Split from "A question for some Protestants who try to proselytize Catholics": Are Catholic priests "Forbidden to Marry?"

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Dokimas said:
I think you missed a very important point too. It can be espressed in a question. Does Jesus only call men to the priesthood as a celebate? Be careful.
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In the form of Catholic priests, yes. It’s an easy answer considering that our faith asks our priests/leaders to be as Christ like as possible. Because of being as Christ like as possible, they don’t marry. Christ wasn’t married, therefore we believe that it is more Christ like to not be. Let alone the passages from Paul that have been posted here already about the subject.

You can answer my post with that question all you choose. You believe in individual interpretation of the Bible, or at least a very very close theory on interpretation, it’s not hard to tell once you have been around these forums a good bit. Therefore, it’s our interpretation, and our tradition that our priests be as Christ like as possible.

Hope you can live with it. 😉
 
Dokimas said:
I believe I answered it. I said many evangelical churches use Paul’s writings to Timothy and Titus.

That’s the best I’ll do, understanding you are most likely trying to ‘paint me into a corner’.
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Absolutely I am trying to paint you into a corner. 😃 You continually bob and weave and only provide either your opinion, irrelevant answers, or just ignore. You keep requiring of us to provide definitive proof from Sacred Scripture that a Priest is to be celibate. We have, many times over, in great detail, with Sacred Scripture and the teachings of the Church, provided you the truth regarding the Priesthood.

So in return I am ascribing the same conditions for you. Show me in Sacred Scripture where a pastor or minister is to have a degree in divinity. I want to know chapter and verse, nothing else. I also want to know what are the requirements to be a pastor in your church. I have asked this also of you and you have not answered. Why?

This is just like every other anti-Catholic argument, you and those like you who perpetuate anti-Catholic falsehoods. You stubbornly hold to these anti-Catholic falsehoods even after being provided the truth because heaven forbid that you would have to say “OMG :eek: the Catholic Church is right on something”

I really think it is time that you step up to the plate here and see the truth for what it is and not what you think it is. Let go of those old anti-Catholic falsehoods, its dark in there, step into the light for once.
 
Dokimas said:
You are correct: I’ve been shown over and over what you and the CC (you and others say the CC teach the things in question). Just saying things over and over and over again doesn’t make them God’s truth. If it did, then we’d be at a standstill because I’ve shown you over and over and over why I think you are incorrect showing you my reasoning from the Bible.
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We are certainly in agreement on this point. However, what we are seeking from you, Doki, is something along the lines of “I understand your point”, or perhaps the ability to re-iterate the point. Until you are able to to this, we will probably sound “repetetive”, because it seems that you still did not “get” our point. No one here expects you to AGREE with what the Catholic Church received from the Apostles. But the purpose of discussion is to clarify different POINTS OF VIEW. Your responses indicate that you either cannot, or will not, see our point of view.
Dokimas said:
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The 'until' discussion is a prime example.  I acknowledged your verses and your point but you have not yet agreed with my verses (at least not that I've seen.  If you have, I apologize and would ask you to repost you response of point me to where you responded).
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If you EVER acknowledged that there are uses of the word “until” in scripture that make no implications about activity afterward, I missed it.

We can agree to disagree on the fact that Mary had no other children, and that the Apostles taught this. However, if you were just abe to ACKNOWLDEGE the point with which you do not agree, then we would see that our job had been done. Until that happens, we will probably continue to be repetitive.
Dokimas said:
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BTW, what makes you think pray has not gone into the understandings I have.  (The correct ones :D)
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It is difficult to understand the intractible refusal to see things from a different point of view. One does not have to EMBRACE the other point of view in order to articulate that one understands it.
 
Dokimas said:
I’M NOT against celibacy. In this discussion, IF I’m against anything, I’m against forcing someone to be celebate in order to serve God as a priest.

I’m bashing nothing nor attacking anything. I’m stating my opinion and trying to back it up with Scripture.
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Yes, Doki, you are bashing and attacking. Because, you see, we are all in agreement that it is unscriptural and ungodly to “force” people into spiritual disciplines and vocations. Therefore, when you accuse the Catholic Church of doing these things, we experience it as an attack and disparagement.

You cannot seem to appreciate our point that it is impossible to “force someone to be celibate to serve God”. We understand that making oneself a eunuch for the Kingdom is a gift from God that cannot be "forced’ upon anyone. As Jesus taught, it should be RECEIVED by those to whom the gift is given, but no one can “force” God to give a gift to anyone, and no one can “force” anyone to accept the gift. That is why we find your language a disparaging attack upon our faith, and why it seems that you do not understand our point of view.

I also missed your answer, if you gave it, to my question “Do you think a person has a right to be a priest if he chooses”?
 
Dokimas said:
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If you could remind me what thread we were on, I'd love to try to find it.
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Click on “profile” above in the menu bar, and check “subscribed threads”. This link will show you all the threads on which you have posted.
 
PRmerger said:
Why, I think you’re right, Tantum! Why should Protestants force people who have freely chosen to be single into marriage? Isn’t that contrary to Scripture?

If Protestants have their way: a man who chooses the priesthood is going to be forced to marry! :eek:
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Especially if he wants to become a bishop, since a bishop “must be the husband of one wife” - he also has to have a pack of kids without any problems. 😃
 
Bottomline is simple:

God CALLS certain men to be priest and in the Latin Rite,celibacy is a discipline,not forced upon any man.

If the man cannot accept it,then he simply will leave the seminary and that is the end of it,plain and simple. The church neither begs or forces one to be celibate,it is a freely chosen decision and committment.

As I stated before,no one forced me to join the U.S. Air Force,after being told and shown the type of life I must abide to and live. At boot camp,if one could nott accept the tough and rigorous requirments,then the door was there and they would said good-bye.

No one is FORCED into being celibate. It is a FREE-WILL decision one accepts.

END OF STORY! :coolinoff:
 
PRmerger said:
We’re not saying it’s wrong to get a degree prior to entering the ministry.

We’re just saying that you are being hypocritical. You require something for your ministers–getting a degree–which is not commanded in the Scriptures…

Yet you criticize Catholics for “requiring” something for its priests that’s not commanded in the Scriptures.

You ought to apply your own standards to your own ministers.
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Hypocritical: Paul tells us to study to show yourself approved, a workman that needs not be ashamed, rightly dividing the Word of God.

Paul taught that bishops, if married, should have one wife. He also taught that if a man can’t be celibate, then he should marry.

Getting a degree does not contradict Bible doctrine. Forcing celibacy does.
 
Teneas said:
In the form of Catholic priests, yes. It’s an easy answer considering that our faith asks our priests/leaders to be as Christ like as possible. Because of being as Christ like as possible, they don’t marry. Christ wasn’t married, therefore we believe that it is more Christ like to not be. Let alone the passages from Paul that have been posted here already about the subject.

You can answer my post with that question all you choose. You believe in individual interpretation of the Bible, or at least a very very close theory on interpretation, it’s not hard to tell once you have been around these forums a good bit. Therefore, it’s our interpretation, and our tradition that our priests be as Christ like as possible.

Hope you can live with it. 😉
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I didn’t ask about the CC, I asked about Jesus.

Jesus not being married isn’t the issue. What He taught is the issue.

I don’t believe the Bible is open to private interpretation, especially mine, but also a church isn’t permited to privately interpret either.
 
wmscott said:
So in return I am ascribing the same conditions for you. Show me in Sacred Scripture where a pastor or minister is to have a degree in divinity. I want to know chapter and verse, nothing else. I also want to know what are the requirements to be a pastor in your church. I have asked this also of you and you have not answered. Why?
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I can’t find any Scripture that speaks of a gedgree in divinity. I can find verses for bishops and pastors being married.

Is this a game to you? O yes, you said you’re trying to corner me. Good try.
 
Dokimas said:
Getting a degree does not contradict Bible doctrine.
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Hypothetically, how would you respond to someone telling you that it’s perfectly fine for them to preach whatever they feel moved to preach in your church, even though they can just barely read or write, and certainly have no theology degrees of any kind - what would your response be, when they say, “Jesus never required the fishermen Peter and Andrew, James and John, to go to school before preaching the Gospel. Therefore, I don’t have to go to school, either. You’re just being a Pharisee.”

Wouldn’t you simply tell them, “We reserve the privilege of selecting our preachers to the Board of Deacons, and they have made it plain that they will select only from among male adult persons who have theology degrees from this short list of divinity schools. We’re sorry that according to the existing criteria, you will not be selected.”

Having qualifications excludes a small number of people who might otherwise be worthy - but it also excludes those who shouldn’t be trying to apply for the position in the first place, and shouldn’t be given any kind of false hope about the situation.
 
guanophore said:
We are certainly in agreement on this point. However, what we are seeking from you, Doki, is something along the lines of “I understand your point”, or perhaps the ability to re-iterate the point. Until you are able to to this, we will probably sound “repetetive”, because it seems that you still did not “get” our point. No one here expects you to AGREE with what the Catholic Church received from the Apostles. But the purpose of discussion is to clarify different POINTS OF VIEW. Your responses indicate that you either cannot, or will not, see our point of view.

If you EVER acknowledged that there are uses of the word “until” in scripture that make no implications about activity afterward, I missed it.

We can agree to disagree on the fact that Mary had no other children, and that the Apostles taught this. However, if you were just abe to ACKNOWLDEGE the point with which you do not agree, then we would see that our job had been done. Until that happens, we will probably continue to be repetitive.

It is difficult to understand the intractible refusal to see things from a different point of view. One does not have to EMBRACE the other point of view in order to articulate that one understands it.
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I believe, for the most part, I understand your point of view on many of these issues we discuss. I just disagree with your conclusions on the specific topics we’ve disagreed on.

The 1st century apostles did not teach anything about Mary. I suppose I could have missed something in the NT about her. If so, please show me.

I have acknowledged that ‘until’ sometimes has no change after it. I also have acknoledged that context helps to decide whether or not change is probable.

Have you acknowledged that it is reasonable to understand Mary and Joseph concumated their marriage according to Matthew 1:25?
 
guanophore said:
Yes, Doki, you are bashing and attacking. Because, you see, we are all in agreement that it is unscriptural and ungodly to “force” people into spiritual disciplines and vocations. Therefore, when you accuse the Catholic Church of doing these things, we experience it as an attack and disparagement.

You cannot seem to appreciate our point that it is impossible to “force someone to be celibate to serve God”. We understand that making oneself a eunuch for the Kingdom is a gift from God that cannot be "forced’ upon anyone. As Jesus taught, it should be RECEIVED by those to whom the gift is given, but no one can “force” God to give a gift to anyone, and no one can “force” anyone to accept the gift. That is why we find your language a disparaging attack upon our faith, and why it seems that you do not understand our point of view.

I also missed your answer, if you gave it, to my question “Do you think a person has a right to be a priest if he chooses”?
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I’m not saying you ‘force someone to be celibate to serve God’. I’m saying that you force celibacy on men that believe they are called to be priests. The one calling them, God, does not require celibacy.

Not only do I think a man has the right to be a priest is he believes God’s calling him to it, he also should have the right to be married if celibacy is not possible. It’s very hard for a man to have a celibate mind. Jesus calls mental sins equal with the physical ones.
 
Dokimas said:
I’m not saying you ‘force someone to be celibate to serve God’. I’m saying that you force celibacy on men that believe they are called to be priests. The one calling them, God, does not require celibacy.

Not only do I think a man has the right to be a priest is he believes God’s calling him to it, he also should have the right to be married if celibacy is not possible. It’s very hard for a man to have a celibate mind. Jesus calls mental sins equal with the physical ones.
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:ouch: :dts: There you again: I’m saying that you **force celibacy **on men.

No,no,no,no,no Dokimas. Dokimas, has it ever crossed your mind that some of those men who are called by God to be priest,already could be CELIBATE? Hhmmmm?

Who forced them to be celibate before entering the priesthood? Mom? Dad? Grandma?
 
PRmerger said:
Really, Dokimas. You just posted this little bit of sarcasm, and then you’re going to point fingers? 🤷
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It is called pride. Someone simply rather turn the blind eye,then accept they have been misinformed. You see it is to much of a hassle for some to say: I must admit,I have been incorrect,I stand corrected.

Much easier to provide sarcasm,then swallow pride.
 
Nicea325 said:
:ouch: :dts: There you again: I’m saying that you **force celibacy **on men.

No,no,no,no,no Dokimas. Dokimas, has it ever crossed your mind that some of those men who are called by God to be priest,already could be CELIBATE? Hhmmmm?

Who forced them to be celibate before entering the priesthood? Mom? Dad? Grandma?
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You’re getting so good at this; you got me again. Wow. Don’t waste time on such easy prey as me. Move on to harder prey. I’m way below your intelligence.
 
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