SPLIT: Catholics have no assurance of salvation

[Pitcharan]

…As for an “assurance” of salvation that us Catholics don’t have, it’s probably been already said but I’ll say it anyway. Just because one *thinks *they have some assurance of salvation does not mean that they actually *have *an assurance of salvation. …

The CC cannot offer an assurance other than what God offers. The offer of salvation is made clear at the very outset. How to attain it? What is our role? What are the pitfalls? what are the aids? The CC is God’s own institution for salavtion and offers no more and no less than what God offers. Neither CC nor God can impose salvation, which by definition has to be gained by free exercise of will that is in harmony with God’s will. The role of the CC is to reach out to all people and guide them to salvation. CC is instituted by God who was unhappy with the Levitic shepherds and promised to appoint Davidic shepherds after His own heart.(relevant OT verses quoted below)

INSTITUTION OF CATHOLIC CHURCH BY GOD, FORETOLD IN THE OT
Then I will give you shepherds after my own heart, who will lead you with knowledge and understanding. (Jer 3:15)

“Woe to the shepherds who are destroying and scattering the sheep of my pasture!” declares the LORD. Therefore this is what the LORD, the God of Israel, says to the shepherds who tend my people: “Because you have scattered my flock and driven them away and have not bestowed care on them, I will bestow punishment on you for the evil you have done,” declares the LORD. "I myself will gather the remnant of my flock out of all the countries where I have driven them and will bring them back to their pasture, where they will be fruitful and increase in number. I will place shepherds over them who will tend them, and they will no longer be afraid or terrified, nor will any be missing," declares the LORD. (Jer 23:1-4)

This is what the Sovereign LORD says: I am against the shepherds and will hold them accountable for my flock. I will remove them from tending the flock so that the shepherds can no longer feed themselves. I will rescue my flock from their mouths, and it will no longer be food for them. " 'For this is what the Sovereign LORD says: I myself will search for my sheep and look after them. As a shepherd looks after his scattered flock when he is with them, so will I look after my sheep. I will rescue them from all the places where they were scattered on a day of clouds and darkness. I will bring them out from the nations and gather them from the countries, and I will bring them into their own land. I will pasture them on the mountains of Israel, in the ravines and in all the settlements in the land. I myself will tend my sheep and have them lie down, declares the Sovereign LORD. I will search for the lost and bring back the strays. I will bind up the injured and strengthen the weak, but the sleek and the strong I will destroy. I will shepherd the flock with justice. I will place over them one shepherd, my servant David, and he will tend them; he will tend them and be their shepherd. (Ezekiel 34: 10-13, 15-16 & 23)

 

[paul_c]

It seems to me that the best answer to this from scripture itself: This is from Paul’s letter to the Philipians (chapter 3);

8 More than that, I even consider everything as a loss because of the supreme good of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord. For his sake I have accepted the loss of all things and I consider them so much rubbish, that I may gain Christ
9 and be found in him, not having any righteousness of my own based on the law but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God, depending on faith
10 to know him and the power of his resurrection and (the) sharing of his sufferings by being conformed to his death,
11 if somehow I may attain the resurrection from the dead.
12 It is not that I have already taken hold of it or have already attained perfect maturity, but I continue my pursuit in hope that I may possess it, since I have indeed been taken possession of by Christ (Jesus).
13 Brothers, I for my part do not consider myself to have taken possession. Just one thing: forgetting what lies behind but straining forward to what lies ahead,
14 I continue my pursuit toward the goal, the prize of God’s upward calling, in Christ Jesus.
15 Let us, then, who are “perfectly mature” adopt this attitude. And if you have a different attitude, this too God will reveal to you.
16 Only, with regard to what we have attained, continue on the same course.

Now if St . Paul, who was personally commissioned by the risen Christ did not feel he had assurance of salvation, Why would anyone else think they do?

 

[Pitcharan]

It seems to me that the best answer to this from scripture itself: This is from Paul’s letter to the Philipians (chapter 3);

8 More than that, I even consider everything as a loss because of the supreme good of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord. For his sake I have accepted the loss of all things and I consider them so much rubbish, that I may gain Christ
9 and be found in him, not having any righteousness of my own based on the law but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God, depending on faith
10 to know him and the power of his resurrection and (the) sharing of his sufferings by being conformed to his death,
11 if somehow I may attain the resurrection from the dead.
12 It is not that I have already taken hold of it or have already attained perfect maturity, but I continue my pursuit in hope that I may possess it, since I have indeed been taken possession of by Christ (Jesus).
13 Brothers, I for my part do not consider myself to have taken possession. Just one thing: forgetting what lies behind but straining forward to what lies ahead,
14 I continue my pursuit toward the goal, the prize of God’s upward calling, in Christ Jesus.
15 Let us, then, who are “perfectly mature” adopt this attitude. And if you have a different attitude, this too God will reveal to you.
16 Only, with regard to what we have attained, continue on the same course.

Now if St . Paul, who was personally commissioned by the risen Christ did not feel he had assurance of salvation, Why would anyone else think they do?

You hit the nail on the head Paul by precisely quoting your name sake. Here, let me add to it: Therefore I do not run like a man running aimlessly; I do not fight like a man beating the air. No, I beat my body and make it my slave so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified for the prize. (1Cor 9:26-27)

 

[distracted]

Actually, there’s no need to worry about that because there is no sadness in heaven. You won’t even feel bad about your children who are in hell. It’s as if there is a one-way mirror between heaven and hell. Those in heaven see the joy of those in heaven but those in heaven will not see the suffering of those in hell (THE LIFE TO COME by Rev. Dr. William Girao). My issue with Catholic soteriology is that they have no assurance of salvation. Check out these links:

bible-truth.org/assuran2.html

bible-truth.org/Assuran1.htm

***where did you hear that?

i am reasonably assured of my salvation because i keep the Commandments and try to do all that Jesus said. This does not mean i believe in salvation thro works - i don’t. We are saved by one thing and that is Jesus… Even so, Jesus clearly said that if we love Him we will keep his commandments***

 

[distracted]

***there are a lot of antiCatholic books & articles “out there”…

Martin Luther started attacking the Church in the 1500s and the attacks have not ceased, only gotten more outrageous…

the further you get from something, the less well you see it***