SPLIT: Gather Hymnal to be phased out?

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Liturgicam Authenticam also mandated a review of liturgical music, in addition to having an authentic translation, which we will soon see.

The USCCB requested and recieved permission to address the changes to liturgical music that Liturgicam Authenticam called for until after they handled translating the Missal correctly.

Now that that work is done, we will probably see some more on music.

Based off of what the USCCB itself noted ( usccb.org/liturgy/MUSIC%20FDLCnew.ppt), a good portion of the music found in the Gather hymnal most likely will not make the cut.

The Vatican will require that the USCCB produce a common repitoire of music ( a common hymnal) that meets certain Theological and Christiological criteria. The common repertoir is then to be submitted to the Vatican for a recognitio (Vatican approval).
 
Brendan said:
Liturgicam Authenticam also mandated a review of liturgical music, in addition to having an authentic translation, which we will soon see.

The USCCB requested and recieved permission to address the changes to liturgical music that Liturgicam Authenticam called for until after they handled translating the Missal correctly.

Now that that work is done, we will probably see some more on music.

Based off of what the USCCB itself noted ( usccb.org/liturgy/MUSIC%20FDLCnew.ppt), a good portion of the music found in the Gather hymnal most likely will not make the cut.

The Vatican will require that the USCCB produce a common repitoire of music ( a common hymnal) that meets certain Theological and Christiological criteria. The common repertoir is then to be submitted to the Vatican for a recognitio (Vatican approval).
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Actually, the USCCB did submit its common repitoire of music to the CDWDS back in 2006, but, so far, it has not yet received the required recognitio. I suspect that Cardinal Canizares Lloera and his team are carefully reviewing this document.

Like you, I suspect that a good chunk of the Gather book will be deleted. But, I also expect that heavy edits will occur for the OCP arsenal as well as some of the stuff from WLP.
 
benedictgal said:
Actually, the USCCB did submit its common repitoire of music to the CDWDS back in 2006, but, so far, it has not yet received the required recognitio. I suspect that Cardinal Canizares Lloera and his team are carefully reviewing this document.

Like you, I suspect that a good chunk of the Gather book will be deleted. But, I also expect that heavy edits will occur for the OCP arsenal as well as some of the stuff from WLP.
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Pardon my ignorance, but what is/are CDWDS, OCP arsenal, and WLP? Thanks. :whacky:
 
The only things I’ve heard from a few of the music directors I’ve worked with who keep up with this kind of thing, is that there will be individual hymns discarded. I haven’t heard of anything mentioned that specific styles/genres of music or hymnals will be phased out completely.

Also, although I haven’t heard of the Mass of Creation being “banned” all together, in my diocese they have been working to get it out of the repertoire of all of the diocese’s parishes. It’s coming from the top, so I have noticed that in all the parishes I freelance in, they are doing it less and less. The two that I regularly work in do not do that particular mass at all. The DofW a couple years ago also instructed the music director at my parish to turn down any requests from brides who want the Mass of Creation so it is never done. That said, there are still parishes who continue to use it. I’m actually going to have to cantor it tomorrow at another parish where I’m freelancing.
 
Cat said:
Yes, yes, I know that all the new Latin Mass settings are online and can be downloaded for free, and can be purchased with Gregorian notation or modern notation. But c’mon, be honest–this kind of music in not likely to be used exclusively in most Masses in most parishes in the U.S. due to a lack of knowledgeable people to educate others how this music is actually done.

Yes, yes, I know, we can learn it through tutorials online. Well, perhaps some parishes will opt for this, and perhaps they will take this opportunity to get rid of Gather hymnals and modern music. But mark my words–this kind of drastic change will not occur in any parish all at once. Chances are good that any parish that makes this choice about their Church music will have been preparing for this for several months or more likely, several years. I don’t think most priests would be willing to thrust something so drastically different on their congregations unless it has been discussed extensively for a long time preceding.
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There are many more people eager to teach chant than there are people eager to learn it. I’m a classically trained musician, and I’ve been chanting since before my voice changed. I’d be happy to travel around and teach choirs to chant. It’s actually very easy for the simple chant settings that most churches would want to use with their congregations. There simply isn’t that much interest in learning, though.

But more to the point, if the church hadn’t abandoned ancient practices like being a patron of the arts, we wouldn’t have to worry about the cost of these changes. There shouldn’t be royalties involved. The liturgical texts should be owned by the church. The church should pay composers to compose music for the church as “works for hire” so that the church and not the composer owns the rights to the music. The whole royalty system is a financial nightmare for the church that could be easily corrected. That’s how it worked in the past before the copyright laws existed, and there are still the mechanisms in copyright law to allow for such a system. Composers would still be paid to write music; it’s mostly the publishing companies that would lose out and, frankly, at this point we don’t need them.

And I say that as a trained composer that has copyrighted music. “All things have their season, and in their times all things pass under heaven.” (And yes, I know that’s not exactly what the Byrds sang. It’s the Douay-Rheims translation).
 
HCC said:
I have posted about this before and never got an adequate answer. The rumors persist that praise and worship style music, (think Gathering Hymnal) will be phased out as of First Sunday in Advent 2011. I have heard this from priests in TX, CA and here in NYC. I have also heard this from friends in other states and in England.

A woman in St Louis recently posted on another thread that her pastor has announced to the choir that all “praise and worship” music will be phased out as of that date. So, they are beginning to phase-in new music.

Can anyone involved in liturgy or music at a diocesean or parish level answer this, please? I think there is a lot of mis-information out there.

And no, I am not confusing this with new music related directly to singing parts of the Mass. I am speaking specifically of hymns. Thanks
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This is a response to an old post, but if they need somebody to stoke the fire while they throw the “Gather” song books (hymnals is a stretch) into it, I will volunteer. It’s time for Dan, Marty and the crew to be given a graceful retirement, they deserve it now that God knows how much he owes us based on 40 years of their “hymns”. Maybe we can have 40 years of singing how much we owe him now that he’s got the picture and is properly in his place. Here’s a good “Gather” Easter hymn, in lieu of the outmoded, “Jesus Christ is RIsen Today”, let’s do “Lord of the Dance”! After, of course, “Morning has Broken” (airsick bags are available in the “lobby”.). Advent can’t come soon enough.
 
JRRTFAN said:
This is a response to an old post, but if they need somebody to stoke the fire while they throw the “Gather” song books (hymnals is a stretch) into it,…
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Well, I would guess you are good at stoking fires.:rolleyes:
 
FrancisB said:
But more to the point, if the church hadn’t abandoned ancient practices like being a patron of the arts, we wouldn’t have to worry about the cost of these changes. There shouldn’t be royalties involved. The liturgical texts should be owned by the church. The church should pay composers to compose music for the church as “works for hire” so that the church and not the composer owns the rights to the music. The whole royalty system is a financial nightmare for the church that could be easily corrected. That’s how it worked in the past before the copyright laws existed, and there are still the mechanisms in copyright law to allow for such a system. Composers would still be paid to write music; it’s mostly the publishing companies that would lose out and, frankly, at this point we don’t need them.
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You hit the nail on the head. I believe ICEL still holds the copyrights to all anglicized translations used in the liturgy. And there have been other complaints of them receiving royalties for any music that is published using their translations. What’s interesting is that many of the newer translations involve using the old Cranmer/Anglican translations (Gloria, Credo, Sanctus) and supposedly they had been put into the public domain. So who, if anyone, will claim copyrights for these? It would seem most unfair to be collecting royalty fees for them. (Not speaking about the publication companies which have separate publication copyrights which prohibit zeroxing and such.)
 
MuchAfraid said:
On a lighter note…
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It was funny. I would hope you would find a parody of Panis Angelicus equally amusing and not sacreligious. I find it ironic that many here who bemoan a lack of reverence do not mind lampooning various other religious songs. " Gather Us In" has been a target for years. I think a message from the older generation is need, namely, that if you want respect, you have to give respect. Perhaps that young man on YouTube may learn that some day.
 
Considering I don’t consider that modern trash called “music” that is in the Gather song book (and others) religious music, I find absolutely nothing wrong with making fun of it. Just yesterday I was making people laugh by doing a medley of some supposed mushy, sappy, shallow funeral song with Georgy Girl. The funny thing? Nobody noticed I was doing it until I told them!!!

Seriously, let’s get back to real church music!

EDIT: I’ve kept the church’s ONE Gather hymnal around because it actually has ONE hymn in it that I haven’t found elsewhere that I want to keep.
 
ANNE_2 said:
icelweb.org/musicfolder/openmusic.php

ICEL link provided via the USCCB web site - under the Roman Missal Third Edition.
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Thanks. That is a great resource. I noticed they have the new translation set to Jubilate Dei. Since this thread is on Gather, as GIA product, here is there link. It contains both the revised settings and some new ones.

giamusic.com/sacred_music/

This summer I guess I will have to start looking and making a decision.
 
I’m not a music director nor an expert on sacred music, but I am very interested in sacred music so I read all the threads on here about it.

I know we all have our own tastes in music and there are many people who despise “Gather” and Marty Haugen and Dan Schutte and all the other musical demons that are constantly kicked around on this and other Catholic forums.

Please however, take time if you can and realize that some of this music you disparage and despise means something to a lot of people. I’m not a fan of “Lord of the Dance” but I was raised singing a lot of the “Gather” hymnal (along with Gregorian chant – our parish has always had diverse music), and other music that people here seem to hate so much. I love a lot of that music (along with traditional church hymns) and so do many other Catholics, and just because they are “modern” or new doesn’t make them horrible and wrong just because some people don’t like them.

That music doesn’t just speak to a “modern” generation either. My mother, who was raised Byzantine Catholic during the depression and then attended Roman rite after moving to the south, loved the folk Mass at our local parish more than any other. When she died of cancer in 2000, the music at her funeral Mass included “On Eagle’s Wings” and “Be Not Afraid” and some other hymns that have been roundly disparaged over and over on music threads here and elsewhere.

Everyone has their own opinion. In the discussion, however, remember that different music is meaningful to different Catholics. My hope is that the new translation will simply offer more chance for diverse musical selections at our parishes, combining the best of the modern with the best of the traditional. Just because it was created or written in the past 40 years doesn’t make it bad.

Just a thought – God bless.
 
HCC said:
I have posted about this before and never got an adequate answer. The rumors persist that praise and worship style music, (think Gathering Hymnal) will be phased out as of First Sunday in Advent 2011. I have heard this from priests in TX, CA and here in NYC. I have also heard this from friends in other states and in England.

A woman in St Louis recently posted on another thread that her pastor has announced to the choir that all “praise and worship” music will be phased out as of that date. So, they are beginning to phase-in new music.

Can anyone involved in liturgy or music at a diocesean or parish level answer this, please? I think there is a lot of mis-information out there.

And no, I am not confusing this with new music related directly to singing parts of the Mass. I am speaking specifically of hymns. Thanks
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I was speaking to a friend of mine about this yesterday who works in music publishing and he said that a revised Gather Hymnal is indeed forthcoming to conform to the new Mass translation. However, GIA would never (at least willingly) cut out popular tunes, or at least the ones to which they hold the copyright, because it just wouldn’t be profitable.

Also recall that GIA holds the exclusive copyright to the Revised Psalter, so they will also be profiting on royalties as all sorts of musicians write new settings for a new psalter.

In general, music publishers LOVE hymnal revisions because it gives them a chance to replace texts that they’ve previous sold with new versions of what is largely the same thing.
 
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