SPLIT: From Fatima...Images & the Salvation of Catholics

[Randy_Carson]

One of the criminals who hung there hurled insults at him: “Aren’t you the Christ? Save yourself and us!” But the other criminal rebuked him.

The penitent criminal rebuked the other.

“Don’t you fear God,” he said, "since you are under the same sentence?

He preached the need to “fear God”.

41We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve.

He acknowledged his guilt and accepted the justice of the punishment. This is true contrition.

But this man has done nothing wrong."

He recognized the innocence of Jesus.

Then he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.”

He “called upon the name of the Lord”.

Jesus answered him, “I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise.”

Jesus accepts his repentence and gives him the ultimate absolution.

+++

Now, have some asked what “work” Jesus did upon the cross? Do you mean OTHER than acting as both priest and victim in that salvific sacrifice?

 

[newbie1234]

A doctrine of men that is not scriptural.
Pax Domini sit semper vobiscum.

Aren’t I giving the scriptures.
how can it be non scriptural?

 

[Mannyfit75]

So the criminal’s profession of faith got him into paradise. And to get to heaven he probably had to do some works after he died? Is that your position?

Jesus must die and be raised from the dead to open the gates of heaven for us sinners.

When thief died, the criminal went to Limbo, a place that is neither heaven or hell. It is here the prophets of the old covenant died.

Jesus preached to the dead in Limbo and told them to return to their bodies. That is why in Luke, we see in Jerusalem the dead walking amongst the living. Matthew Chapter 27 verse 51-52, And behold, the curtain of the temple was torn in two, from top to bottom; and the earth shook, and the rocks were split; the tombs also were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised.

After his resurrection, the gates of heaven was now made open for us. Jesus left us the Church, who ask us to “repent and be baptized everyone of you.”

 

[newbie1234]

Another wrong assumption. I am very flexible and willing to follow the Holy Spirit where very He leads. Again, this is why I am a Catholic.Yet this cannot be. Both cannot be truth. One of us is wrong. None of this is subjective or relative. This is why I challenge you to "Carefully study to present thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth."But then what happens to the prayer of Our Lord.

John 17:11 And now I am not in the world, and these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep them in thy name whom thou has given me; that they may be one, as we also are.
I cannot be one with any group who deifies Mary.
I witness to hundreds of people each week of all denominations.
I have to be well versed in what each of them believes. I am still learning There are a lot of Mormons here also. I am also studying that cult.

 

[newbie1234]

One of the criminals who hung there hurled insults at him: “Aren’t you the Christ? Save yourself and us!” But the other criminal rebuked him.

The penitent criminal rebuked the other.

“Don’t you fear God,” he said, "since you are under the same sentence?

He preached the need to “fear God”.

41We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve.

He acknowledged his guilt and accepted the justice of the punishment. This is true contrition.

But this man has done nothing wrong."

He recognized the innocence of Jesus.

Then he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.”

He “called upon the name of the Lord”.

Jesus answered him, “I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise.”

Jesus accepts his repentence and gives him the ultimate absolution.

+++

Now, have some asked what “work” Jesus did upon the cross? Do you mean OTHER than acting as both priest and victim in that salvific sacrifice?

I didn’t ask what work Jesus did on the cross.
I asked what work THE CRIMINAL did to receive salvation?

 

[newbie1234]

Jesus must die and be raised from the dead to open the gates of heaven for us sinners.

When thief died, the criminal went to Limbo, a place that is neither heaven or hell. It is here the prophets of the old covenant died.

Jesus preached to the dead in Limbo and told them to return to their bodies. That is why in Luke, we see in Jerusalem the dead walking amongst the living. Matthew Chapter 27 verse 51-52, And behold, the curtain of the temple was torn in two, from top to bottom; and the earth shook, and the rocks were split; the tombs also were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised.

After his resurrection, the gates of heaven was now made open for us. Jesus left us the Church, who ask us to “repent and be baptized everyone of you.”

So this limbo is what Jesus meant when he said to the criminal" Today you will be with me in paradise"
He meant Limbo?

 

[Church_Militant]

I don’t know what you mean
Could you explain this statement.

Your proof text is out of context both with the rest of teh passage you cited as well as the entire context of teh New Testament Newb.

 

[newbie1234]

Your proof text is out of context both with the rest of teh passage you cited as well as the entire context of teh New Testament Newb.

Oh that clears it up Thanks

 

[Church_Militant]

Aren’t I giving the scriptures.
how can it be non scriptural?

No, actually you are giving your interpretations of selected proof texts while ignoring others. They are fallible and they are wrong since they are not supported by the rest of the New Testament or the historically verifiable teachingof teh early church.

 

[nkelly]

Interesting thread!
I am a former Catholic. I’ve said 1000’s of Hail Mary’s over the years.
It’s only now that I realize how I take away from the glory of God and Christ’s sacrifice on the cross by worshipping Mary.It has come to my attention that the Church now calls Mary coredeemer and comediator. I think this statement is blasphemous.
I think the apparitions all over the world are the work of the enemy. Salvation comes through Jesus Christ and him alone.

Newbie, I’m not going to answer your questions directly because they’re been answered by others but I would ask you to consider this. Jesus Christ established a Church in the year 33 A.D. and that Church has continued through apostolic succession to the present day.

**Matthew 16:18 And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
**

Does it make sense to you that there was no true Church in existence until the protestant reformation or whenever your church was founded? No, it doesn’t! The catholic Church is the same Church established by Jesus Christ. And now your telling us that your man-made church is greater that the Church established by Jesus Christ!!!???

I don’t mean to be uncharitable, but your comments are naive and frankly insulting. All of the accusations you’ve made can be easily refuted. All you’re doing is showing how ignorant you are of the catholic faith.

God bless,
Noel.

 

[newbie1234]

No, actually you are giving your interpretations of selected proof texts while ignoring others. They are fallible and they are wrong since they are not supported by the rest of the New Testament or the historically verifiable teachingof teh early church.

So my teachers do not have to be in line with what is inthe bible?
And I am not authorized to read the bible and test all things?

 

[Randy_Carson]

So my teachers do not have to be in line with what is inthe bible?
And I am not authorized to read the bible and test all things?

To answer the question, I will ask a question. Does your faith community baptize infants or not?

 

[Church_Militant]

I cannot be one with any group who deifies Mary.

This is an outright misreprentation. You cannot provide even a single authentic authoratative Catholic document that even remotely implies that the Catholic Church has ever even considered a diefication of the Blessed Virgin. This is anti-Catholic propaganda at its worst.

I defy you to provide evidence of this and call for you to retract that allegation if you cannot do so.

In spite of your asserted background, which no one can verify, you do not have even a remote comprehension of the Catholic faith. Or hadn’t you noticed that from the metric half ton of stuff that we have refuted so far?

Get the facts. Decide for yourself.

 

[newbie1234]

To answer the question, I will ask a question. Does your faith community baptize infants or not?

No. We do not baptize infants.
A baby cannot understand the issue of sin and why he or she needs salvation.

 

[Mannyfit75]

So this limbo is what Jesus meant when he said to the criminal" Today you will be with me in paradise"
He meant Limbo?

The soul of our Lord then wended its way to the right, towards that part which really constituted Limbo; and there he met the soul of the good thief which angels were carrying to Abraham’s bosom, as also that of the bad thief being dragged by demons into Hell. Our Lord addressed a few words to both, and
then entered Abraham’s bosom, accompanied by numerous angels and holy souls, and also by those demons who had been chained and expelled from the compartment

. -Dolorous Passion of Our Lord Jesus Christ.

He went to Limbo first and then to heaven. The account is from the Dolorous Passion of Our Lord by St. Anne Catherine Emmerich, a Christian mystic.

 

[Church_Militant]

So my teachers do not have to be in line with what is inthe bible?

Don’t try to put words in my mouth Newb, that’s not what I said. I am saying that for whatever reason, they have misled you and you bought into it all just because they showed you some Bible verses. Listen to this Bible study. (If you have the courage of your conviction.)

And I am not authorized to read the bible and test all things?

Actually you are encouraged to do so, but without reference to the 2,000 years of Christian teaching you are still basing your beliefs on errors that have only been in existence for some 500 years at best and also leaning on your own understanding. What does Proverbs 3:5 say about that?
**
Get the facts. Decide for yourself.**

 

[newbie1234]

This is an outright misreprentation. You cannot provide even a single authentic authoratative Catholic document that even remotely implies that the Catholic Church has ever even considered a diefication of the Blessed Virgin. This is anti-Catholic propaganda at its worst.

I defy you to provide evidence of this and call for you to retract that allegation if you cannot do so.

In spite of your asserted background, which no one can verify, you do not have even a remote comprehension of the Catholic faith. Or hadn’t you noticed that from the metric half ton of stuff that we have refuted so far?

Get the facts. Decide for yourself.

Ok I cannot produce a document.
But wasn’t there a petition among marion followers to make mary coredemptrix. And wasn’t it signed by thousands of people. So if the church received this petition wouldn’t they have at least considered it?
I may be wrong if so I retract the statement.
You have made it clear.
You don’t pray to statues.
You don’t worship Mary.
You don’t worship saints.
Kneeling before a statue is not worship.
Saying the Rosary is an honor to God.
I understand.

 

[newbie1234]

. -Dolorous Passion of Our Lord Jesus Christ.

He went to Limbo first and then to heaven. The account is from the Dolorous Passion of Our Lord by St. Anne Catherine Emmerich, a Christian mystic.

I am sorry. Could you tell me where I could find this in my bible?
Are mystics viable sorces of God’s Revelation?

 

[Eschato]

I can only give testimony to what happened to me. I was Catholic for 22 years. To me the faith was dead. It was just a bunch of meaningless ceremony. My mind wandered in church. I dreaded going. It wasn’t until I accepted Jesus as my Lord and Savior and repented on my sins that my faith came alive. Now it’s totally different. I wish everyone could experience the love I feel. Now I can’t wait to go to church!

When I was 7 a protestant youth minister told me that my fascination with “…this is my body, this is my blood…” was unfounded, because “Jesus didn’t really mean that!”
I became grossly unsatisfied with all of christian teachings because they all seemed to contradict eachother. Either that, or “he didn’t mean that” or “No, this is what it really except.”

Three years ago, I saw Jesus Christ in a dream talking to a recently deceased family member. I soon went to a Catholic Church. I was confirmed Good Saturday of last year. I go to Mass every morning and I couldn’t be more satisfied with all of the truth that God has granted me.

It’s an atrocity that alot of the “cradle” Catholics throw away the fullness of this spiritual house because they want to eat pork on Ash Wednesday.

 

[Eschato]

No. We do not baptize infants.
A baby cannot understand the issue of sin and why he or she needs salvation.

Do you circumsize infants? Or do you let them grow up and understand which particular body part they are about to have removed?