Spirituality of religious orders in Catholic tradition

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WoundedIcon said:
I have a question. I’m unable to become a friar due to illness, but I honestly believe that God has basically outright told me to become a Franciscan. However, I don’t feel particularly drawn to it - but I don’t know much about it either. How would a person go about living the Franciscan charism in the secular world? What difficulties are there? I lean toward the rich and grandiose, and have a traditionalist bent, so I’m wondering what to do with the temptations that come from that (criticizing superiors, liturgical forms, and of course the general inclination to nicer things). Also, as a subset of spirituality, I’ve sort of been thrust into many experiences that line up with Carmelite mysticism (let’s just say that those purifications are hellish, and for some reason I’m fixated on detachment as a means to mystical union). I know there’s a contemplative element to Franciscan life, but how would one go about merging the two spiritualities?
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I am a Franciscan Tertiary (secular) under the Capuchins in Morgon.

Your situation sounds like it may suit the Conventual TOSF?
 
Lamafacaja said:
Here’s a Catholic Spirituality Selector quiz for fun. 😃

Here are my results.
Code: 
           1. Benedictine   	
       2. Franciscan   	
           3.Missionaries of Charity   	
           4.Dominican   	
           5. Opus Dei   	
           6.Jesuit
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This is what I got:
Code: 
            Jesuit    	

	Opus Dei    	

	Dominican    	

	Benedictine    	

	Franciscan    	

	Missionaries of Charity
I think this answer pushed Opus Dei closer to the top of my list.
**2. God`s call can be answered by the sancticity of the ordinary life? YES **

And Are you an elegant person-- Not sure pushed the Franciscans and Missionaries of Charity to the bottom, LOL.

The interesting thing is when I went to predict my results, I predicted Opus Dei.
 
JReducation said:
I was not referring to you. I was addressing anyone who may be reading. There is a tendency among some people in Traddom to believe that truth must be ruthless, which is not what the great preachers of history advocated or practiced.
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I hear ya. I personally prefer to be diplomatic, but for some reason I guilt trip myself into thinking it’s too PC or comfortable/easy - that it’s too skirty - and will result in people being lost. So I understand that brutality, it’s almost like a nervous tick. I think there’s a Traddie tendency to think religion has to be sourpuss, hard, painful, and dark.
 
TrueLight said:
This is what I got:
Code: 
            Jesuit    	

	Opus Dei    	

	Dominican    	

	Benedictine    	

	Franciscan    	

	Missionaries of Charity
I think this answer pushed Opus Dei closer to the top of my list.
**2. God`s call can be answered by the sancticity of the ordinary life? YES **

And Are you an elegant person-- Not sure pushed the Franciscans and Missionaries of Charity to the bottom, LOL.

The interesting thing is when I went to predict my results, I predicted Opus Dei.
Click to expand...
Mine:
Code: 
	Jesuit   	

	Opus Dei   	


	Benedictine   	


	Franciscan   	


	Dominican   	


	Missionaries of Charity
 
Dominican
Franciscan
Jesuit
Missionaries of Charity
Benedictine
Opus Dei

I know, everyone is probably shocked (SHOCKED I say!) at my results on this quiz.
 
JReducation said:
Francis was of the opinion that if you had to be rude and harsh in order to speak truth, then keep your mouth shut and let someone else who can do it with politeness do the job.

This is where the famous saying comes from, “Preach always and when necessary use words.” Francis actually never said this. Thomas of Celano describes Francis as the man who preached always, but only when necessary used words. The reason, Celano explains to us, is that Francis abhorred bad manners. Remember, he was a Troubadour. While he would not lie to spare someone’s feelings, he avoided speaking, if he could not spare someone’s feelings and he taught his friars to do the same.
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I said, “I will watch my ways,
lest I sin with my tongue;
I will keep a muzzle on my mouth.”
(Psalm 39:2)

-Tim-
 
Benedictine
Dominican
Opus Dei
Franciscan
Missionaries of Charity
Jesuit

I guess it isn’t so surprising that I ended up a Benedictine oblate!
 
Jesuit and Dominican were the top two. Ignatian and Dominican spirituality were the two I felt most closely attached to from the get go.
 
WoundedIcon said:
I hear ya. I personally prefer to be diplomatic, but for some reason I guilt trip myself into thinking it’s too PC or comfortable/easy - that it’s too skirty - and will result in people being lost. So I understand that brutality, it’s almost like a nervous tick. I think there’s a Traddie tendency to think religion has to be sourpuss, hard, painful, and dark.
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That’s because we’re part of a culture that puts everything on a sliding scale between progressive (left-wing) and conservative (right-wing). That’s not the right scale for most things. It only works for a certain kind of politics, and not very well at that. But Americans are sold on it as a culture. We believe in the political system that we’ve built around the original ideas the founders had, and we’ve extrapolated it to everything else, whether it works or not on those things. We try to MAKE it fit.

I’m neither progressive or conservative. Neither makes any sense in a real world in which political power isn’t really the driving force.
 
iloveangels said:
That’s because we’re part of a culture that puts everything on a sliding scale between progressive (left-wing) and conservative (right-wing). That’s not the right scale for most things. It only works for a certain kind of politics, and not very well at that. But Americans are sold on it as a culture.

I’m neither progressive or conservative. Neither makes any sense in a real world in which political power isn’t really the driving force.
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Right. I know I personally get caught up in trying to be consistent with which “side” of the scale I’m on. Le sigh…
 
WoundedIcon said:
Right. I know I personally get caught up in trying to be consistent with which “side” of the scale I’m on. Le sigh…
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Yup, that’s the wake-up call that you’re using the scale where it doesn’t belong.

Not that you can’t tell when something is right or wrong, you can. But you have to use a criteria that apply to right and wrong. Politics and money are only expedients, conditionals–it’s the most they can ever be.

What I mean is that reading scripture or looking at your faith or listening to legitimate authority (like the Holy See), or looking at your traditional culture–they might tell you that some things are wrong. Believe that. Then regard the management of politics or money as tools you may or may not use for getting the right thing done; sometimes you don’t need them and sometimes you do. It’s all the same; they’re tools. If they get in the way, do what St. Francis did and chuck them out the window. Or do what St. Francis de Sales did and use them when necessary and expedient. They lived in different times, different circumstances, but they both followed the Gospels.
 
I think the thing is that within this way of working that I just described, different religious orders take different parts of the work. I think this has been talked about in these vocations threads already. The Franciscans tend, by their charism, to take the work that means “chuck it out the window like St. Francis did” and be brothers and sisters to everyone because God is in charge and nothing’s going to change that. It’s a particular pattern that the Franciscans understand how to use. Franciscans are also interested in all the ways that God has worked creation. There have been scientists and thinkers among the Franciscans, including Roger Bacon.

The Dominicans do part of that too, but then their specialty is that they teach about right and wrong, what is and isn’t, legitimate authority and how to use that, which is absolutely necessary for understanding the world, including right and wrong. That’s very important and we should all pay attention when the Dominicans speak. Some of the world’s greatest thinkers have been Dominicans–Aquinas and Dominic himself included. It’s part of their charism to understand and write about these things. We all keep each other on track and work with each other. It would be a grave error to ignore each other.

The Salesians work with everyone where they are, even the lay middle class with all their problems and conflicts. They have to understand right and wrong too and bring it to the world of their workplaces and families. It’s the charism of the Salesians to do so, just as it was the work of St. Francis de Sales.
 
iloveangels said:
The Salesians work with everyone where they are, even the lay middle class with all their problems and conflicts. They have to understand right and wrong too and bring it to the world of their workplaces and families. It’s the charism of the Salesians to do so, just as it was the work of St. Francis de Sales.
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I was under the impression that Salesians have a primary focus of the poor, homeless, and the education of boys for the priesthood. I know little about them so I could be mistaken…
 
If one were to ask a Franciscan about God, he might say God is good. And in fact they do; they say “Pax et Bonum,” which is “peace and good.”

If one were to ask a Dominican about God, he might say God is truth, the Word, and the ground for all being. And he preaches and writes about these very things. It’s the work they do.

If one were to ask a Carmelite about God, he might say God is intimate and yet completely other, completely holy, and to understand this is to grow in faith. And he would be correct. Prayer is vital to the growth of faith.

God is all of these things, and this is the work that needs to be done. See the pattern? Yes, there are more pieces to the picture. There are at least 6 old renowned rules.
St. Albert
St. Francis
St. Benedict
St. Dominic
St. Augustine
And at least one other I can never remember, haha) If you have it, please chime in and help me out!

(And the needs of humanity being what they are, there are a lot of modern adaptations-ie associations & congregations- to handle practical or temporal situations in the world. It’s not an accident that these are founded around apostolates and not the old major rules.)

No one is “better” than the others. All are necessary and we must work together.
 
jwinch2 said:
I was under the impression that Salesians have a primary focus of the poor, homeless, and the education of boys for the priesthood. I know little about them so I could be mistaken…
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Yes, I just did my homework.

They were founded by St. John Bosco, who did work among young homeless boys displaced by the industrial revolution. But St. Francis de Sales was the patron and namesake for the order, and he was famous for working among all sorts of people including some well-off ones, helping them to manage their conflicts and spiritual lives.

We have 2 Salesian priests in my home diocese. They specialize in education now and work with families. They’re also missionaries. Both of our Salesians were originally from the Indian subcontinent.

It’s always fascinating to look at the presentations of the different orders and congregations in the church. He are the Salesians:
sdb.org/
EDIT: Please see the next page for necessary corrections to the rule the Dominicans use. Also please see above for corrections to what I said about Salesians who were really founded by St. Don Bosco, although their patron and namesake is St. Francis de Sales.*
 
iloveangels said:
There are at least 6 old renowned rules.
St. Albert
St. Francis
St. Benedict
St. Dominic
St. Augustine
And at least one other I can never remember, haha) If you have it, please chime in and help me out!
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As a point of clarification, there is no Dominican rule. The Order of Preachers uses the rule of St. Augustine. There are however, have constitutions which are specific to the Order which help to interpret and apply the rule.
 
jwinch2 said:
As a point of clarification, there is no Dominican rule. The Order of Preachers uses the rule of St. Augustine. There are however, have constitutions which are specific to the Order which help to interpret and apply the rule.
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I forgot that. Thank you for the correction. I edited the last post on page 17, directing it here for the correction. Thanks again.

Anyway, back to the point. The political sliding scale (conservative to progressive and all of its corollaries) isn’t really what Christianity is about. Making it fit, even with a crowbar, doesn’t work.
 
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