SPLIT: From Fatima...Images & the Salvation of Catholics

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Eden said:
Can I ask why you want to know specifics? I would think the statistics of the Diocese have more authority than my unnecessary testimony as to where I live and the specific parish I belong to. I don’t think it’s appropriate to give out identifying information online.
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Fully agreed. See the Forum Rules and Banned Topics Policy.
 
LilyM said:
(Edited by Moderator. 1st Peter 3:14-17)

No Christian, Catholic or not, who is capable of rubbing two brain cells together ever prays TO any statue or image - not of Christ himself, and most certainly not of Mary or any saint.

As Manny has so ably pointed out, statues and the like are visual aids which we use in prayer, much as most any Christian might use a cross, a crucifix, or a picture or statue of Christ.

**LilyM

I guess visual aids in prayer is not necessary, althought i aim Catholic but i believe Mary/Saints are all omnipresent can hear your prayer, you don’t need aids to faciliate your prayer.**

In fact they are exactly like the carved cherubim and other representations that God himself ordered made to decorate the temple in Jerusalem - aids to prayer and contemplation.
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newbie1234 said:
Interesting thread!
I am a former Catholic. I’ve said 1000’s of Hail Mary’s over the years.
It’s only now that I realize how I take away from the glory of God and Christ’s sacrifice on the cross by worshipping Mary.It has come to my attention that the Church now calls Mary coredeemer and comediator. I think this statement is blasphemous.
I think the apparitions all over the world are the work of the enemy. Salvation comes through Jesus Christ and him alone. (Edited by Moderator)
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**Probably you should ask instead of praying 1000 times of Hail Mary, why it can’t be 1000 times Hail Jesus.
So to divide the time of prayer, if a Catholic spend 80% praying to Jesus and 20% to intercede with the Saint/Mary, then why can’t they put 100% just to pray to Jesus. But of course that is Catholic practise, which is the only different with Christian, coz we put 100% praying directly to Jesus and we do respect Mary but just don’t intercede to her. Coz i don’t see it as a Sin if we don’t intercede via Mary/Saints **
 
newbie1234 said:
Morning manny
If my pastor takes bread and wine and prays over it saying the same prayer that the priest says using the same biblical passages would my communion be the same as yours since the power of transubstantiation comes from Jesus. Or does this power only lie in a catholic priest?
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Only validly ordained priests (by bishops who received their ordination from bishops who received…all the way back to one of the Apostles) can minister in the name of the whole Church a valid Eucharistic sacrifice.

This comes from scripture and its interpretation in the early Church (Tradition).

There is NOTHING in the Bible which gives ANYONE authority to do anything. It is not a HOW TO book for Christians.

If you think that is a rash statement, then consider all the goofiness and idiocy associated with imitating Catholic (that is, Christian) rituals and customs passed on from the Apostles and Jesus through the centuries.

Examples: how Hollywood shows Catholicism and its religious as having “magic” knowledge with latinate phrases and ancient Aramaic symbols (‘Ancient of Days’ immediately comes to mind). Look at Jim Jones, Charles Taze Russell, Joseph Smith, EG White, David Koresh, the Aryan movement based upon the KJV to justify its racist, evil agenda.

Everyone thinks they know what the Bible really means and what Jesus really says about (fill in the blank).

And the justification? The Holy Spirit.

Well, Newbie, who told you the Truth???
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newbie1234 said:
Please to all the people copying apologetic sites. There is no way I will have time to read them all.
If you want to teach me something please find scriptural references that support your position and I will look at them.

Copying a complete page from some apologist website is a waste of time.
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Yeah, all that scripture Manny posted clearly doesn’t apply:rolleyes:
 
newbie1234 said:
The woman in rev 12:1 is the nation of israel common knowledge
Who said mary was the greatest saint of all?
Mary brought jesus into the world.
Jesus brought eternal life.
Rev 2:10 doesn’t even mention Mary?
Do you think I won’t read your post and refute this BS your peddling
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The verses say that the saints in heaven are given a crown. If Mary is in heaven, then she, along with the other saints, was given a crown.
 
I was going to post, but I realized that the quantity of posts since just yesterday, that there really is no attempt at all to read scripture or explanations of Scripture.

Unfortunately, I also realize that I helped contribute to this mess of a thread with so many subjects.

If I actually saw any attempt to read scripture and refute the Catholic interpretation I might try to continue on. Unfortunately, I see none of that.

I pray that all that continue will get back on track and focus on the title of the thread and make new threads for alternate subjects. In this manner, maybe some scriptural truth will actually be shown and not avoided as has been the case so far.

I apologize for my contribution to this messy thread. I pray that all that would continue with this thread, focus and the Catholic here stop acting like a bunch of ADD kids who can’t stay focused:p

We all know that one subject threads really work much better:thumbsup: Sometimes it is hard to stay focused with someone who has such complete and utter misunderstandings of the Catholic Church but still…

May God Bless all with wisdom and clarity who choose to continue.
Maria
 
newbie1234 said:
That egypt pic is incredible. I don’t think it is a hoax. but there are apparitions like that all over the place. I don’t think any of them are hoaxes(Well maybe a few are). If you look at medjugorge, which is not approved, what is going on there?. There have been thousands of miracles there.If the church doesn’t approve them and say it’s from God then what is causing it. Another problem is that no one apparition contradicts another one and the all ask for prayer in one form or another. That’s why I lump them all together. They are all very similar.
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The Church, when it approves an apparition, simply says that there is nothing in the apparition that conflicts the Church’s teachings. A Catholic is free to believe, or not believe in the apparitions.
As for the apparitions not contradicting one another, what’s bad about that? Truth never contradicts truth.
 
newbie1234 said:
Morning manny
If my pastor takes bread and wine and prays over it saying the same prayer that the priest says using the same biblical passages would my communion be the same as yours since the power of transubstantiation comes from Jesus. Or does this power only lie in a catholic priest?
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Only the Catholic Church and the Orthodox Church because they have Apostolic Successions, and have valid priesthood.
 
JonathanKinsman said:
Only validly ordained priests (by bishops who received their ordination from bishops who received…all the way back to one of the Apostles) can minister in the name of the whole Church a valid Eucharistic sacrifice.

This comes from scripture and its interpretation in the early Church (Tradition).

There is NOTHING in the Bible which gives ANYONE authority to do anything. It is not a HOW TO book for Christians.

If you think that is a rash statement, then consider all the goofiness and idiocy associated with imitating Catholic (that is, Christian) rituals and customs passed on from the Apostles and Jesus through the centuries.

Examples: how Hollywood shows Catholicism and its religious as having “magic” knowledge with latinate phrases and ancient Aramaic symbols (‘Ancient of Days’ immediately comes to mind). Look at Jim Jones, Charles Taze Russell, Joseph Smith, EG White, David Koresh, the Aryan movement based upon the KJV to justify its racist, evil agenda.

Everyone thinks they know what the Bible really means and what Jesus really says about (fill in the blank).

And the justification? The Holy Spirit.

Well, Newbie, who told you the Truth???
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I get my truth from reading the bible.
Could you point to any scriptures in the bible that give the eucharist power only to Catholic priests?
Also any biblical reference to when exactly and by which ritual the priest gets this trans substantiation power?
Please refrain from telling me what early church fathers have written or any such sources. Let’s rely solely on the Word of God today.
 
lak611 said:
Check Matthew 2:13-15. Mary, Joseph and Jesus fled to Egypt.
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Mary and joseph fled to egypt when Jesus was born around 1ad . REvelation was written in 95ad or there about. So are you saying that rev12:1 was speaking of something that already happened while the rest of the book is prophetic in nature?
 
newbie1234 said:
I get my truth from reading the bible.
Could you point to any scriptures in the bible that give the eucharist power only to Catholic priests?
Also any biblical reference to when exactly and by which ritual the priest gets this trans substantiation power?
Please refrain from telling me what early church fathers have written or any such sources. Let’s rely solely on the Word of God today.
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Jesus gave this authority to the Apostles at the last supper and they in turn laid hands on others.

You must be familiar with all the verses in Paul’s letters telling Timothy and Titus to appoint leaders in each of the Churches…?
 
valient_Lucy said:
The Church, when it approves an apparition, simply says that there is nothing in the apparition that conflicts the Church’s teachings. A Catholic is free to believe, or not believe in the apparitions.
As for the apparitions not contradicting one another, what’s bad about that? Truth never contradicts truth.
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The fact that the apparations don’t contracdict each other is an indication that they are all from the same source. That being the case if we look at all the things that all the aparitions said, we would see that some of the things are getting away from honoring Jesus as the only source of salvation, such as the apparition being co-redemptrix. That is the area of concern.
 
newbie1234 said:
Mary and joseph fled to egypt when Jesus was born around 1ad . REvelation was written in 95ad or there about. So are you saying that rev12:1 was speaking of something that already happened while the rest of the book is prophetic in nature?
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Yes. Every book of prophecy also refers to past and present events, not just future events.
 
Randy_Carson said:
Jesus gave this authority to the Apostles at the last supper and they in turn laid hands on others.

You must be familiar with all the verses in Paul’s letters telling Timothy and Titus to appoint leaders in each of the Churches…?
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Yes but where does it talk about the ritual to give the priest the power, or is that tradition? Jesus certainly didn’t say I needed a catholic priest to say a special blessing before the bread became His body.
 
newbie1234 said:
I get my truth from reading the bible.
Could you point to any scriptures in the bible that give the eucharist power only to Catholic priests?
Also any biblical reference to when exactly and by which ritual the priest gets this trans substantiation power?
Please refrain from telling me what early church fathers have written or any such sources. Let’s rely solely on the Word of God today.
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Well, look in Acts and in the Gospels. Check out the Pauline and Petrine letters. Those who were given the power to loose and to bind were those who passed it down through the ages to current bishops.

You may not like that, but it is historically and scripturally true.

"Let’s rely solely on the Word of God today."

Great, Newbie, but I can’t find any biblical proof that gives your pastor the power to change the bread and wine into the body and blood of Christ.

I looked everywhere and I can’t find where sola scriptura is mentioned either! Help me.
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lak611 said:
Yes. Every book of prophecy also refers to past and present events, not just future events.
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That is incorrect. Prophetic books have what is called dual fulfillment. Which means the prophecy will be fulfilled twice both in the future. Not once in the past and once in the future.
 
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