Spectacles at Holy Mass

[TimothyH]

I also must disagree with the above to an extent.
the matter here is not a question of which one has sinned - but what are the problems displayed by each.
Yes the man has a problem if he lusts in his heart.
The woman likewise has a problem in thinking that a miniskirt is appropriate attire for mass - especially for entering the sanctuary and doing the readings.

Each is guilty of a sin…

Peace
James

James is exactly correct. Modesty safeguards sexual purity.

From the Catechism…

*2521 Purity requires modesty, an integral part of temperance. Modesty protects the intimate center of the person. It means refusing to unveil what should remain hidden. It is ordered to chastity to whose sensitivity it bears witness. It guides how one looks at others and behaves toward them in conformity with the dignity of persons and their solidarity.

2522 Modesty protects the mystery of persons and their love. It encourages patience and moderation in loving relationships; it requires that the conditions for the definitive giving and commitment of man and woman to one another be fulfilled. Modesty is decency. It inspires one’s choice of clothing. It keeps silence or reserve where there is evident risk of unhealthy curiosity. It is discreet.

2523 There is a modesty of the feelings as well as of the body. It protests, for example, against the voyeuristic explorations of the human body in certain advertisements, or against the solicitations of certain media that go too far in the exhibition of intimate things. Modesty inspires a way of life which makes it possible to resist the allurements of fashion and the pressures of prevailing ideologies*.

…in conformity with the dignity of persons…

It is counter to human dignity to intentionally or unintentionally make oneself out to be an object of desire rather than a person with value as a human being.

-Tim-

 

[Neofight]

It sounds to me like any spectacle was “before” Mass. I didn’t hear anything about riding “during” Mass or light shows “during” Mass. Riding a motorcycle into the Church sounds a little over the top, but i try not to judge without knowing all the facts. I’ve seen several places around the world where the Church is not a structure that most western people think of as a Church… It “may” have been more appropriate than it sounds.

As per the short skirt, I agree with the priest in question 100%… There are religions that say a woman sin if a man looks at them with lust in his heart. Jesus made it clear where the sin actually lies… Women should NEVER have to wear burkas (spelling) to Mass so that some guy doesn’t get all excited looking at a leg. It’s the job of the man in question to conquer the lust in their own heart. And I say that as a man that struggles with that sin. But i recognize the sin for what it is… MY problem, not the woman in a short skirt.

God bless.

Call me a prude, call me old fashioned, call me old school. My parish is in a beach community, and I cringe everytime I see shorts, T-shirt and flip-flops on men, and halter tops and short shorts on women.

For myself, a button down collar, sweater, maybe a sports coat is my dress for Mass; my wife with a knee length or longer skirt with a top that does not leave shoulders exposed (long or short sleeve, but not without sleeves.

Even our dress is far less conservative than the Vatican visitor’s dress code. Interestingly, we lived in Korea for a couple of years, and many dressing for Mass do not meet the dress code for entry into the DMZ!

My thoughts are, getting ready to be in the presence of our blessed savior, is worthy of taking the time to make ourselves presentable.

However, I leave it at that, because it is more important that people come to the house of the Lord, than to stay away because of a dress code.

God knows our hearts. If we truly are theocentric and not egocentric, God will overlook our appearance, and its not for me to judge.

 

[zab]

What was the priest’s point for gossiping about a fellow priest? Sounds like detraction to me. If the deceased priest really did ride his motorcycle INTO the sanctuary, to make a point in his homily, that’s not appropriate because the parishioners would be thinking of that for the rest of the Mass, not the sacrifice of Jesus and His Body and Blood which they are about to receive. The light show sounds like entertainment…not a good choice but not during the Mass, at least.

Jesus is the star of the Mass. His sacrifice for our sins should be at the forefront of our minds no matter what the homily is. A homily should be directed toward the Gospel for that Sunday, should relate in some way to it and the other readings. Sometimes priests will go off in other directions and leave the Gospel behind…I don’t like it when it happens.

You will learn over time what a good homilist is. If something bothers you, chances are good it’s bothering the other Catholics around you. Trust your newly-hatched Catholic sensibilities!

So now the priest giving the homily was gossiping about a fellow priest?

 

[TheRealJuliane]

So now the priest giving the homily was gossiping about a fellow priest?

Yes, it sounds like it.

 

[Myqyl]

I’d just like to point out that the OP said a “short skirt”… Not a “Mini Skirt”… I have seen some pretty tame skirts called “short” by someone that felt they were the best judge of “appropriate”…

I tend to believe that if the “biker” priest said it was not inappropriate, and that a trained minister wore the skirt to Mass, that it was likely not a “mini skirt” (or it almost certainly would have been called one)… I also believe that some men assume that any skirt that “turns them on” is inappropriate… Most times the problem is in the eye of the beholder.

I could very well be wrong, but with the information given (in the Original Post, not once the skirt shrunk to a mini mid-thread ) the priest in question deserves the benefit of the doubt…

Again, I could be wrong…

God bless

 

[zab]

I’d just like to point out that the OP said a “short skirt”… Not a “Mini Skirt”… I have seen some pretty tame skirts called “short” by someone that felt they were the best judge of “appropriate”…

I tend to believe that if the “biker” priest said it was not inappropriate, and that a trained minister wore the skirt to Mass, that it was likely not a “mini skirt” (or it almost certainly would have been called one)… I also believe that some men assume that any skirt that “turns them on” is inappropriate… Most times the problem is in the eye of the beholder.

I could very well be wrong, but with the information given (in the Original Post, not once the skirt shrunk to a mini mid-thread ) the priest in question deserves the benefit of the doubt…

Again, I could be wrong…

God bless

Oh, you’re spoiling all the fun. It sounds like it was a homily by a priest gossiping about a fellow deceased priest who rode his motocycle into the sanctuary and he also chastised people who complained about the reader wearing a MINI SKIRT. Don’t you see how this thread is progressing? I don’t know about you, but I really need my spectacles at Mass:nerd:

 

[giuseppeTO]

It is more important that people come to the house of the Lord, than to stay away because of a dress code.

God knows our hearts. If we truly are theocentric and not egocentric, God will overlook our appearance, and its not for me to judge.

I wouldn’t be so quick to assume that of Our Lord. It is our obligation under pain of mortal sin to assist at Mass on Sunday. If your attitude is “I’ll go, but I’ll go in whatever I happen to wearing and the Lord will just be ‘jazzed’ to see me” would certainly be problematic.

Now, if one were to wear flip flops, shorts, and halters to job interviews, proms, weddings, and court appearances, then I might at least concede the point. But if you dress up for secular occasions and dress down to stand in the physical presence of Our Savior, He may be more ‘ticked’ than ‘jazzed’ that you showed up in beachwear.

 

[Big_Feet]

My first instinct is to say spectacles at mass are not desirable.

I am sorry…my first reaction after reading the title of this thread and this line was…

“Hey!! I wear my spectacles to mass all the time! What is wrong with that? I want to be able to see what is going on around me!”
oh, well…I guess that is what I get for being a former employee of Colonial Williamsburg!
LOL!

Carry on…

 

[Neofight]

I wouldn’t be so quick to assume that of Our Lord. It is our obligation under pain of mortal sin to assist at Mass on Sunday. If your attitude is “I’ll go, but I’ll go in whatever I happen to wearing and the Lord will just be ‘jazzed’ to see me” would certainly be problematic.

We agree. That was the theocentric vice egocentric think I spoke of…but, you must forgive me, because I always will be quick to assume that Our Lord is a God of mercy, peace, love, and forgiveness!

 

[JRKH]

i wouldn’t be so quick to assume that of our lord. It is our obligation under pain of mortal sin to assist at mass on sunday. If your attitude is “i’ll go, but i’ll go in whatever i happen to wearing and the lord will just be ‘jazzed’ to see me” would certainly be problematic.

now, if one were to wear flip flops, shorts, and halters to job interviews, proms, weddings, and court appearances, then i might at least concede the point. But if you dress up for secular occasions and dress down to stand in the physical presence of our savior, he may be more ‘ticked’ than ‘jazzed’ that you showed up in beachwear.

bullseye!!!

 

[Myqyl]

I wouldn’t be so quick to assume that of Our Lord. It is our obligation under pain of mortal sin to assist at Mass on Sunday. If your attitude is “I’ll go, but I’ll go in whatever I happen to wearing and the Lord will just be ‘jazzed’ to see me” would certainly be problematic.

Now, if one were to wear flip flops, shorts, and halters to job interviews, proms, weddings, and court appearances, then I might at least concede the point. But if you dress up for secular occasions and dress down to stand in the physical presence of Our Savior, He may be more ‘ticked’ than ‘jazzed’ that you showed up in beachwear.

I know my opinion is not popular here, but I worry about “dressing up for Mass” and being too judgemental of those that don’t whenever I read the 2nd chapter of James… I understand this is more about economics then fashion, but still…

But I guess what worries me most about these discussions is Mark 12, especually around verse 38… This seems to me to say that the Lord is saying to beware of those that care too much about the fashions worn to Mass.

And the whole “Lillies of the Field” thing… Jesus seems to be more concerned with people trying to turn Mass into a fashion show then worrying about flip-flops… (PLEASE note: I am not suggesting ANYONE in this discussion thinks of Mass as a fashion show… It is an exagerated example, NOT an accusation…)

Perhaps i’m putting too much stock in a couple of verse. Can anyone supply me with Scripture where the Lord tells us to dress nice?

God bless

 

[Myqyl]

Oh, you’re spoiling all the fun. It sounds like it was a homily by a priest gossiping about a fellow deceased priest who rode his motocycle into the sanctuary and he also chastised people who complained about the reader wearing a MINI SKIRT. Don’t you see how this thread is progressing? I don’t know about you, but I really need my spectacles at Mass:nerd:

Three more pages into the thread the preist will be riding into the Santuary while wearing a mini skirt… It’s a good thing God wrote the Scriptures before forums existed

 

[Diana_Catherine]

My thoughts are, getting ready to be in the presence of our blessed savior, is worthy of taking the time to make ourselves presentable…

Agree.

However, I leave it at that, because it is more important that people come to the house of the Lord, than to stay away because of a dress code.

God knows our hearts. If we truly are theocentric and not egocentric, God will overlook our appearance, and its not for me to judge.

My only thought with “God knows our hearts” is, what is in our hearts is shown in our actions.

 

[Joannm]

What was the priest’s point for gossiping about a fellow priest? Sounds like detraction to me. If the deceased priest really did ride his motorcycle INTO the sanctuary, to make a point in his homily, that’s not appropriate because the parishioners would be thinking of that for the rest of the Mass, not the sacrifice of Jesus and His Body and Blood which they are about to receive. The light show sounds like entertainment…not a good choice but not during the Mass, at least.

Jesus is the star of the Mass. His sacrifice for our sins should be at the forefront of our minds no matter what the homily is. A homily should be directed toward the Gospel for that Sunday, should relate in some way to it and the other readings. Sometimes priests will go off in other directions and leave the Gospel behind…I don’t like it when it happens.

You will learn over time what a good homilist is. If something bothers you, chances are good it’s bothering the other Catholics around you. Trust your newly-hatched Catholic sensibilities!

I agree. This is the first thing I thought when I read the first post. Why is this priest using the homily time to talk about alleged abuses another priest did at mass? What purpose did it serve other than to tarnish the name of the deceased who is unable to answer these charges. No one knows if the deceased priest reconized his errors and changed his ways. Who knows, this priest might have been well loved by people who he ministerd to through illnesses, deaths, births, family problems, financial need. The man is dead, leave him alone. It sounds a lot like detraction to me. The priest should have been focusing his homily on the scriptures of the day.

 

[zab]

I agree. This is the first thing I thought when I read the first post. Why is this priest using the homily time to talk about alleged abuses another priest did at mass? What purpose did it serve other than to tarnish the name of the deceased who is unable to answer these charges. No one knows if the deceased priest reconized his errors and changed his ways. Who knows, this priest might have been well loved by people who he ministerd to through illnesses, deaths, births, family problems, financial need. The man is dead, leave him alone. It sounds a lot like detraction to me. The priest should have been focusing his homily on the scriptures of the day.

Perhaps he was just sharing some memories of his priest friend.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Three more pages into the thread the priest will be riding into the Sanctuary while wearing a mini skirt… It’s a good thing God wrote the Scriptures before forums existed

Post of the day!! A lot of the time, I am not really LOL but for this, I am!

Good one.

 

[CB_Catholic]

I have come to the point where I would like to come to the forums for just one day and not read complaints about the Mass, the priest, the Bishop, altar girls, the homily, kneeling, standing, sitting, hand raising, babies crying–you name it.

Wouldn’t it be nice to recognize our fellow Catholics for the good they do? How many of us consider the time and effort spent by the people in the pews and our clergy in feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, visiting the sick, championing right-to-life causes, serving in the missions, etc. Or is this all overshadowed by focusing on things we don’t like?

I would like to see a one week moratorium on complaining in these forums just to give us all a chance to really think about Christ and our relationship to Him and our brothers and sisters.
I don’t think it will happen, but it sure would be nice, wouldn’t it?

 

[TimothyH]

I am sorry…my first reaction after reading the title of this thread and this line was…

“Hey!! I wear my spectacles to mass all the time! What is wrong with that? I want to be able to see what is going on around me!”
oh, well…I guess that is what I get for being a former employee of Colonial Williamsburg!
LOL!

Carry on…

Why would you want to see what is going on around you? The Mass is not about you, you know. Your focus should be on Jesus, not on what is going on around you. To the extent that spectacles, contact lenses or other vision aids take our focus away from Jesus and place our focus on what is going on around us, they are completely counter to the spirit and purpose of the liturgy.

Wooo…

-Tim-

 

[triumphguy]

I have come to the point where I would like to come to the forums for just one day and not read complaints about the Mass, the priest, the Bishop, altar girls, the homily, kneeling, standing, sitting, hand raising, babies crying–you name it.

Wouldn’t it be nice to recognize our fellow Catholics for the good they do? How many of us consider the time and effort spent by the people in the pews and our clergy in feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, visiting the sick, championing right-to-life causes, serving in the missions, etc. Or is this all overshadowed by focusing on things we don’t like?

I would like to see a one week moratorium on complaining in these forums just to give us all a chance to really think about Christ and our relationship to Him and our brothers and sisters.
I don’t think it will happen, but it sure would be nice, wouldn’t it?

Another moaning poster!

Just kidding - I whole heartedly agree with you.

In my life I have learned the following:

There is more right than wrong with most people.
There is more right than wrong with the Church.
There is more right than wrong with our priests and religious.
There’s too much negativity…

But after a one week moratorium I’d be bored!

 

[JRKH]

I have come to the point where I would like to come to the forums for just one day and not read complaints about the Mass, the priest, the Bishop, altar girls, the homily, kneeling, standing, sitting, hand raising, babies crying–you name it.

Wouldn’t it be nice to recognize our fellow Catholics for the good they do? How many of us consider the time and effort spent by the people in the pews and our clergy in feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, visiting the sick, championing right-to-life causes, serving in the missions, etc. Or is this all overshadowed by focusing on things we don’t like?

I would like to see a one week moratorium on complaining in these forums just to give us all a chance to really think about Christ and our relationship to Him and our brothers and sisters.
I don’t think it will happen, but it sure would be nice, wouldn’t it?

Amen Brother (or Sister…)

It would be an interesting exercise for us all just to keep from doing it…

Peace
James