Yes indeed, Paul’s teaching that by works of law shall no flesh be justified contradicts James, unless one understands that James is talking about the evidence of faith. See my post #112 above to Sean Boyle for a link to my understanding and position on James 2.
The key to understanding Paul has nothing to do with indebtedness of God to the creature, but with the futility of salvation by works. Read Galatians as well.
Michael, you are espousing what Paul was combating; namely, that you contribute to your justification by your works (cf Rom 3:20). Furthermore, if you look more closely at the Romans 4 passage that you cited, you will find the terminology to be forensic, rather than actual; it is righteousness “reckoned,” not righteousness “infused by grace;” that is Catholic teaching, not Paul’s teaching.
And in your church that includes unwritten tradition as binding doctrine; a position with which I strongly disagree.
I remind you that a “heresy” is something that is contra God’s word; Catholics are too loose with the use of that word. I do not deny the requirement of holiness, and am well aware of the requirements of salvation; nothing I believe, and nothing that I say is heretical in the true definition of that word.
Paul says in Romans 8 that no created thing will be ABLE to separate us from God; are you a created thing, Michael?
In your 1 Cor 6 support of your statement, you forgot v11, namely, such were some of you,
Really?
Yes, but nowhere in the text does He say they became “sheep” BY those acts of charity. And nowhere in the text does He say they did them “unto Him” for the sake of being saved, for the purpose of contributing to cost of their redemption. IOW, they were not working for their salvation.
Paul covers both bases when he didactically explains divine justification in the fourth chapter of Romans (you being a “Roman” C. should take special note of this Apostolic teaching addressed to the church of Rome centuries before the council of Trent).“But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned to him as righteousness” (Rom. 4:5).Now I say Paul covers “both bases” because he goes on to cite two men who were reckoned righteous by God based strictly on their faith: Abraham, who was not under the Law, and David who was. Paul does not restrict his teaching to, as you claim, “works of the Law,” but any kind of works at all. The divine principle of faith-justification applied to Abraham who lived 430 years before the Law came into existence, and to David who was bound to the Law, being an Israelite born under it. But God reckoned both men righteous strictly by their faith alone.Rom 4:16 "For this reason {it is} by faith, in order that {it may be} in accordance with grace, so that the promise will be guaranteed to all the descendants, not only to those who are of the Law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all,"James shows that the faith by which God reckoned Abraham righteous continued to grow and was later demonstrated (Ja. 2:18, “show me”) when some 20 years later he was willing, by faith, to offer up his only son to sacrifice (Heb. 11:17-19). That faith by which God reckoned him righteous, some 20 years earlier, grew (i.e., perfected, Ja. 2:22) and was demonstrated by an overt act. But long before the birth of Isaac, long before his willingness to offer him up, Abraham believed in the Lord; and at that moment of time He (the Lord) reckoned it (his faith) to him as righteousness (Gen. 15:6).
Not to throw cold water on it, but I believe serious consideration results in no “happy medium.” Either the burden was put on Christ and it’s all of grace, or the burden remains on us and it’s all of works. Scripture truly does reveal the former.Rom 3:22-24 "…even {the} righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction; for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus;As for the JD, it was the Lutherans that moved, not the Catholics.
I don’t agree, nor does Paul. You are saved totally apart from works, but you will be rewarded for them. Salvation itself is strictly a free gift based wholly on God’s grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus.
James must be understood in the proper context, understood by two word: “show me…”
You’re right that the fall was fatal. Stick with that thought and build from there.Rom 3:10-18 "…as it is written, "THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NOT EVEN ONE; THERE IS NONE WHO UNDERSTANDS, THERE IS NONE WHO SEEKS FOR GOD; ALL HAVE TURNED ASIDE, TOGETHER THEY HAVE BECOME USELESS; THERE IS NONE WHO DOES GOOD, THERE IS NOT EVEN ONE. THEIR THROAT IS AN OPEN GRAVE, WITH THEIR TONGUES THEY KEEP DECEIVING, THE POISON OF ASPS IS UNDER THEIR LIPS; WHOSE MOUTH IS FULL OF CURSING AND BITTERNESS; THEIR FEET ARE SWIFT TO SHED BLOOD, DESTRUCTION AND MISERY ARE IN THEIR PATHS, AND THE PATH OF PEACE THEY HAVE NOT KNOWN. THERE IS NO FEAR OF GOD BEFORE THEIR EYES."Now what is this about a remnant of love, dignity, and innate human worth? Forget James, it’s this divine testimony that must not be theologically glossed over.
Really?!?
Sin, to one who loves God, is nothing other than an arrow from the enemy in battle. The true Christian is a warrior fighting his way through the regiments of the unseen enemy to his heavenly homeland. According to the word of the Apostle, our homeland is in heaven; and about the warrior he says: 'our warfare is not against flesh and blood, but against principalities and powers.'
Sandusky,
James meant exactly what he said. The difference we have is the understanding of what James said.
I think that you misunderstood my answer, or I misunderstood your question.
Just curious, since Jesus, at that time, says these words to all the “sheep” who are about to enter the kingdom as their reward, who, literally, was it that these “sheep” fed and gave drink? Obviously it wasn’t the “sheep” themselves. So who are “these brothers of mine” Jesus was referring to?
Interesting. So those on His left, identified as “goats” gave no food and no drink. In other words, demonstrated no acts of faith, yet you claim they had faith.
So when Paul says, “For by grace you have been saved through faith,” he just means “faith” in God? Faith in the fact that God exists? If that’s all that faith means, then how is it, based on your definition and Paul’s statement, Satan is not saved and those “goats” don’t enter the kingdom?
So sin is not personal for the one who loves God?
Yet according to Catholic dogma, some of those “arrows” are fatal to the “true Christian warrior.” And if hit he never reaches the “homeland.” But if these “arrows” derive from an outside source (non personal), how is it (according to Catholic dogma) that the warrior is held guilty and excluded from the “homeland” which is his?
Also what about the words of Christ in Matt 19: 16-30.
Now you put words in the mouth of St Seraphim.
It seems that you are indicating that the Catholic Church teaches that we are not forgiven of our sins.
That reminds me. Satan did have “life” but lost it. Know were does scripture say he never had life to begin with because he lost it, as the OSAS crowd believes.
Interesting point, apophasis.
Seraphim’s is a great and pithy quote, but a greater theological error.
I don’t memorize words. I take them into my heart. I am careful to read Scriptures and the Church Fathers (St Sreaphim is an Orthodox Saint).