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GEddie
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It’s even worse. Gehenna also included unclaimed human bodies, according to some sources.
ICXC NIKA
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ICXC NIKA
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drac16
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From my perspective, there is no need to speculate because there can be no doubt about what the Qur’an says about Hell. In one passage, it says that your whole skin will be burned, then recreated, then burned again (and that process continues many times over). If a person in Hell asks for a drink of water, they will have scalding, boiling water poured on their faces. In another passage, they will eat from what’s known as the tree of Zaqqum, which will only have bitter pieces of fruit (it’ll never satisfy you).
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Dmitri77
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I’m always a little hesitant to post this because it is highly polemical towards Roman Catholics and Protestants but if you can get past that it describes what I believe about hell. Again, I apologize for the polemics.
The River of Fire
The River of Fire
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rcwitness
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According to an online survey…
Lets just not accept this as fact. We don’t know who these surveyors are. We don’t know that some of these surveyors are not trolls.
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rcwitness
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Matthew 25
"…Then he will say to those at his left hand, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels; 42 for I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.’ 44 Then they also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see thee hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to thee?’ 45 Then he will answer them, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did it not to one of the least of these, you did it not to me.’ 46 And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
Revelation 20:14
Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire;
Revelation 21:8
But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the polluted, as for murderers, fornicators, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their lot shall be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”
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rcwitness
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benjohnson
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That would make sense for those who are inclined to repent - but I do suspect there are people that could defy G-d forever. I know I’ve tried.
Of course such folk need a theme song: Frank Sinatra’s My Way
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benjohnson
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A really good read - the descriptions of the West weren’t malicious in intent.
My gut reaction is that I appreciate the Orthodox view and respect and admire it, I would point out that God so loves us that he also uses negative pedagogy for those of us with thick skulls such as myself.
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Dmitri77
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To be fair not all Orthodox believe the teachings in that paper. I will say though, when I read it for the first time it changed my life. I found a Church that taught what I intuitively believed. It was exhilarating but it also broke my heart. That so many people were taught all the lies about God. It still breaks my heart but I get consolation from knowing that God is all love and is perfectly capable of saving anyone, even if they have such a perverted view of Him.
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Wannano
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This is a very interesting article. I have read it through once and am now stimulated with a desire to study it and the concept further.
The polemics will make it difficult for some but may shed some light on early church error. The concept of our individual hearts being subjected to God’s love and truth and the responses coming from that is not foreign to what I have been taught in the realm of a personal relationship with God.
Thank you for sharing this, I hope everyone reads it.
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Michael68
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LOL.
I could agree with this! Would we some of us possibly be assigned to rub dog bellies for 8 hours? That look they give you when you stop is torture!
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rcwitness
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I believe this is part of the judgement being described. Then, later in the book, chapter 20…
And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, by what they had done.*And the sea gave up the dead in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead in them, and all were judged by what they had done.*Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire;*and if any one’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
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Fuerza
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I would just like to offer a thought on the bolded portion above. If I remember correctly you mentioned in a previous post that your father had apologized to you when he appeared. Now I obviously don’t know more about the encounter than you do, but there may be some hope here. An apology generally indicates remorse for having offended someone and a desire for forgiveness, neither of which is a trait of the damned. Combine that with what some saints and scholars have written with regard to purgatory’s being as terrifying as hell, and you may have some grounds for hope as to what your father saw coming for him. I often struggle with the possible eternal fate of my own father who died very suddenly and without the sacraments when I was 13 (he was a good man, but by no means religious and had, at least objectively, committed quite a few mortal sins in his life). Even with that information, one never knows what happens between a soul and God in that last moment. Maybe that vision was God’s way of allowing your father to ask for prayers, even if he never got the words out.
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Hatikvah
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Hell, Hades or Gehenna must be “unquenchable fire,” which is in the Parable of Lazarus and the Rich Man and also in Mark 9:43:
It is also the Lake of Fire in Revelation (Rev. 19:20, 20:10, 20:14-15, 21:8), which is consistent with Lucia Santos’ vision of a “sea of fire,” given by Our Lady of Fatima (again, however, I’m dubious on accounts such as the latter).
Dante Alighieri’s account of Hell in his Divine Comedy was likely intended as allegory because each canto can contain many meanings, both literal and allegorical. Plus, it’s a poem, so…
It seems to maintain a consistent meaning, and “Gehenna” was literally a derivative of the name Hinnom, as in the Valley of Hinnom – where trash was burned in Christ’s day and where, much earlier, children were sacrificed to the pagan god Molech.
It is also the Lake of Fire in Revelation (Rev. 19:20, 20:10, 20:14-15, 21:8), which is consistent with Lucia Santos’ vision of a “sea of fire,” given by Our Lady of Fatima (again, however, I’m dubious on accounts such as the latter).
Dante Alighieri’s account of Hell in his Divine Comedy was likely intended as allegory because each canto can contain many meanings, both literal and allegorical. Plus, it’s a poem, so…
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rcwitness
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… which is permissible, since it is private revelation. I too take it with a grain of salt.
Still… the eternal nature of hell may not be subject to doubt.
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Hatikvah
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Of course, that is not called into doubt. The author of Revelation likes to make use of the word “eternal” in reference to the Lake of Fire, and Jesus Himself said “unquenchable fire.”
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abucs
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Thanks again for all the clarifications, Scripture and links. I will study them further in the coming days.
Thanks in anticipation.
Hello Drac, did you know the chapters and passages in the Qur’an which contains your examples.
Thanks in anticipation.
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drac16
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Sure.
“And say, ‘The truth is from your Lord, so whoever wills - let him believe; and whoever wills - let him disbelieve.’ Indeed, We have prepared for the wrongdoers a fire whose walls will surround them. And if they call for relief, they will be relieved with water like murky oil, which scalds [their] faces. Wretched is the drink, and evil is the resting place” (surah 18:29)
“Indeed, those who disbelieve in Our verses - We will drive them into a Fire. Every time their skins are roasted through We will replace them with other skins so they may taste the punishment. Indeed, Allah is ever Exalted in Might and Wise” (surah 4:56)
“Is Paradise a better accommodation or the tree of Zaqqum? Indeed, We have made it a torment for the wrongdoers. Indeed, it is a tree issuing from the bottom of the Hellfire.” (surah 37:62-64)
“Surely the tree of the Zaqqum. Is the food of the sinful. Like dregs of oil; it shall boil in (their) bellies, Like the boiling of hot water”. (surah 44:43-46)
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Strydersroom
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I once heard that a single “perfect prayer” could empty hell and send everyone to Heaven. No one knows the truth until they die.
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rcwitness
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Thank God for faith in the things promised, the things fulfilled by Jesus, and Scriptures that warn us about what we cannot pray for…
1 John 5
I write this to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life.14And this is the confidence which we have in him, that if we ask anything according to his will he hears us.15And if we know that he hears us in whatever we ask, we know that we have obtained the requests made of him.16If any one sees his brother committing what is not a mortal sin, he will ask, and God will give him life for those whose sin is not mortal. There is sin which is mortal; I do not say that one is to pray for that.17All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin which is not mortal.
Hell is for those whom Jesus judged as living and dying in mortal sin. This should not be prayed for, unless you believe Christ is unjust and you have greater love and mercy than He.
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