Spirituality of religious orders in Catholic tradition

[jwinch2]

BINGO!

I know that experience very well. I’ve met three in my lifetime. Archbishop Sheen, Mother Teresa and Pope John Paul.

Archbishop Sheen I met in a crowd. That was not too bad. He and I exchanged greetings in 90 secs or less.

Bl. John Paul I attended his Midnight Mass one Christmas. He granted me the grace of a private audience before I entered religious life. My son’s last request of me, before we part was to meet Pope John Paul. My superior made it happen. We spoke for about 5 min. The next time I met him was at a formal visitation of the order. We were about 50 of us. He came around the room and greeted each of us. I was stunned when he came to me and said, “Brother, how is your young son?” Three years had gone by. Do you realize how many people a pope meets in three years?

Bl. Mother Teresa I met in Washington, before I entered religious life. She was opening a shelter for AIDS patients. I worked for Archdiocese at the time. I helped them a little bit to get open. On the opening day, everyone gathered. She was there. As he said hello to different people, I pushed through the crowd or I was pushed. I have no idea. I just felt my self propelled forward. Suddenly, I was standing in front of her. I reached out for her hand. She looked at me and said, “What are you waiting for?” I looked at her and said, “Excuse me Mother?” She repeated, “What are you waiting for? Can’t you hear him calling?” I was totally confused. That night I had a dream. I was in a room with no windows and no candles or electricity, yet there was light. I looked directly in front of me and in a wheel chair was our Holy Father Francis. I remember very clearly asking him, "Why are you in a wheel chair?’ He looked at me and signaled me to follow. As I followed, I saw written on a wall, “And you will be filled in heaven.”

After I awoke, I knew that I had read those words before. I went to the old books that the friars had given me on St. Francis while I was in their school. And in the Testament I found this And may whoever observes this rule be filled in heaven with the blessing of the most high Father,

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV

Wow. Great stuff Brother.

And 12 novices, that is awesome too!

 

[guanophore]

No it’s because that is not the mission of the abbey. It is an abbey of contemplatives.

Are not all Benedictine Abbeys contemplative? Don’t they all have various missions? Mine has a mission of providing Retreats, Charismatic among them.

By having an abbey with a contemplative mission end up with an extensive external apostolate, which is what was happening.

Yes, I can see how that would be problematic. The retreats held at my Abbey are primarily on site, and are contemplative in focus.

There’s much more to it, but which I would rather be discrete about.

Feel free to send me a PM! I am trying to learn on this topic.

 

[JReducation]

Wow. Great stuff Brother.

And 12 novices, that is awesome too!

Yes, it’s a blessing. It’s the beginning a our new community. This weekend, we become an autonomous community from the larger Franciscan community. We will formally be the Fratres Franciscani Vitae (Society of the Franciscan Brothers of Life). I will have the honor of being it’s first superior general.

We’re just a little group, still looking for good religious and secular brothers. But God is good. He has given us 12 novices to start with. Today was like a honeymoon day. The novices were filled with such spirit and joy.

At the end of the day, Br.Vito of St. Maximilian, Bill until yesterday, came to me and told me how he felt that he was walking in the presence of the Holy Spirit all day. After our conversation, I remembered our Holy Father Francis that one spring day in April 1209 when he set forth for Rome with 11 brothers to ask for Pope Innocent’s blessing.

It was so funny, because as I sat there, thinking about it, I also remembered all of the difficulties that Francis had keeping the brotherhood safe and together. I suddenly felt very insignificant. As I said to one my my dearest CAF friends tonight, I can only do this through his grace. I am nothing. **I can do nothing without Him who is Everything. **

I have no idea where we’re going with this. My only thoughts are those of St. John of the Cross. We take our cross, step out into the night, not able to see where we’re going, but in the full knowledge that someone is guiding us to the light.

This Sunday, we will step out into the dark night. We don’t have a permanent status yet. The Archbishop, who is a very holy man and a very strong supporter of religious life and the voiceless has given us his blessing to grow and to serve freely in his diocese. Like Pope Innocent said to Francis, he has said to us that we are to return to him when we have grown in numbers.

I’m very emotional at the thought that I have spent my entire life admiring this man (Francis) from a distance of 800 years. Now, I get to walk the same path of uncertainty that he walked in 1209. Yet, something tells me that as St. John of the Cross says, there will be a guiding hand leading us through the night.

Next week, the other Franciscans will return to the Mother House or go on to their new assignments and the Franciscans of Life will be on our own. It’s going to be sad to see them go, because we’ve been together for years. They have been so supportive of this project.

When I first brought it up three years ago, I was afraid that the superior was going to be upset. I was pleasantly surprised at his response. I still remember it. He sat there and said, “The Franciscans of Life will happen, because the eternal Son of God was once a voiceless victim. What you’re proposing is to serve the voiceless Christ in the manner that Francis would serve him. How can God not want this?”

Then I went to the bishop and he was right there so available and so kind. I was blown away. I remember him asking me, “Who are the voiceless?”

I simply said, “The unborn child, the sick and elderly threatened by euthanasia, the immigrant poor who has no rights and feels hopeless . . . should I keep going?” He said no, that’s a big enough mission field. He told me to write a constitution and submit it. He even told me what to say in my cover letter. Good gravy, it couldn’t have been easier.

We have seven professed, 12 novices, 11 postulants and 10 secular brothers.

It’s very exciting on the one hand, a lot of work on the other hand, and a very humbling experience.

We’re still working on the little things. There are all kinds of legal papers to get your 501(c)3 status and so that you can change things like your electric account and the registration on our car, get a bank account and more. Government is a little complicated at times. In the meantime, we have five pregnancy centers to take care of and a 400 bed hospital.

If any men out there feel like jumping on board an adventure cruise, this is the place to be.

WARNING: I have a reputation for being a stickler for tradition. I’m not talking EF and Latin. I’m talking Franciscan tradition, which is very demanding on obedience and detachment.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV

 

[Armyvet007]

Brother,

I’m going to take you up on your offer. My interest in the religous orders mainly focus on the Frasciscans and the Jesuits, and their histories, their life [culture?] and what spiritual teachings I, as a happily married father, can learn from. Of the two, my interest is in St. Francis. I’ve had an attachment to him since Iraq * and really attribute to him my re-embracing the Faith.

I also have a real interest in the history and historical roles that the religous orders have played within the Church; with a focus on the pre-Reformation time period “Dark Ages” to the Middle Ages]. This is mainly an academic desire on my part. I’m fascinated by both that time period and the monastic communities of that time.

Most importantly, I’m fascinated by the sense of inner peace and joy most brothers I’ve meet seem to have. Is that something a layman can also attain; and if so how do I go about it? Frankly for me it has been like finding a hidden part of the Church I had no clue existed.

I’ve been stalking [in a good way] your posts on CAF and I keep finding hints of the brotherhood, sense of purpose, and community that I had in the Army and that I still miss very much now that I’m medically retired.

I’d be more then happy for any suggestions you might have in the way of authors, works, or internet sites that would help me sate my curiosity. *.

Thank you in advance
Post script- I apologize if the post rambles/is confusing. I took my sleeping meds prior to starting it.**

 

[Mrs_Sally]

May I ask which diocese? It sounds like Boston.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV

Nope. I am in your home diocese - Arlington.

 

[Mrs_Sally]

BINGO!I don’t bite. Ask the brothers. The will tell you that I’m a stickler for tradition, but I’m a softy too. I received 12 new novices last night. They had me crying.

I know that experience very well. I’ve met three in my lifetime. Archbishop Sheen, Mother Teresa and Pope John Paul.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV

God be praised! 12 novices is a wonderful thing. I will include them in my prayers tonight!

When we were in Rome, we went to a public audience. I was busy taking pictures of the Cardinals on the dias, but as soon as John Paul entered the hall, and walked down the aisle were we could reach out our hands to him, my camera broke. So my claim to fame is only that Blessed John Paul broke my camera.

 

[EcceAgnusDei]

That’s right. And I would take Aquinas out of that lineup. He never claimed to be a Spiritual Theologian, nor is he held up as one either. He can’t hold a candle to his sister, Catherine of Sienna.

Brother, I can kinda see where you are coming from, as I am drawn to mystical theology myself, but I don’t think we should downgrade St. Thomas Aquinas in such a way. He is, after all, the Angelic Doctor. That is a title of high reverence. At the Council of Trent (as most know), his Summa was placed on the altar next to the Bible. I’m not sure saying that he “can’t hold a candle to his sister” is giving him the incredible respect that he is due, the respect that Holy Mother Church has given him.

Thomas is a Dogmatic Theologian. He deals in dogmas or in plain English, teachings. He never dealt too much on the spiritual life. He wrote very little about it and he is not known for having done much ministry in that area. In fact, that’s not an area where the Dominican Friars look to Thomas. They look to Dominic and Catherine for guidance in the spiritual life.

Dogma tells you what truth is. Spiritual Theology, tells you how to get to heaven. Spiritual Theology, if you want to put it in very modern terms, it’s an applied theology. It tells you what to do with Truth or how to come to know Truth.

I absolutely agree with you. However, I don’t think this means that we should somehow denigrate St. Thomas Aquinas. He gave the foundation upon which others could build. Without a sure foundation of truth free from error, the spiritual life is bound to fail. Just because others taught how to apply the truth doesn’t mean that the greatest theologian to explain and defend those truths should somehow be held in less esteem. St. Thomas Aquinas gave us the terms, the language, and the context in which we could best understand God and our relationship to Him. He made the map; others made the journey. Without the map, they probably would not have been successful in their journey, as it would have been easy to take side paths that led to nowhere. I think this is one of the reasons why Thomism should once again be emphasized in seminary and religious formation. If we use secular, modern, and often atheistic philosophical concepts and terms to describe God, we shouldn’t be too surprised when they fail and everyone becomes confused. Let’s bring the conversation back onto our turf, so to speak. Thomistic philosophy was very clear and unambiguous. Of course not all if it is dogma (I’m not suggesting that), but it worked as a fantastic framework to understand God for the past 700 years, including surviving and beating the modern onslaught of the protestant revolution.

Aquinas tells you what Truth is and he defends it. The problem that no one had ever brought up regarding Aquinas until Pope Benedict became pope is that Thomism is “self serving” to quote the Holy Father. It exists for the purpose of teaching truth and defending what it teaches. Thomism does not guarantee that you will become a saint, because you know these things or because you can defend them. That was not what Aquinas was trying to do. He was trying to separate Truth from error.

I’m not quite sure how teaching truth and defending it can be seen as self-serving, since self-serving implies selfishness which then implies something to be avoided. Is it selfish to teach the truth and defend it? Can you clarify Pope Benedict’s statement? I’ve never heard that before and it is very confusing to be told that defending the truth is self-serving.

The work of the parish priest is sacramental, not spiritual. Some are very good at it, because they stayed in school to study spirituality or they studied it on their own. But it’s not required of priests to study the spiritual life. That’s not in the Church’s program of studies for priestly formation. It is in the program of formation for religious and secular orders.

Hmmm. Well, since the major contact that laity have with the Church is through the parish priest, do you think it would be beneficial for the parish priest to be better trained in spirituality? I’d hate to think of them as sacrament machines; it seems like it would be far better for them to be shepherds of the flock, well-trained and well-versed in spirituality in order to help the vast majority of Catholics attain salvation and heaven.

I don’t remember about Archbishop Sheen. I know he had an STD. (Degree)

I’m sorry, but this made me giggle. I’m glad that you clarified that Archbishop Fulton Sheen’s STD was a post-secondary degree.

In fact, with the renewal of religious life, I see us going the other way, back to a stratified and very delineated system as it was during the Middle Ages and earlier.

I’m generally a fan of the Middle Ages, for various reasons, so I smiled to read this.

• PAX

ETA: I’m a big fan of Archbishop Sheen. I often wish the laity had greater access to Bishops with his ability to describe and defend Catholic doctrine, while simultaneously instilling a love of the Church. He was certainly a gift from God and I’m glad that we have access to his writings (I’m currently reading “The Life of Christ” and loving it), his video, and his audio.

 

[TimothyH]

Your clear. However…

This has nothing to do with being a traditionalist or not.

It doesn’t look like Timothy approached the novice director in an arrogant way. Of course if someone approaches someone learned in a discipline like they know better than the learned person, that person will get upset.

It was at the end of a 1.5 hour session with the novice director in the context of a vocations retreat, with several men who were there for the second or third time, at least two of which are now at the monastery. The director asked at the end if we had any questions, and among the questions asked, I wanted to know what the role of mortification and asceticism played in their life at the monastery and how it fit into the life of a Christian in general, if there was any application in the life of an ordinary layperson out in the world. Honestly, I don’t think I approached him in an arrogant way. All respected the man who was clearly our spirtual superior. I asked sincerly and he looked at me and nodded his head as I spoke.

I think he reacted strongly to the mention of Thomas Kempis and The Imitation of Christ. He seemed to listen to me until I mentioned the author and book and interrupted immediately with “Oh, I would never read that!” and went on.

I’ve had it in my mind to go back and ask him about the episode if I ever get the chance, if I though he would remember. Whether I do or not, the fact that Christ used him to speak to me in some small way is enough.

-Tim-

 

[Irishgal49]

I don’t see any Catholic practice that must exclude Charismatic spirituality. You seem to be assuming that none of the Desert fathers had charismatic experiences?

Frankly I would like to find a church where they don’t run everything. I’m not interested and sick of it.

 

[wasserfall]

I think he reacted strongly to the mention of Thomas Kempis and The Imitation of Christ. He seemed to listen to me until I mentioned the author and book and interrupted immediately with “Oh, I would never read that!” and went on.

Wow. I can’t imagine a Catholic religious saying that. Just wow.
That would be to me an indication that something was very wrong in that place.
I would be out of that monastery so fast they’d wonder if I was ever there in the first place.

 

[EcceAgnusDei]

Wow. I can’t imagine a Catholic religious saying that. Just wow.
That would be to me an indication that something was very wrong in that place.
I would be out of that monastery so fast they’d wonder if I was ever there in the first place.

Agreed. “The Imitation of Christ” is one of the great classics of Catholic spirituality. To be so dismissive of it would seem to belie an underlying issue that I wouldn’t want to subject myself to.

• PAX

 

[TimothyH]

My friends, it’s about prayer. It’s about finding a quiet place to be still and know that He is God.

I beat my head against doctrine and dogma until I was sure I had theology figured out. And then I started to pray. Not just “Bless us O Lord” before meals and reading a paragraph from a card, but real prayer, every day, and everything changed. My life changed.

The monk taught me how to make Jesus real in my life because in addition to anything else he may have said, he taught me how to pray. The man who prays seven hours a day taught me how to pray.

I don’t know if you guys pray alot, and it is not my business one way or another, but if anyone reading this doesn’t pray, it will change your life.

-Tim-

 

[jwinch2]

My friends, it’s about prayer. It’s about finding a quiet place to be still and know that He is God.

I beat my head against doctrine and dogma until I was sure I had theology figured out. And then I started to pray. Not just “Bless us O Lord” before meals and reading a paragraph from a card, but real prayer, every day, and everything changed. My life changed.

The monk taught me how to make Jesus real in my life because in addition to anything else he may have said, he taught me how to pray. The man who prays seven hours a day taught me how to pray.

-Tim-

Great stuff.

Thanks for sharing that…

Peace,

 

[TrueLight]

My friends, it’s about prayer. It’s about finding a quiet place to be still and know that He is God.

I beat my head against doctrine and dogma until I was sure I had theology figured out. And then I started to pray. Not just “Bless us O Lord” before meals and reading a paragraph from a card, but real prayer, every day, and everything changed. My life changed.

The monk taught me how to make Jesus real in my life because in addition to anything else he may have said, he taught me how to pray. The man who prays seven hours a day taught me how to pray.

-Tim-

How DO you pray? Are you speaking of spontaneous prayer?

 

[wasserfall]

My friends, it’s about prayer. It’s about finding a quiet place to be still and know that He is God.

I beat my head against doctrine and dogma until I was sure I had theology figured out. And then I started to pray. Not just “Bless us O Lord” before meals and reading a paragraph from a card, but real prayer, every day, and everything changed. My life changed.

Imitation of Christ isn’t about doctrine and dogma, so I’m not sure how that relates.
In my opinion, anyone who says they refuse to read that book has no business counselling anyone in the spiritual life.

 

[wasserfall]

I beat my head against doctrine and dogma until I was sure I had theology figured out. And then I started to pray. Not just “Bless us O Lord” before meals and reading a paragraph from a card, but real prayer, every day, and everything changed. My life changed.

I wish also to add that if anyone were to attempt set up a dichotomy between doctrine and spirituality, (which I don’t believe you are doing, Tim), then of course that would be false and very wrong.

When considering doctrine and spirituality, Catholics need both/and not either/or. Both are necessary.

 

[choliks]

I wish also to add that if anyone were to attempt set up a dichotomy between doctrine and spirituality, (which I don’t believe you are doing, Tim), then of course that would be false and very wrong.

When considering doctrine and spirituality, Catholics need both/and not either/or. Both are necessary.

I agree. They need each other.

 

[JReducation]

Brother, I can kinda see where you are coming from, as I am drawn to mystical theology myself, but I don’t think we should downgrade St. Thomas Aquinas in such a way. He is, after all, the Angelic Doctor. That is a title of high reverence. At the Council of Trent (as most know), his Summa was placed on the altar next to the Bible. I’m not sure saying that he “can’t hold a candle to his sister” is giving him the incredible respect that he is due, the respect that Holy Mother Church has given him.

I’m not taking anything from him. I’m trying to clarity and present him as the Church sees him. Even the title, Angelic Doctor can be very impressive to the person who does not know that Bonaventure was called the Seraphic Doctor or Francis is called The Mirror of Perfection. Are three in competition? Not at all. Those titles mean something. They describe the life and work of the person.

To say that Thomas is not a spiritual theologian and we do not look to him as a spiritual guide is to see him as the Church sees him. She has never looked to him as a spiritual guide. She has always looked to him a dogmatic teacher, not spiritual teacher. For that the Church has always look to people like Benedict, Augustine, Francis, Catherine, Teresa of Avila, John of the Cross and Francis de Sales. Those are the great masters of the spiritual life, not Aquinas. On the flip side of that coin, they don’t present themselves as masters of doctrine.

That would fall to the Fathers, Aquinas, Bonaventure, Alphonse, Lawrence, and Robert. In fact, it is John of the Cross whom the Church officially called The Teacher of the Faith.

I absolutely agree with you. However, I don’t think this means that we should somehow denigrate St. Thomas Aquinas. He gave the foundation upon which others could build. Without a sure foundation of truth free from error, the spiritual life is bound to fail. Just because others taught how to apply the truth doesn’t mean that the greatest theologian to explain and defend those truths should somehow be held in less esteem. St. Thomas Aquinas gave us the terms, the language, and the context in which we could best understand God and our relationship to Him. He made the map; others made the journey. Without the map, they probably would not have been successful in their journey, as it would have been easy to take side paths that led to nowhere. I think this is one of the reasons why Thomism should once again be emphasized in seminary and religious formation.

Let me clarify here, because there is a misunderstanding here and it was caused by Trent. Thomism was never required of anyone except Dominicans and secular clergy. Religious were always free to choose. For example, Franciscans study very little Thomas. He is scattered here and there, with a two semester course thrown into the mix. However, Francis and Bonaventure are studied from year one to year 10. The Redemptorists do the same. One or two semesters of Thomism and year one to 10 of Alphonse Ligouri. The Jesuits focus on Ignatius. This does not mean that after that one year of intense Thomism, you never look at the man’s work again. Of course you do. He’s comes up in almost every area of dogmatic theology. But not all dogmatic theology is taught from Thomas.

Even our current pope admits that he took the minimum of Thomas and took all of his courses form Augustine and Bonaventure, because he found Thomas to be self-serving. I don’t think that myself, because I don’t know enough to compare him. I can only compare him to those in my field of theology. I’m in spiritual theology. We don’t use him in that area. Once we move beyond dogma, Aquinas is not mentioned again. He did not make a big contribution to the other areas of theology. We do use his systems, because you can carry systems everywhere. Personally, I don’t use his systems. But I know spiritual theologians who do so. I use Bonaventure’s systems.

I’m not quite sure how teaching truth and defending it can be seen as self-serving, since self-serving implies selfishness which then implies something to be avoided. Is it selfish to teach the truth and defend it? Can you clarify Pope Benedict’s statement? I’ve never heard that before and it is very confusing to be told that defending the truth is self-serving.

The first thing that one has to understand is that the language of the Church is not the language of Webster. Self-serving in theology has nothing to do with the theologian. It’s about his methods. When the Holy Father, speaking as a theologian about another theologian with whom he can compete, says “self-serving” he means that Thomas’ method is using truth for the sake of learning truth. Whereas, Augustine and Bonaventure use faith for the same of learning truth. It’s faith illuminating truth. In Thomas it’s truth illuminating truth.

Thomas does not start with faith. He starts with reason in order to speak about faith in a rational manner. It’s self-serving in that it begins with reason and ends with reason.
Whereas Bonaventure and Augustine being with faith and end in reason. He is saying that Thomas’ method begins with reason to lead you back to reason. In other words, it’s reason in the service of reason. Neither the Holy Father, Augustine or Bonaventure deny the importance of reason. They simply see reason as the beneficiary of faith, not as its own beneficiary.

 

[JReducation]

Hmmm. Well, since the major contact that laity have with the Church is through the parish priest, do you think it would be beneficial for the parish priest to be better trained in spirituality?

There are so many things that a parish priest could use that it would be impossible to fit it all into a six year program. They could use more spiritual theology, business courses, human resource courses, communication courses, more psychology courses, education courses, you get my meaning.

I’d hate to think of them as sacrament machines; it seems like it would be far better for them to be shepherds of the flock, well-trained and well-versed in spirituality in order to help the vast majority of Catholics attain salvation and heaven.

Spiritual Theology is the area of study that follows a four-year theology masters, for those who want it. It’s three more years, which means that you’re in school for 11 years. I went through it, because I loved being in school. Not everyone does. Spiritual theology certainly can help a priest who engages in spiritual direction, but it also goes into so much more that the average priest will never do. That’s why it’s not too attractive. How many priests work in retreat ministry? How many are chaplains? How many are educators? How many are theologians? How many are writers?

That’s always a conversation stopper. LOL

ETA: I’m a big fan of Archbishop Sheen. I often wish the laity had greater access to Bishops with his ability to describe and defend Catholic doctrine, while simultaneously instilling a love of the Church. He was certainly a gift from God and I’m glad that we have access to his writings (I’m currently reading “The Life of Christ” and loving it), his video, and his audio.

He was excellent. One of my favorite spiritual theologians. That’s why he was not an ordinary for very long. He was a horrible bishop. He was really meant to do what he did, to be a teacher of Christian Spirituality.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV

 

[choliks]

Spiritual Theology is the area of study that follows a four-year theology masters, for those who want it. **It’s three more years, which means that you’re in school for 11 years. ** I went through it, because I loved being in school. Not everyone does. Spiritual theology certainly can help a priest who engages in spiritual direction, but it also goes into so much more that the average priest will never do. That’s why it’s not too attractive. How many priests work in retreat ministry? How many are chaplains? How many are educators? How many are theologians? How many are writers?

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV

Hey! Jesuit formation lasts this long, or maybe longer.