SPLIT: Gather Hymnal to be phased out?

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I have posted about this before and never got an adequate answer. The rumors persist that praise and worship style music, (think Gathering Hymnal) will be phased out as of First Sunday in Advent 2011. I have heard this from priests in TX, CA and here in NYC. I have also heard this from friends in other states and in England.

A woman in St Louis recently posted on another thread that her pastor has announced to the choir that all “praise and worship” music will be phased out as of that date. So, they are beginning to phase-in new music.

Can anyone involved in liturgy or music at a diocesean or parish level answer this, please? I think there is a lot of mis-information out there.

And no, I am not confusing this with new music related directly to singing parts of the Mass. I am speaking specifically of hymns. Thanks
 
HCC said:
I have posted about this before and never got an adequate answer. The rumors persist that praise and worship style music, (think Gathering Hymnal) will be phased out as of First Sunday in Advent 2011. I have heard this from priests in TX, CA and here in NYC. I have also heard this from friends in other states and in England.

A woman in St Louis recently posted on another thread that her pastor has announced to the choir that all “praise and worship” music will be phased out as of that date. So, they are beginning to phase-in new music.

Can anyone involved in liturgy or music at a diocesean or parish level answer this, please? I think there is a lot of mis-information out there.

And no, I am not confusing this with new music related directly to singing parts of the Mass. I am speaking specifically of hymns. Thanks
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I haven’t heard anything about this with the exception of a couple of people here posting that they heard rumors. I’d love to see some documents, quotes, and sources about this.
 
HCC said:
I have posted about this before and never got an adequate answer. The rumors persist that praise and worship style music, (think Gathering Hymnal) will be phased out as of First Sunday in Advent 2011. I have heard this from priests in TX, CA and here in NYC. I have also heard this from friends in other states and in England.

A woman in St Louis recently posted on another thread that her pastor has announced to the choir that all “praise and worship” music will be phased out as of that date. So, they are beginning to phase-in new music.

Can anyone involved in liturgy or music at a diocesean or parish level answer this, please? I think there is a lot of mis-information out there.

And no, I am not confusing this with new music related directly to singing parts of the Mass. I am speaking specifically of hymns. Thanks
Click to expand...
Well, since many current hymnals will no longer have current Mass parts that means that parishes will want to begin to replace them. That means that any bishops conferences/dioceses/parishes that want to make changes in the type of music used at Mass will have a convenient reason to switch.

But I am unaware of any directive from on high that says, “Thou shalt begin to phase out some music styles and phase in some others.” There is always talk of requiring that there should be an approved list of hymns for use in liturgies but I have never heard that we have process for approval much less a list of approved hymns.
 
The new translations have nothing to do with the hymns. New hymnals will have to be published so as to include the mass translations. Many of the current masses in use have been revised to incorporate the new translations and a number of new masses have been composed. Gather is not being banned. In fact, GIA who publishes the hymnal is working on a new addition to be ready for the 2011 implementation date. Interestingly a number of the new masses now have through composed Gloria’s instead of the refrain/verse/refrain style we have become accustomed to. To hear some of the new compositions you can find them on the different publishers websites. But again to reiterate no musical style is being banned.
 
SMHW said:
Well, since many current hymnals will no longer have current Mass parts that means that parishes will want to begin to replace them. That means that any bishops conferences/dioceses/parishes that want to make changes in the type of music used at Mass will have a convenient reason to switch.
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I think that’s why our hymnals having been allowed to get fairly ratty. Our pastor has been waiting for this! 😃 :harp:
 
HCC said:
I have posted about this before and never got an adequate answer. The rumors persist that praise and worship style music, (think Gathering Hymnal) will be phased out as of First Sunday in Advent 2011. I have heard this from priests in TX, CA and here in NYC. I have also heard this from friends in other states and in England.

A woman in St Louis recently posted on another thread that her pastor has announced to the choir that all “praise and worship” music will be phased out as of that date. So, they are beginning to phase-in new music.

Can anyone involved in liturgy or music at a diocesean or parish level answer this, please? I think there is a lot of mis-information out there.

And no, I am not confusing this with new music related directly to singing parts of the Mass. I am speaking specifically of hymns. Thanks
Click to expand...
I wish they’d throw the “Gather” hymnal (sic) out in the yard but the chances of that happening are slim to none in my view. Our music director, whose piano playing elicited: “I didn’t know I was in a honkey tonk.” from a visiting missionary, would have an apoplectic fit if you took Marty Haugen and Dan Shutte away from him.

I’d give my left arm for a organ and the Adoremus hymnal. (We have an organ, quite an expensive organ as I recall the fund drive, we just prefer the utility of the piano). Remeber, Gater us in the lost and foresaken…aye yah yah.
 
agapewolf said:
Gather hymnal IS NOT praise and worship music.
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No, but it does make you know that God needs you and you get to sing about yourself to Him, and that’s what’s important, you, me, us, we, our, oh shucks…LET’S HOLD HANDS AND SING KUMBAYA! Have you seen my new felt banner? It’s very meaningful, it has a tree and birds!
 
JRRTFAN said:
No, but it does make you know that God needs you and you get to sing about yourself to Him, and that’s what’s important, you, me, us, we, our, oh shucks…LET’S HOLD HANDS AND SING KUMBAYA! Have you seen my new felt banner? It’s very meaningful, it has a tree and birds!
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So, throw out the psalms too.
 
agapewolf said:
Gather hymnal IS NOT praise and worship music.
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Right, but I can’t determine which genre to classify it under: bland, middle class-bad taste or just the sickeningly-annoying categories? I know I’m stumped.

Seriously, though, I have heard, not necessarily “Gathering Hymnal,” whoever created this thread gave it that title, that there are serious changes coming in terms of what hymns may be used during Mass going forward, as of 1st Sunday Advent 2011.

No one else has heard this?

Oh, thank God! I just read the Mass of Creation will not be used going forward! I hope it is true:

I beg you, as we enter this current period of change in the Liturgy, please be sensitive to those of us who love singing Marty Haugen’s Mass of Creation, who prefer the sound of a guitar to an organ, or who find no problem with lyrics like “Praise with elation, praise every morning / God’s recreation of the new day” being made famous by Cat Stevens. I know that we will have to change. I just ask that you refrain from gloating over us.

from: catholicexchange.com/2010/09/13/134261/ (see comments)
 
HCC said:
Right, but I can’t determine which genre to classify it under: bland, middle class-bad taste or just the sickeningly-annoying categories? I know I’m stumped.
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Perhaps your opinion here is letting you hear rumors you want to hear? As Gather is a hymnal, the correct classification would be “hymns” or even “songs”.

I have heard no such rumor and would be very surprised if there was even a modicum of truth in this. As slow as the Church moves, this would be all over the USCCB by now if this was even on the table.
 
It would be a great expense for many parishes to bear–to have to throw away perfectly good hymnals full of hymns that many people really, truly love, and then purchase new “correct” hymnals. What a budget-buster. And in this charming economy, it’s not likely that people will respond liberally to a special emphasis on “Give Extra To Help Pay for the New Hymnals.” Many people are eating supper at a soup kitchen nowadays, or stocking their kitchens (if they still have kitchen) with groceries from the local food pantry.

**I’m guessing that most likely what will happen is that the publishing company will sell an addendum to the current Gather Hymnals, which will contain the new versions of the various Mass settings as well as updated versions of any hymns that contain the word “Yahweh.” The addendum will in all likelihood be paperback, not hardcover, very cheaply printed, and will be designed to slip into the front of the pew Gather hymnal. And it will be very, very cheap–I’m guessing under a dollar and possibly less. **

The directors’ and accompanists’ copies of the addendum might be a little bigger and nicer, but still not terribly expensive.

Yes, yes, I know that all the new Latin Mass settings are online and can be downloaded for free, and can be purchased with Gregorian notation or modern notation. But c’mon, be honest–this kind of music in not likely to be used exclusively in most Masses in most parishes in the U.S. due to a lack of knowledgeable people to educate others how this music is actually done.

Yes, yes, I know, we can learn it through tutorials online. Well, perhaps some parishes will opt for this, and perhaps they will take this opportunity to get rid of Gather hymnals and modern music. But mark my words–this kind of drastic change will not occur in any parish all at once. Chances are good that any parish that makes this choice about their Church music will have been preparing for this for several months or more likely, several years. I don’t think most priests would be willing to thrust something so drastically different on their congregations unless it has been discussed extensively for a long time preceding.
 
HCC said:
I have posted about this before and never got an adequate answer. The rumors persist that praise and worship style music, (think Gathering Hymnal) will be phased out as of First Sunday in Advent 2011. I have heard this from priests in TX, CA and here in NYC. I have also heard this from friends in other states and in England.
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we didn’t bother phasing them out. they were a donation in the first place, and seldom used. when they were damaged by a leaky roof pastor took the opportunity to trash them. we tried not to cheer too loud.
 
Just to be clear…I NEVER SAID GATHER HYMNAL SPECIFICALLY. A mod created this thread based on a question I asked on another thread and gave it this title, which is confusing and annoying.–The title I mean.

Yes, it is true, I loathe the type of music found in Gather Hymnal and cringe every time my schedule has a hiccup and I am forced to go to an OF Mass. Putting that aside, I have heard rumors over and over that “praise and worship” music will be out and what is being labeled “liturgical music” will be in. I have no idea what will constitute “liturgical music,” so I am very curious about that.

Two things to keep in mind when commenting:
  1. If I had only heard this from one person or a small group from, say, the same parish, I would probably let it pass. However, I have been hearing these rumors from priests, religious and laity from multiple cities in several states and a good friend of mine who is working on a theological PHD in England. The other day, a lady from St Louis commented that her pastor told the choir the same thing. So it is coming from many sources.
  2. All of the above in mind, I cannot find ANYTHING definitive online or even remotely referencing the rumored changes. So where is this coming from and what is the truth?
 
Yes, yes, I know that all the new Latin Mass settings are online and can be downloaded for free, and can be purchased with Gregorian notation or modern notation. But c’mon, be honest–this kind of music in not likely to be used exclusively in most Masses in most parishes in the U.S. due to a lack of knowledgeable people to educate others how this music is actually done.
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This is some circular reasoning, because as long as we hold on to this kind of thinking, Gregorian chant won’t be used at all in many parishes, and people won’t be exposed to it, and here we are stuck with a lack of knowledgeable people.

I see that you mentioned the U.S. Hymns tend to stay anchored to the culture which wrote them, partly because they are in the vernacular. In my parish, the English Masses have one set of hymns, and the Spanish Masses have another set, and ne’er the twain shall meet. Gregorian chant is universal, because it is in Latin, so it would actually simplify things for polyglot parishes such as mine.

Thankfully, I think attitudes are changing, due to a surge in popularity of the EF Mass, and there is more opportunity for directors and performers of chant in ever-growing scholas.

Sorry to bring the Latin/vernacular controversy into this thread.

When I visit my family, I am happy to rely on the Adoremus hymnal in their parish. At my home parish, we have copies of Gather in the pews, but more often we use Choral Praise. The pastor resists buying new hymnals because of the cost, but guess what? We have an enormous recurring expense every week. The choir director puts together a worship aid, it is reproduced to hundreds of sheets of paper, and it is thrown away at the end of the weekend. The effort is doubled with English and Spanish Masses. It is extremely wasteful, and the assembly doesn’t even get the music score, they only get the words! So I pray that they will see the light and do the right thing eventually. Now is a pretty good time to shop, as the revised hymnals should be available with correct Mass parts.
 
HCC said:
  1. All of the above in mind, I cannot find ANYTHING definitive online or even remotely referencing the rumored changes. So where is this coming from and what is the truth?
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May I make the suggestion that, if that is the case, and your sources can’t site their sources as being more than “somebody told me”, we just wait and see?
 
HCC said:
. Putting that aside, I have heard rumors over and over that “praise and worship” music will be out and what is being labeled “liturgical music” will be in. I have no idea what will constitute “liturgical music,” so I am very curious about that.
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Perhaps these terms vary in usage from place to place. Most of what I think of when I hear praise and worship music is that which is more suitable to an overhead projector, or a song sheet, than a hymnal.
 
rosary_kat said:
May I make the suggestion that, if that is the case, and your sources can’t site their sources as being more than “somebody told me”, we just wait and see?
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Sorry, that should be CITE. I spell as well as I add and subtract. Sheesh.
 
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