Spirituality of religious orders in Catholic tradition

[JReducation]

Imitation of Christ isn’t about doctrine and dogma, so I’m not sure how that relates.
In my opinion, anyone who says they refuse to read that book has no business counselling anyone in the spiritual life.

I wish also to add that if anyone were to attempt set up a dichotomy between doctrine and spirituality, (which I don’t believe you are doing, Tim), then of course that would be false and very wrong.

When considering doctrine and spirituality, Catholics need both/and not either/or. Both are necessary.

I agree. They need each other.

Spiritual Theology depends on doctrine to tell it what is True.

Dogmatic Theology depends on spiritual theology to tell it how to use Truth to become a saint.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV

 

[JReducation]

Hey! Jesuit formation lasts this long, or maybe longer.

All of the orders do. It’s the congregations that have shorter formation periods. The Jesuits are an oder. The word Society in their title is inaccurate. The word that St.Ignatius used was Company (military). In every language except English it’s called the Company of Jesus. There is no translation for Company into Latin. So when it was translated, it was changed to Societatis.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV

 

[TimothyH]

How DO you pray? Are you speaking of spontaneous prayer?

I’m talking about a half hour or an hour every day to speak with the greatest love of my life, Jesus. First I just sit still. I relax my muscles, easing the tension in my sholders/forearms/fists/forehead/whatever, and let it go. Breathe. Deep. Slow. Breathe. I might even yawn. I used to hate that. Now I know it is a sign that I am relaxing, either that or the three hours of sleep I got last night wasn’t enough.

Have ever seen someone die? I have. Their breathing gets shallow, and somewhat loud. Its unforgetable. They breathe slower and slower as they go into oxygen debt and their body begins to shut down.

***aaaaaaaah… haaaaaaa…aaaaaaah… haaaaaaa…

abba… father… abba… father…***

I close my eyes and breathe. ***Abba… Father… Abba… Father… ***Maybe now I kneel, and when I am ready I place myself in God’s presence.

***Lord God, Heavenly Father, I believe you surround me. You are everywhere around me. Like a fish encounters water, like a bird encounters air, you are everywhere around me. If I go up to heaven you are there. If I go down to hell you are there. If I go to the furtherst shore your right hand holds me fast. My Lord and my God, I believe you are everywhere, and you surround me.

My Lord and My God, I believe you are inside of me. You have promised that if I obey you, that you will come to me, that the Father and the Son will make their abode in me, and so I believe you are present inside of me right now. I can only see the outside of me but you see all of me. You see every bone, every muscle, every drop of blood. You know every thought and every action of my life. You know what I have done and what I am about to do. My Lord and my God, I believe you know me better than I know myself.

My Lord and my God, I believe you are present in Heaven, that you look down on your creation, that you pay attention to Christians, especially Christians at prayer. My Lord and my God, I believe you are listening to me now.***

And if I am in adoration…

***My Lord Jesus Christ, I believe you are present, that you can see me and hear me. I adore you with profound reverence. I ask pardon for my sins, and for the grace and peace to make this time of prayer fruitful. Mary my Immaculate Mother, Jospeh my Lord, St. Augustine my Patron, my guardian angel, pray for me. ***

That’s St. Francis de Sales.

Lord, you know everything. You know that I love you.

I might pray psalm 63 or the Magnificat or Psalm 91 as the mood strikes me. Its important to read God’s word and pray it back to him. And then I pour out my soul to God.

I was with a group of men recently and as part of a spiritual exercise, we were asked if we were honest with God when we pray. Most men said that they always held something back from God, but one man said that the only place he could be perfectly honest, the only place where he felt safe in opening up those parts of his heart and mind where no one was allowed to go, the only place where he could open up those places where it hurts too much to look was when he was alone with God. I feel that way too.

Sometimes I aks Mary to sit with me, to pray with me to her son, especially if I am praying the Office. But mostly I just tell God where I struggle, and ask him for help, and admit that, as another has said, I can do nothing without him. My life is proof that I can do nothing without him. Or I cry for the woman who’s husband has left after twenty years of marriage and she is loosing her house, or ask for the strenght to raise my children right. I thank God for allowing me to serve him as an altar server in an awsome parish with people who love me and care about me, and for all the other things too boring for this post.

***For Susie, for Autumn, for Darryl, for my daughers Emily and Amanda, and for myself Lord, hold us close, never let us go.

For my relationship with my daughters, Lord, help us to stay close.

For Micheal and Monique and their children, bring them close and protect those little children Lord.

For Darren, Joan, Tom, Bob, Janine, Arthur and all all those whom I love who are seperated from your Church.

For William, Stephie, Matty J, and all those in my family Lord who have died, Frank and Louise and Roberto and all my ancestors who I don’t even know, have mercy on their souls.

Help me to follow you Lord, even though I can’t see where you are leading me. **

Exhale: Our Father…
**Inhale: **Who art in heaven…
Exhale: Hallowed by thy name…

Abba… Father… *

I don’t know what else to say, except that it is imporant to listen. It’s important to say, “Speak Lord, for your servant is listening” and just sit still, hearing the train whistle or the motorcylce in the distance, the crickets outside, or even the hum of the flourescent lights. God sometimes speaks. It is uncanny. Sometimes he waits a while to let me know in other ways. Usually with big things he says nothing, and I know I will just have to grope around in the dark, I know I will just have to trust. Sigh. He is impossible to figure out.

I don’t know if this makes sense. It is just me. Maybe I sound like an idiot I really don’t care what anyone thinks. I like to pray.

One of the monks, the vocations director, said in a good New York accent, “Guys come and they tell me they got this devotion and that devotion and I tell them you gotta like to pray. Monks pray seven hours a day. Devotions are great. I still pray the rosary every day but you gotta like to pray.”

-Tim-

 

[TrueLight]

I’m talking about a half hour or an hour every day to speak with the greatest love of my life, Jesus.

-Tim-

I just want to say thank you for sharing. You shared a lot more than I imagined you would but I have a much fuller picture of what you mean.

It’s great that you love to pray.

Those into mysticism know our ultimate goal is union with God.

 

[JReducation]

Remember how I said that Franciscans and other religious are gradually pulling out of parishes to return to our roots.

The 4th Chapter of the Constitutions of the FFV shows more clearly why it is imperative that we not be boxed into priesthood and parishes in order to fulfill the mission that Francis gave to us after he received it from Christ himself. This is very hard to do, almost impossible, if you’re a parish priest.

**
Chapter 4: Serving the Gospel of Life

1. The brothers shall pay special attention to fathers. Through education programs and individual contacts, we hope to teach fathers that their children are children of God and to model for them respect for every human being, regardless of his developmental stage. Through our own obedience, we model obedience to the will of the Father in heaven, and lead fathers welcome their children into the world and educate them to fulfill God’s law. Whenever these programs and services are available through the diocese or the local parish, the brothers shall support them and cooperate with them. If they are needed, but are unavailable, the brothers will attempt to create them with the permission of the Diocesan Bishop or his delegate.
2. We do not ask the local diocese for funds to finance our service to the poor. We welcome all material assistance that God provides freely through the Church and other sources. However, if such funds are unavailable, we are willing to beg for support, always with the permission of the bishop. As Francis said,

a. And we were simple and subject to all. And I worked with my hands and I wish to work and I wish firmly that all the other brothers should work at some labor which is compatible with honesty. Let those who know not [how to work] learn, not through desire to receive the price of labor but for the sake of example and to repel idleness. And when the price of labor is not given to us, let us have recourse to the table of the Lord, begging alms from door to door, (Testament of the Holy Father St. Francis).

1. The sick and the elderly have a special place in our way of life. In our current culture of death considers those who have reached a certain age or whose health renders them incapable of productivity a burden that is disposable. However, the incarnation and the cross reveal to us God’s love for humanity. The sick and the elderly were of special concern to Jesus. They held a special place in his heart. Throughout history, we see God blessing the elderly as he blessed Abraham and Sarah with the birth of Isaac. He also blessed Zechariah and Elizabeth with the birth of John the Baptist. Through the elderly, God brought his chosen people into existence and raised up the greatest prophet in history.
2. We are not blind to this activity on the part of God. We recognize in the elderly, God’s providential love and their special place in the plan of salvation. Through presence and outreach to the elderly and their families, we hope, with the grace of God and the blessing of the Church, to point to the dignity in the elderly, by loving them as God loves them and by protecting them as God protects them. This will require education and consciousness raising. It is not an easy task or a task for everyone. Each brother will support it with his talents. The Fraternity will support the brother engaged with the elderly by offering material assistance and prayer. For every hand that touches the life of one of God’s poor, there must always be hearts and voices supporting that hand with prayer and material assistance. No hand is ever detached from the body. Otherwise, it’s not a living hand. Each brother is a hand connected to the Body of Christ. We realize that our work is but a drop in the ocean. However, without that drop, the ocean would be shallower.
3. The fraternity must bring Christ’s compassion to the sick, especially those whose lives are threatened by the culture of death. We believe that death with true dignity occurs when man dies at the time and in the manner determined by Providence, not by man. To accelerate death in the name of dignity is a distortion of the meaning of dignity. It takes away from man what God has given him, the capacity to share in redemptive love. The brothers must reach out to the sick and those who care for them. They must bring Christ’s redemptive love to the bedside of the sick. They should also educate family members and healthcare workers through their example and when necessary their words. They must remind the world that Jesus has the power to heal, forgive sins and that he lives in the sick. “I was sick and you looked after me,” (Mt. 35:36). His preferential love for the sick has not ceased. We want to draw people’s attention to those who suffer in body and soul. Our effort to comfort the sick and to bring home those who are away from the Church must be unceasing.
4. To help families and healthcare providers choose life, the brothers will work for the creation of education programs on end of life issues that proclaim the moral law and teach that the sick and elderly are not a problem to be solved, but brothers and sisters to be loved.
5. We offer to serve the immigrant poor, regardless of his or her status. We must distinguish between the duties of the civil state and the duties of the Christian conscience. While we encourage men and women of conscience to find a moral answers to the urgent questions surrounding immigration, our mission goes beyond the temporal and political. When St. Francis encountered the leper on the road, he did not ask him how he got there or how he caught leprosy. He embraced him and shared what he had. **

 

[JReducation]

**
24. When the crowd realized that they could not get the paralytic to Jesus using ordinary means, they cut an opening into the roof and lowered him into the presence of Christ, an unconventional way of entering a house. However, Jesus did not ask him how he got there or why they had violated the roof. Instead, Jesus ministered to his spiritual and physical needs. He forgave his sins and healed his disability. Like Jesus, we must render unto Caesar what is his and unto God what is God’s. “O man, what is good and what does the LORD require of you? To act justly and to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God,” (Mi 6:8)

1. Like St. Francis, we want to be disciples by imitating the Master. The Master never turned people away. Instead, he turned their lives around. We must point the immigrant poor to the Church and the sacraments. If we cannot alleviate their poverty, we can alleviate their loneliness and their fear. St. Francis knew what it was to be a foreigner. He was a soldier and later a missionary. However, the word stranger was never in his vocabulary. Whether a man is a neighbor or a foreigner, he’s always our brother, never a stranger. We pray and hope to bring life into the existence of the immigrant poor who feels that he is a stranger, welcoming and serving him as we would any other member of our family. Jesus comes to us disguised as an immigrant in search of a new life. “I was a stranger and you invited me in,” (Mt. 25:35).**

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV

 

[jwinch2]

Brother JR,

I thought you might be interested to note that a brand new novice Monk at the Abbey I have been going to recently took the name of Brother Francis. I didn’t have the opportunity to ask him why, but if I had to guess it would be St. Francis’s humility and obedience.

Abbot Lawrence also talked about the relationship between the orders in the story of how St. Francis came to possess the Church at Assisi. He jokingly said that the friars still dutifully bring the payment every year to the local Abbot, which I find both charming and hilarious.

Anyway, I thought you might enjoy that.

Peace,

 

[JReducation]

Brother JR,

I thought you might be interested to note that a brand new novice Monk at the Abbey I have been going to recently took the name of Brother Francis. I didn’t have the opportunity to ask him why, but if I had to guess it would be St. Francis’s humility and obedience.

Abbot Lawrence also talked about the relationship between the orders in the story of how St. Francis came to possess the Church at Assisi. He jokingly said that the friars still dutifully bring the payment every year to the local Abbot, which I find both charming and hilarious.

Anyway, I thought you might enjoy that.

Peace,

Which Francis, do you know?

de Sales
Xavier
Cabrini
Osuna

or the original?

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV

 

[jwinch2]

Which Francis, do you know?

de Sales
Xavier
Cabrini
Osuna

or the original?

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV

Yours…

 

[JReducation]

Yours…

The original model. You do know that he is the first Francis in world history.

Until his time, Francesco was not a name. It was an adjective, “the little Frenchman.” Legally, his name was Giovanni Battista di Bernadone. Because French was his first language, his father nicknamed him Francesco.

He never went back to Giovanni, because he had given up his right to his name. It was the only way to give up his title, The Firstborn Son and Heir Apparent of Pietro Bernadone

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV

 

[jwinch2]

The original model. You do know that he is the first Francis in world history.

Until his time, Francesco was not a name. It was an adjective, “the little Frenchman.” Legally, his name was Giovanni Battista di Bernadone. Because French was his first language, his father nicknamed him Francesco.

He never went back to Giovanni, because he had given up his right to his name. It was the only way to give up his title, The Firstborn Son and Heir Apparent of Pietro Bernadone

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV

No, I was not aware of that. Interesting stuff.

Regardless, I thought you would find the news that Benedictine Monk chose Francis as his patron interesting and I found the story of the friars bringing payment to the monks amusing.

Peace,

 

[JReducation]

No, I was not aware of that. Interesting stuff.

Regardless, I thought you would find the news that Benedictine Monk chose Francis as his patron interesting and I found the story of the friars bringing payment to the monks amusing.

Peace,

Hey, Franciscans take that very seriously. It’s an 800 year custom. If I’m not mistaken the dead to the property is in the name of the Holy See, not the order.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV

 

[jwinch2]

Hey, Franciscans take that very seriously. It’s an 800 year custom. If I’m not mistaken the dead to the property is in the name of the Holy See, not the order.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV

You might be right, I don’t remember the Abbot speaking about that. I know he did say that the payment was something along the lines of 3-4 fish and a bag of salt.

 

[Ohana]

A question. What is a Conventual Franciscan. Ran into a priest (monk) with a black habit and large red cross on it and asked what order he was in, and that was the answer. What does that mean? Thanks. Thought this might be the best place to find and answer.

 

[JReducation]

A question. What is a Conventual Franciscan. Ran into a priest (monk) with a black habit and large red cross on it and asked what order he was in, and that was the answer. What does that mean? Thanks. Thought this might be the best place to find and answer.

Franciscans are not allowed to wear crosses or crucifixes. That would not be one.

A Conventual Franciscan is a friar who lives in a convent. There are about 8,000 Conventual Franciscans. Their habit is black or grey with a cowl.

View attachment 15207

One never refers to a Franciscan of any kind as a Franciscan priest. He’s always either a Franciscan brother or a Franciscan friar. This makes all the friars equal, the priests and the non-clerical friars.

You identify them by saying a friar-priest or a brother-priest.

I’m wondering who wears a black habit with a red cross. Could it be the Crossiers?

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV

 

[Ohana]

Franciscans are not allowed to wear crosses or crucifixes. That would not be one.

A Conventual Franciscan is a friar who lives in a convent. There are about 8,000 Conventual Franciscans. Their habit is black or grey with a cowl.

View attachment 15207

One never refers to a Franciscan of any kind as a Franciscan priest. He’s always either a Franciscan brother or a Franciscan friar. This makes all the friars equal, the priests and the non-clerical friars.

You identify them by saying a friar-priest or a brother-priest.

I’m wondering who wears a black habit with a red cross. Could it be the Crossiers?

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV

He was concelebrating a Charismatic Mass so what he was wearing may have been a vestment. There is a house of conventual Franciscans in Chicago, so he may have been from there. Thanks JR and thank you too for the clarification of language.

By the way, how does one tell if a franciscan is a priest. I am not shy about asking, so that is clearly one way. Is there a visual sign?

 

[JReducation]

He was concelebrating a Charismatic Mass so what he was wearing may have been a vestment. There is a house of conventual Franciscans in Chicago, so he may have been from there. Thanks JR and thank you too for the clarification of language.

By the way, how does one tell if a franciscan is a priest. I am not shy about asking, so that is clearly one way. Is there a visual sign?

EXCELLENT QUESTION – ATTENTION EVERYONE

Franciscans of any kind are not allowed to single themselves out. Therefore, the priest, the cook, the theologian, the doctor, the social worker and the gardener are equal in rank, dignity, rights, duties and moral obligations. What makes us different from one another is our ministry.

The friars who are priests are never to set themselves apart from the friars who are priests. Even when dressing in a suit, everyone wears a black suit and Roman collar, even novices.

You can’t tell, unless you ask. In some communities, the friars are not allowed to tell you if they are priests, unless you ask to go to confession. This has been happening more and more, because superiors are getting angry at the laity. Many laymen will not go to spiritual direction with anyone who is not a priest, not accept a theology professor who is not a priest, or bypass a superior of a house, if he’s not a priest. After a while, this gets very frustrating and creates difficulties in assigning friars.

For example, we have one priest who is our maintenance man. He helps at a parish on Saturdays and Sundays. Mondays through Friadays, he’s a maintenance man and a darn good one too. He can fix anything, even if it’s not broken. Then you have a friar like me, who is a theologian, spiritual director, administrator, seminary professor, but not a priest. One of the courses I teach is the history of the EF and how to celebrate it. It’s a very short course, six weeks and it’s over.

However, I received an ugly letter from a poster on CAF demanding to know why I was teaching priests about the EF, if I am not a priest. “This should only be taught by a priest,” he said. Do you see why we don’t parade who is and who is not a priest? People don’t appreciate the every Franciscan is first a Son of St. Francis.

If you were a Dominican, that’s different. The Dominicans have to parallel vocations, the priests and the coadjutor brothers. Their formation is different and their way of life is different. Yet, at some point in the 20th century, they changed the habit so that all Dominicans dress the same. They too are stressing their fraternity over their different ministries.

This takes nothing away from the sacredness of Holy Orders. Holy Orders and the priest are highly respected and loved.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV

 

[Marauder]

Since I deal with Conventual Franciscans all the time, unless you know them personally the only way you usually can tell which are priests and which are brothers are if you go to Mass and they put on the vestments they are a priest, but not all priests in attendance will get in vestments. Depends on if they are concelibrating or not. If you go to confession and they are the person you are confessing to they are a priest. Otherwise you assume they aren’t. You are always “safe” calling a Franciscan “Brother”. One of my previous spiritual assistants who was a priest actually preferred to be called Brother but never corrected any lay people that would call him Father. Whenever a lay person the knew he was a priest called him Brother instead of Father he smiled.

Just because a person in the Franciscan Order is ordained doesn’t mean they are above or better then those that aren’t. They just have different aspect to their ministry then a brother that isn’t ordained.

 

[jwinch2]

This brings up a question for me personally. When I go to the monastery, I have no way of telling who is a priest and who is not. Obviously, I have come to know some of the monks and have seen them con-celebrating Mass, etc. However, for the most part, unless I do a study of their bios on the abbey website, I would not know who the priests are with the exception of those I know.

So, am I safe addressing a monk as “brother” without showing disrespect in cases when I don’t know if they are a priest or not? I’m sure that over time, I will come to know more of the monks and recognize who is who a bit easier, but in the meantime, it can be difficult.

Peace,

 

[GaryTaylor]

This brings up a question for me personally. When I go to the monastery, I have no way of telling who is a priest and who is not. Obviously, I have come to know some of the monks and have seen them con-celebrating Mass, etc. However, for the most part, unless I do a study of their bios on the abbey website, I would not know who the priests are with the exception of those I know.

So, am I safe addressing a monk as “brother” without showing disrespect in cases when I don’t know if they are a priest or not? I’m sure that over time, I will come to know more of the monks and recognize who is who a bit easier, but in the meantime, it can be difficult.

Peace,

Good question.