion and in the works of ministry, [the Holy Spirit] bestows on her varied heirachic and charismatic gifts; and he adorns her with his fruits. (Dogmatic Constition on the Church)

When the time for Pentecost was fulfilled, they were all in one place together…and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in different tongues, as the Spirit enabled them to proclaim. At this sound, they gathered in a large crowd, abut they were confused because each one heard them speaking in his own language.
But others were scoffing, “They have had too much new wine.” (Acts 2:1,4,6,13)

While Peter was still speaking, the holy Spirit fell upon all who were listening to the word. The circumcised believers who had accompanied Peter were astounded that the gift of the holy Spirit should have been poured out on the Gentiles also, for they could hear them *speaking in tongues *and glorifying God. (Acts 10: 44-46 Baptism of Cornelius)

There are different gifts but the same Spirit
…to another variety of tongues, to another interpretation of tongues. But one and the same Spirit produces all these, distributing them individually to each person as He wishes. (1 Cor 12:1,10-11)

If I speak in human and angelic tongues, but do not have love, I am a resounding gong or clashing cymbal. (1 Cor 13:1-2)

For one who *speaks in a tongue *does not speak to human beings but to God, for no one listens; he utters mysteries in spirit. (1 Cor 14:2)

4…a Church which speaks every language, understands and embraces all tongues in charity, and this overcomes the dispersion of Babel. (Decree on the Church’s Missionary Activity—with footnote references to Origen; St. John Chysostom; St. Augustine; St. Cyril; St Gregory the Great; St. Bede)

 

[DebChris]

One more source to add to the list before I log out:
Eddie Ensley (1977) Sounds of Wonder: Speaking in Tongues in the Catholic Tradition ISBN:0809118831 NY Paulist Press
Subject Matter: Glossalia (history); Ecstacy; Pentecostalism (Catholic Church History)

 

[rainy64]

Isn’t the biggest arguement about speaking in tongues- about HOW it is used? The gift exists. I think it is MISUSED frequently. Bringing attention to themselves is not the intention. I found it myself (speaking in tongues). I attended a Pentecostal Church with a school friend when I was 14 years old. (1979) I was overwhelmed with emotion. I wanted to say Thank you Lord!!! Words couldn’t come out right. I ended up mumbling some sentence and then covering my mouth, embaressed. Didn’t know what had happened. Years later, a sister (nun) prayer over me and my ulcer was healed. (She spoke in tongues. That was the first time I figured out what had happened).

I felt like I had “lost it.” Didn’t know what I had done to bring it on. I forgot about it for years. Recently(2006), I was hospitalized for a serious illness. I was unable to eat. Unable to communicate. However, I could read. I read and prayed. ended up fasting-by accident because I COULDN’T eat. Eventually, I was trying to speak to a nervous woman in the same hospital. I tried to comfort her and let her know God is good. Out comes the “babbling” again. She said I was speaking in tongues.

For some odd reason that I still don’t understand fully, THAT- speaking in tongues- brought her so much comfort. The same thing happened with a man coming to church for a healing service.

I met him outside. Went to hug him(after small talk and finding out his story), I was whispering, but speaking in tongues- he was touched. Started weeping. (was later able to read again after having it be impossible for two years!). I can’t explain what God wants of it.

I just know what I have seen. My mind is on God. My prayers are full and satisfying when I pray in tongues. I don’t shout it at church, or anywhere. (I have prayed out loud with SOME members of my family. Not many) .

Everyone has different reactions to it. It scares some. It’s mostly my private prayer. I will share but in the right ways.

 

[jwatza]

My sister was visiting Mexico City–Our Lady of Guadalupe and she was outside praying with a person. She prayed in tongues and a young Mexican man came up to her and told her that she was speaking in an ancient Spanish/Indian dialect. He was able to interpret what she was saying and it was a message from Our Lady to the person being prayed over. Sometimes what sounds like gibberish can be part of an ancient language. God works in so many ways, let’s not put Him in a box.

 

[rusty20]

I’m very skeptical of those who speak in tongues. For me, the random babbling gibberish is unintelligible. I have the Sacraments and the mass every week at my disposal. I don’t need this ‘gift’ in order to be more in touch with Christ’s mission for me.

I feel that there is a sense of achievement or superiority among the charismatic Catholic movement. they feel they have a gift which separates them from the rest of us. I’m very suspicious of this movement as a whole.

I think stories such as the one about the Jew-Catholic convert earlier in the thread sound like a legitimate use of tongues, according to the Biblical view. But the rambling gibberish between people, where no one can understand each other just seems pointless and has no positive ramifications…

 

[Crimson_Seraph]

Isn’t the biggest arguement about speaking in tongues- about HOW it is used? The gift exists. I think it is MISUSED frequently. Bringing attention to themselves is not the intention. I found it myself (speaking in tongues). I attended a Pentecostal Church with a school friend when I was 14 years old. (1979) I was overwhelmed with emotion. I wanted to say Thank you Lord!!! Words couldn’t come out right. I ended up mumbling some sentence and then covering my mouth, embaressed. Didn’t know what had happened. Years later, a sister (nun) prayer over me and my ulcer was healed. (She spoke in tongues. That was the first time I figured out what had happened).

I felt like I had “lost it.” Didn’t know what I had done to bring it on. I forgot about it for years. Recently(2006), I was hospitalized for a serious illness. I was unable to eat. Unable to communicate. However, I could read. I read and prayed. ended up fasting-by accident because I COULDN’T eat. Eventually, I was trying to speak to a nervous woman in the same hospital. I tried to comfort her and let her know God is good. Out comes the “babbling” again. She said I was speaking in tongues.

For some odd reason that I still don’t understand fully, THAT- speaking in tongues- brought her so much comfort. The same thing happened with a man coming to church for a healing service.

I met him outside. Went to hug him(after small talk and finding out his story), I was whispering, but speaking in tongues- he was touched. Started weeping. (was later able to read again after having it be impossible for two years!). I can’t explain what God wants of it.

I just know what I have seen. My mind is on God. My prayers are full and satisfying when I pray in tongues. I don’t shout it at church, or anywhere. (I have prayed out loud with SOME members of my family. Not many) .

Everyone has different reactions to it. It scares some. It’s mostly my private prayer. I will share but in the right ways.

As some one who grew up Pentecostal Holiness, I know exactly what you’re talking about. Be thankful that you have that relationship with the Holy Ghost, anyone who redicules you is either jealous or ignorant.

“But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost.” - Jude 20

 

[coco2]

i read an article from a catholic apologist in which it explain that this gift no longer exists. for Paul himself said that this gift would cease. St Augustine has said that this gift no longer existed confirmed by Aguinas. the article also says that this type of language can also be used as a judgement upon those who desobeye God’s Statutes. tks God bless.

I find it hard to believe that a gift of the Spirit no longer exists. Where does Paul say this?

 

[rainy64]

This certainly is true. And I know of many other times when people who had the gift of tounges spoke to foreigners in their own language.

A woman I know called Winnie, was doing some mission work in the Ukraine. She had only been there a short time and had been invited to a Charismatic prayer festival. She went along but didn’t understand much, as she didn’t speak the language. She joined in with the Hymns as much as she could and joined in when they all began to sing in tounges. A young woman approached Winnie and asked her where she had learnt the song she was singing. Winnie didn’t understand what she meant and replied “I was singing in tounges like everyone else”. “NO!” the woman exclaimed “you were singing a song that my Mother used to sing to me when I was a child. Where did you learn it?” Winnie was shocked, and explained that she didn’t know she was singing any song. The young woman then explained that her Mother had died recently and that she had been feeling guilty, as there had been many unresolved issues between them. She had come to the prayer festival and had just been praying that her mother would forgive her, when she heard this song being sung among all the people singing in tounges.
Apparently it brought this woman much healing.

God be praised! But this kind of sign from God is ***not ***unusal.

How do you all of the “tongues” present?
( I have even heard a deaf woman speaking in tongues…I have no idea of what language but her sounds, her voice was smooth. Something she CANNOT do in english.)
Many of these people who discovered someone speaking a known foreign language would NOT have reached people if they had remained silent. One never knows who they will reach in whatever language. Isn’t it better to “risk” a little noise for a few minutes and give things a chance than to remain silent and never reach one that could have heard the GOOD NEWS?
a true believer may be open to that.
Maybe some are “fake,” or attention getting. People usually figure out genuine versus the false.

 

[guanophore]

Isn’t the biggest arguement about speaking in tongues- about HOW it is used? The gift exists. I think it is MISUSED frequently. Bringing attention to themselves is not the intention. I found it myself (speaking in tongues). I attended a Pentecostal Church with a school friend when I was 14 years old. (1979) I was overwhelmed with emotion. I wanted to say Thank you Lord!!! Words couldn’t come out right. I ended up mumbling some sentence and then covering my mouth, embaressed. Didn’t know what had happened. Years later, a sister (nun) prayer over me and my ulcer was healed. (She spoke in tongues. That was the first time I figured out what had happened).

I felt like I had “lost it.” Didn’t know what I had done to bring it on. I forgot about it for years. Recently(2006), I was hospitalized for a serious illness. I was unable to eat. Unable to communicate. However, I could read. I read and prayed. ended up fasting-by accident because I COULDN’T eat. Eventually, I was trying to speak to a nervous woman in the same hospital. I tried to comfort her and let her know God is good. Out comes the “babbling” again. She said I was speaking in tongues.

For some odd reason that I still don’t understand fully, THAT- speaking in tongues- brought her so much comfort. The same thing happened with a man coming to church for a healing service.

I met him outside. Went to hug him(after small talk and finding out his story), I was whispering, but speaking in tongues- he was touched. Started weeping. (was later able to read again after having it be impossible for two years!). I can’t explain what God wants of it.

I just know what I have seen. My mind is on God. My prayers are full and satisfying when I pray in tongues. I don’t shout it at church, or anywhere. (I have prayed out loud with SOME members of my family. Not many) .

Everyone has different reactions to it. It scares some. It’s mostly my private prayer. I will share but in the right ways.

This is a beautiful and humble testimony. Thank you for sharing it!

 

[LeroyCRHP]

Very interesting, do you have a link or any scripture for me to read?

Thanks

i read an article from a catholic apologist in which it explain that this gift no longer exists. for Paul himself said that this gift would cease. St Augustine has said that this gift no longer existed confirmed by Aguinas. the article also says that this type of language can also be used as a judgement upon those who desobeye God’s Statutes. tks God bless.