SPLIT: How is a Catholic saved?

[mpjw2]

NOTE: These posts were off topic in another thread and have been split off here to allow that discussion to continue and not derail the original thread.

Very confused on "No Salvation Outside the Catholic Church."

I am equally certain that I would not be purified of all the effects of past sins. I would be required to undergo some serious purging before see the Lord face-to-face.

this is what I was looking for David.

after you make a confession of past sins remembered and forgotten, why do you believe you would not be 100% totally forgiven, I do nort understand this purging you refer to…

what is there to purge?
after confession the chains are broken and you have been set free…that is until you sin again.

thank you

mpjw

 

[davidv]

this is what I was looking for David.

after you make a confession of past sins remembered and forgotten, why do you believe you would not be 100% totally forgiven, I do nort understand this purging you refer to…

what is there to purge?
after confession the chains are broken and you have been set free…that is until you sin again.

thank you

mpjw

Do you know the difference between forgiveness and reparation?

You may be free, but you have not payed for the broken window (damage due to sin).

Forgiveness does not erase the temporal effects of sin. This is what purging deals with.

 

[mpjw2]

mpjw2, if you’ve left the Catholic Church (correct me if you haven’t) how do you participate in the vital sacraments of the Eucharist and Reconciliation? I’m curious, because these sacraments are available validly only in the Catholic Church.

The church I attend has communion Sunday once a month and I make a confession to God so that my sins can be forgiven

“When he had said this, he breathed on them; and he said to them: Receive ye the Holy Ghost. Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them: and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained.” (John 20:22-23)

mpjw2, how do you understand this passage of Scripture?

Lets make this personal…

you go for a job interview for a position at a company I work

I do not like you and I am good friends with the person you interviewed with

I advise my friend not to hire you and I make up a fabricated story about you…

you do not get the job because of the lies I told about you

As a result you may now have a grudge against me for doing what I did…yes?

Being a christian, Jesus does not want us to have grudges

He advises love and forgive your enemy

fxcc…If you confess to God that you are holding a grudge against me, you will not be totally free from the grudge you hold against me until you have forgiven me in your heart.

and it does not matter if I apologized to you or not for what i did that prevented you from getting the job

now when you read the verse, you see how this scenario applies…

Whose sins you shall forgive they are forgiven them: and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained."

you can not be forgiven of your sin against me until you you forgive my sin against you

God bless

 

[mpjw2]

Do you know the difference between forgiveness and reparation?

You may be free, but you have not payed for the broken window (damage due to sin).

Forgiveness does not erase the temporal effects of sin. This is what purging deals with.

My friend Jesus paid for everything by dying on that cross for you …everything

you do not have to pay for anything…nothing at all

Do you fully trust Jesus Christ with you life.

He will not leave you or foresake you

Trust Him, believe in Him,

When you sincerely confess you are 100% purified, clean until such time you fall to sin once more.

 

[davidv]

My friend Jesus paid for everything by dying on that cross for you …everything

you do not have to pay for anything…nothing at all

Do you fully trust Jesus Christ with you life.

He will not leave you or foresake you

Trust Him, believe in Him,

When you sincerely confess you are 100% purified, clean until such time you fall to sin once more.

Am a very sorry, but you have been deceived. Jesus did not pay for everything. We must take up our cross and follow him.

 

[paul_c]

My friend Jesus paid for everything by dying on that cross for you …everything

you do not have to pay for anything…nothing at all

Do you fully trust Jesus Christ with you life.

He will not leave you or foresake you

Trust Him, believe in Him,

When you sincerely confess you are 100% purified, clean until such time you fall to sin once more.

You have been deceived. Jesus’ death on the cross opened up the opportunity of heaven for us, but it did not pay for all our sins. We are still personally responsible for our own actions. We will be judged based on what we do…You are a big follower of St. Paul. This is what he says in Romans 2:
5 By your stubbornness and impenitent heart, you are storing up wrath for yourself for the day of wrath and revelation of the just judgment of God,
6 who will repay everyone according to his works:
7 eternal life to those who seek glory, honor, and immortality through perseverance in good works,
8 but wrath and fury to those who selfishly disobey the truth and obey wickedness.
9 Yes, affliction and distress will come upon every human being who does evil, Jew first and then Greek.
10 But there will be glory, honor, and peace for everyone who does good, Jew first and then Greek
God is perfectly merciful but also perfectly just. He is not infinitely merciful. Even you understand that because otherwise there would be no hell and no point of morality. Life would be rendered meaningless if our actions didn’t matter in the economy of salvation. He is perfectly merciful, because he allows us to be reconciled to him after sin through the sacrament of reconciliation as often as we desire to turn back to him. He is perfectly just because that is his nature. He will be stern with sinners as he was with the Israelites in the desert. But he will reward those who do his will unfailingly. Take that to heart.

 

[Des]

Whose sins you shall forgive they are forgiven them: and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained."

you can not be forgiven of your sin against me until you you forgive my sin against you

God bless

mpjw, nowhere in that verse or any Bible translation online does that say: “whose sins you shall forgive they are forgiven them, and whose sins you shall retain, YOURS are retained.”

The entire passage is talking about only one indvidual’s sins that are being forgiven or retained. Not two. There’s really no way around it.

 

[fxcc]

mpjw, nowhere in that verse or any Bible translation online does that say: “whose sins you shall forgive they are forgiven them, and whose sins you shall retain, YOURS are retained.”

The entire passage is talking about only one individual’s sins that are being forgiven or retained. Not two. There’s really no way around it.

Scripture counsels us to … confess your sins to one another and pray for one another, that you may be healed … (James 5:16)

To admit one’s failings to a fellow human takes a degree of humility - the kind of humility that the Son of God so profoundly exemplified, from His birth in a borrowed stable right up to His burial in a borrowed grave. Indeed, the whole Salvation Story can be synopsized as Christ overturning the effects of the pride and disobedience of Adam by the merits of His humility and obedience - even unto death on a Cross. This was how He conquered sin and death … with God’s Humility and Obedience vs Man’s Pride and Disobedience.

The **deadly **hallmark of Protestantism - indeed the underlying **driver **of Protestantism - is **not **some godly desire to reform the Church, although that was/is the grandiose claim. It is merely pride, leading to rejection of God’s Word and His Church’s dictates, on a wide range of fronts. Protestants attempt to cover this up with an often feigned failure to understand even the most **blatantly **obvious commands of Scripture, replacing these with self-serving interpretations of God’s Word and temporally convenient doctrines of “faith”, under a cloud of terrifyingly delusionary proclamations (“I am saved, and I cannot lose my salvation!”, “Heaven is already guaranteed to me!”, “All you need is faith!”, “Jesus paid the full price for my sins, so I won’t have to suffer any consequences for my sins!”, et al).

This pride is so vividly on display in the rants of the founding father of Protestantism, Mr Martin Luther. Just about every second sentence out of the man’s mouth stank with pride, self aggrandisement and hideous boasting (not to mention unbridled hatred of other Christians, blasphemy, disobedience, disputation and heresies galore). Exactly the opposite of the humility, obedience and sobriety displayed by Christ or a St Peter or a St Paul (who worked out his salvation with “fear and trembling”).

We see this same pride in the Protestant’s rejection of Church regulations: “We don’t follow any religion”, they boastfully cry - as though that is spiritual correctness! This despite the fact that Jesus Himself was a Jew who faithfully observed the sacred traditions and rituals of the Jewish religion. This despite the fact that from its earliest days Christianity has been characterised by religious beliefs and practices.

We see this pride in a Protestant’s rejection of the Church’s doctrinal authority: “We devise the doctrines of our faith (and change them at will), as we deem fit.”

We see this pride in the doctrine of Sola Scriptura: “We have a copy of the Catholic Church’s Good Book (which we’ve “edited” to our liking), so now we have no need of sacred Tradition or a Church Magisterium to teach us how to know, understand, obey or please God.”

We see this pride in a Protestant’s rejection of the Sacraments: “We don’t need sacramental graces for our Christian journey. We don’t accept the alleged ‘Real Presence’ of Jesus in the Eucharist - notwithstanding Jesus’ words in John 6. In any case, why would we need to be sacramentally nourished by the flesh and blood of the sacrificed Lamb of God? We’d have to be really weak in ourselves to need such exceptional spiritual food! No thanks, we’re not that weak, hence we don’t need it. By the way, we do conduct a re-enactment of the Lord’s Supper, when the fancy occasionally takes us - mind you, not with Bread and Wine as in the Last Supper, but with crackers and grape juice. (We have our reasons).”

We see this pride in the fundamentalist’s rejection of the Virgin Mary’s blessed motherhood of God - even though Jesus, her son, is fully God. As for her sinlessness? “Bah, humbug! She was a sinner, just like the rest of us! Why would God make anyone distinctively different to us in any way?”

We see this pride even in the constant splitting and mutation of Protestants’ own “churches” and denominations: “We no longer agree with what our current “church” teaches, so we’re off to form another (church no. 30,666), with new doctrines and worship practices that better suit us. See ya later!”

And so on. And on. And on. Pride, ego and ugly self - resulting in disobedience, rebellion and anarchy, every step of the Protesters’ way.

It’s quite acceptable in the everyday life of a Protestant to say in a simple, honest and straight forward manner to a fellow human being, “Gee, you know something? I messed up … (with whatever)”, but as soon as it comes to admitting his failings to God’s Church - to an ordained priest acting ministerially “in persona Christi” - Satan makes sure that the Protestant’s murderous pride immediately gets in the way. “We confess our failings only to God, and to no man!” A Protestant will **not **confess his sins to the Church, regardless of **what **Scripture says and no matter **what **authority Christ has given His Church, even if that is precisely to forgive our sins on earth so that they can also be forgiven in heaven.

I confess to Almighty God, and to you, my brothers and sisters in Christ, that I have sinned … and thereby offended God and caused harm to you, His Body, His One Holy Church. I beg forgiveness of you here on earth, so that God in His mercy may also forgive me in heaven.

Thank God we’re Catholic. Praise God that we’ve been blessed with the grace and **humility **to accept the Way, the **Truth **and the Life.

 

[mpjw2]

Am a very sorry, but you have been deceived. Jesus did not pay for everything. We must take up our cross and follow him.

so true david …but that is here on earth…
God may have promised us salvation but He did not promise us a “rose garden” here on earth.

Life on earth is like a marathon race. There will be many aches and pains during the race…some people unfortunately quit running.

but for those who endure and cross the finish line … there is the joy of expression which goes beyond imagination.

Everyones finish line is the day we take our very last breath on earth.

in the very next moment, we immediately will realize …

after all the crosses we carried on earth, (being mocked because we believe in God, personal addictions and/or bad habits we always struggled with, buried in debt, bad relationships, our physical injuries and/or illnesses to which there was no cure, and the list goes on and on…)

It was ALL worth it…alleluia praise God in heaven. Thank you Jesus.

I am sry you believe that there is a delay between our last breath and when we actually get to heaven.

Okay let’s say you are right.

I assume we are talking about purgatory, right?

consider this then…

back to my scenario…confessing known and forgotten sins and then dying immediately after.

You believe in a purging process in purgatory before entering heaven …ok
if this is in fact true for all believers…

Do you believe that, after spending time in purgatory, there is still a chance someone may not spend eternity in heaven?

**In other words…David, if you were to make a confession right now where you are of sins known and forgotten, are you 100% sure that you will go to heaven? **

**if not immediately after your death, do you believe you will after time spent in purgatory? **

Is there anyway possible way you believe that you may not spend eternity in heaven?

if yes…How would that be possible?

thank you

God bless

mpjw

 

[paul_c]

Fxcc,
I think you are absolutely on mark about pride being the driver of the early Protestants, particularly Martin Luther. But in his case, he also recognized he was a sinful man, so he created a theology where sin didn’t matter. That isn’t pride so much as delusion that he could change the truth to his liking…

This is not always the motivation of the today’s Protestants. Many have been mislead into thinking that the truth’s taught by their predecessors were indeed the truth and they are loyal to what they have been taught. This is a difficult trap because loyalty is usually seen as a virtue. Therefore, it is hard to overcome. It is made even more difficult because anti-Catholicism is built into the very fabric of Protestantism, because after all, it is against the Catholic Church that they are protesting so when one converts to Catholicism, tey are going against the grain and against their own family values.

Nonetheless, many of those that come here do indeed see the light and become converts.

 

[paul_c]

so true david …but that is here on earth…
God may have promised us salvation but He did not promise us a “rose garden” here on earth.

Life on earth is like a marathon race. There will be many aches and pains during the race…some people unfortunately quit running.

but for those who endure and cross the finish line … there is the joy of expression which goes beyond imagination.

Everyones finish line is the day we take our very last breath on earth.

in the very next moment, we immediately will realize …

after all the crosses we carried on earth, (being mocked because we believe in God, personal addictions and/or bad habits we always struggled with, buried in debt, bad relationships, our physical injuries and/or illnesses to which there was no cure, and the list goes on and on…)

It was ALL worth it…alleluia praise God in heaven. Thank you Jesus.

I am sry you believe that there is a delay between our last breath and when we actually get to heaven.

Okay let’s say you are right.

I assume we are talking about purgatory, right?

consider this then…

back to my scenario…confessing known and forgotten sins and then dying immediately after.

You believe in a purging process in purgatory before entering heaven …ok
if this is in fact true for all believers…

Do you believe that, after spending time in purgatory, there is still a chance someone may not spend eternity in heaven?

**In other words…David, if you were to make a confession right now where you are of sins known and forgotten, are you 100% sure that you will go to heaven? **

**if not immediately after your death, do you believe you will after time spent in purgatory? **

Is there anyway possible way you believe that you may not spend eternity in heaven?

if yes…How would that be possible?

thank you

God bless

mpjw

When you die there are three possible scenarios in Catholic theology:

1. you die out of the state of grace, are condemned immediately and go to Hell
2. you die in the state of grace but you haven’t become truly holy. You are purified in purgatory and then you go to Heaven. If you make to it purgatory, heaven is guaranteed.
3. You die in the state of grace and have achieved personal holiness in life and go directly to heaven.

By the way, one huge difference between how you think about this and how a devout Catholic thinks about this is that Catholics don’t worry about whether they are saved. We simply try to live sacramental lives of love and trust in God to judge justly. You will never hear a devout Catholic say “I’ve been saved” , ever.

 

[mpjw2]

paul…

You have been deceived.

Really?

Jesus’ death on the cross opened up the opportunity of heaven for us

but it did not pay for ***all ***our sins.

You believe this? of course you do. otherwise you would not say it.

We are still personally responsible for our own actions. We will be judged based on what we do…You are a big follower of St. Paul. This is what he says in Romans 2:…

I will make a final comment about a key verse in Romans later…

Paul from Isaiah 64:6…consider this

But we are all like an unclean thing, And all our righteousnesses are like filthy rags; We all fade as a leaf, And our iniquities, like the wind, Have taken us away.

Take this verse to heart

this is what I mean by stating that our good works are meaningless unless we have Jesus Christ first in our hearts…please do not misunderstand what i am saying.

I beleieve When we get to heaven we will find out two things for sure…

there will be people there we least expected to be there

but more shocking is

the group of great, good, generous people who are not in heaven or will never be there and the reason for that is because they denied Jesus Christ while they lived on earth.

**Paul, Is there any thing you can do which will cause your earthly father to stop loving you? **

**you honor and love your father because you desire to do so right?

and it is not because one of the commandments state to honor your father, right?**
all your good deeds toward your father stem from the fact all the love which he has given and done for you

and

like wise if you are a parent you would expect the same from your children.

I would make a guess and say… all the good you done stems from the love your parents gave you from birth…right?

the problem is in our humanity we will disobey our parents and/or not be good 100% of the time resulting in being disciplined for our actions.

it does not mean our parents stopped loving us but they punish us because they love us, right?.

Yes Paul, God wants us to do good and be righteous. However there is one alarming fact…

No matter how righteous we are, we are human and will sin from to to time…
by telling a lie, stealing something, lusting over another person or cursed against God…to name a few

and like our earthly father we need to be punished for our sin of disobeying God’s commandments, right?

Unfortunately, God’s punishment is eternity in hell

this is what Isaiah 64:6 is telling us.

So you see, Since the human race are all sinners, we are all doomed to hell unless our sins are forgiven right?

this is why I say just doing good is meaningless

God is perfectly merciful but also perfectly just.

agree

He is not infinitely merciful.

yes He is to all who have believed in Him and in Jesus Christ and have died without sin.

God is merciful up until the very last moment of our life…even when we are taking our very last breath…God is merciful to accept anyone who sincerely turns to Him.

i.e. the one thief on the cross is a perfect example… in his dying breath, confessed to Jesus and is in heaven. the other thief is not

Life would be rendered meaningless if our actions didn’t matter in the economy of salvation. He is perfectly merciful, because he allows us to be reconciled to him after sin through the sacrament of reconciliation as often as we desire to turn back to him. He is perfectly just because that is his nature.

agree

He will be stern with sinners

He will punish sinners for eternity in hell.

But he will reward those who do his will unfailingly. Take that to heart.

Paul, I say this again…there is only ONE thing you need to do to be assured of heaven…That is to BELIEVE

Once you believe, everything else falls into place.

the good deeds you do are not because you have to do them

You do good out of love and respect of the Love God has given you

Do you understand what I am saying?

I do not tithe, go to church, pray, read the bible, invite people to church, hold doors open for people, let people know I appreciate them, pay for my daughter’s friend carnival ticket, do all those other small acts of kindness… because I feel I HAVE to do them to get to heaven

I do them out of my desire to honor God and/or to illustrate to others God is real

Bottom line even if I didnt do all which I mentioned, I still will go to heaven, I am sure of it.

But when I die, and here are where the rewards come in…

once in heaven, there will be rewards for anything we have done in our lives for the kingdom of God.

Do you believe God cares about your work a earning a paycheck

Or do you believe He cares about while at work you show your coworkers an act of kindness? i.e. but them lunch one day, a coffee, help them in a difficult situation.
invite then to church…etc

For this there are rewards in heaven.

this is what is meant in Romans 2:6

who(God) will repay everyone according to his works:

How many rewards do you desire to have?

See you in paradise

God bless

mpjw

 

[mpjw2]

Did the so called church fathers believe that Peter was the “rock” that our LORD would build His church on? I don’t think so. Catholic historians have written about the “fathers” believing that our Lord was either speaking of Himself or the Peter’s confession.
Check out von Dollinger [The Pope and The Council. London, 1869, p. 74] and de Rosa [Vicars of Christ: The Dark Side of The Papacy, Crown Publishers, 1988, pp. 24-25.

thank you Quick Cat…since you made other references here is a the actual transript from a speech made by Bishop Strossmayer at the Vatican Council Of 1870…

mtc.org/bishop_s.html
[/quote]

 

[fxcc]

Fxcc,
I think you are absolutely on mark about pride being the driver of the early Protestants, particularly Martin Luther. But in his case, he also recognized he was a sinful man, so he created a theology where sin didn’t matter. That isn’t pride so much as delusion that he could change the truth to his liking…

This is not always the motivation of the today’s Protestants. Many have been mislead into thinking that the truth’s taught by their predecessors were indeed the truth and they are loyal to what they have been taught. This is a difficult trap because loyalty is usually seen as a virtue. Therefore, it is hard to overcome. It is made even more difficult because anti-Catholicism is built into the very fabric of Protestantism, because after all, it is against the Catholic Church that they are protesting so when one converts to Catholicism, tey are going against the grain and against their own family values.

Nonetheless, many of those that come here do indeed see the light and become converts.

Thanks Paul.

I agree with all you’ve said and I praise and thank God for those non Catholic Christians who’ve harnessed the courage of their convictions to come home to God’s one true Church. It’s all God’s doing of course, so I pray that He leads many more back to the shelter of the Rock.

I’m a cradle Catholic, but both my parents were converts to Catholicism, each from a different faith. When I hear about the hurdles that each of them had to overcome to arrive at the fullness of truth, I struggle to fully understand and appreciate the immense challenge(s) that they faced, especially in the more conservative society of over half a century ago. It’s generally so much easier to choose one’s own faith nowadays, at least within the Christian world - although we still hear some tales of bitter and painful opposition.

There’s a question though about contemporary Protestantism that begs to be asked…

Putting the Catholic Church totally aside for a minute, why are **today’s **Protestants constantly creating new “churches” and denominations amongst themselves, each with a new/different set of beliefs/doctrines? So many in fact, that everybody’s lost count. What’s driving that? What sort of communal **mindset **makes so many individuals in a faith community imagine that they have legitimate authority to “found” a “church” according to their own personal understanding of God and His Word? Is Protestantism not spawning an exponential number of new Luthers in the world today? From another angle, what is so inexorably driving non Catholic Christians further and further away from reconciliation and unity, even among themselves, let alone with the Catholic Church? How can the Word of God change or mutate so many times, in this case within Protestantism? Is it that it isn’t the Truth that is mutating (because He can’t), but rather, a lie? Is that it?

Every time I try to engage a non Catholic Christian on this question, I’m met either with silence or a change of topic, so I’d be very interested in some commentary on this straight from the mouths of Protestants themselves.

Francis

 

[mpjw2]

When you die there are three possible scenarios in Catholic theology:

1. you die out of the state of grace, are condemned immediately and go to Hell

which I believe, if one dies with sin, they will go to hell…

1. you die in the state of grace but you haven’t become truly holy. You are purified in purgatory and then you go to Heaven. If you make to it purgatory, heaven is guaranteed.

I do not believe in purgatory

1. You die in the state of grace and have achieved personal holiness in life and go directly to heaven.

You die without sin, you have expressed to God your sincere belief in Him and in Jesus Christ and have made as many confessions as necessary in your lifetime to be forgiven of your sins by the blood Jesus Christ shed for you.

By the way, one huge difference between how you think about this and how a devout Catholic thinks about this is that …

Catholics don’t worry about whether they are saved.

I do not believe you said this…you are not worried about going to heaven or not?

We simply try to live sacramental lives of love and trust in God to judge justly.

**I try to live a life of love also however there are times I fail …sin

I believe God will Judge justly too,

If I die with sin I am guilty and God sentences me to hell

If I die without sin …all my sin was confessed to God backed by a sincere trust and belief that the blood of Jesus forgave all my sin, God will say to me

“Well done, good and faithful servant… Enter into the joy of your lord.” **

as He welcomes me into heaven.

You will never hear a devout Catholic say “I’ve been saved” , ever.

There lies a big difference…

Paul…don’t you consider yourself a Christian?

I assume yes. I for one believe you are

I believe all devout Christians, who realize the truth of God’s word and promise, can declare that they are saved

I believe the devout Catholics who you speak about, of which I have no doubt you are one, are also devout Christians who can declare they are saved too.

Paul if you do nothing else take a few mins and take these music videos to heart…
Some scenes in the 1st two videos are not pleasant to look at but He did out of His love for all of us.

youtube.com/watch?v=MQBBihRwP8o

youtube.com/watch?v=HzNsEBPB-Z8

youtube.com/watch?v=8M4_IlbaZHA

there is no pride in declaring being saved. It is saying thank you to God for giving you the best gift anyone can receive out of His expression of love for you and each and every one of us.

Bottom line…there is absolutely no salvation outside of Jesus Christ’s church of believers in Him.

God bless you

mpjw

 

[fxcc]

thank you Quick Cat…since you made other references here is a the actual transript from a speech made by Bishop Strossmayer at the Vatican Council Of 1870…

mtc.org/bishop_s.html

One dissenting voice maketh not a Council.

The exception maketh not the rule.

The passionate speech of Bishop Strossmayer of Diakovár on 22 March in the thirty-first general congregation of the Church called forth a storm of indignation from the majority, which finally forced the speaker to leave the tribune. On 24 April, the first Constitution, “De fide catholica”, was **unanimously **adopted in the third public session by the **667 fathers **present, and was formally confirmed and promulgated by the pope.

 

[mpjw2]

One dissenting voice maketh not a Council.

The exception maketh not the rule.

The passionate speech of Bishop Strossmayer of Diakovár on 22 March in the thirty-first general congregation of the Church called forth a storm of indignation from the majority, which finally forced the speaker to leave the tribune. On 24 April, the first Constitution, “De fide catholica”, was **unanimously **adopted in the third public session by the **667 fathers **present, and was formally confirmed and promulgated by the pope.

The majority is not always right…is it?

 

[mpjw2]

to all,

my trials of life are different form all your trials of life.

I sincerely pray that we all endure with the help of God’s grace and love and keep out eye focused on Him and the finish line.

It will be at the finish line, immediately after taken our last breath, that all of His faithful will hear His words…

“Well done, good and faithful servant… Enter into the joy of your Lord.”

Can you imagine how that moment will be like?

youtube.com/watch?v=0xwzItqYmII

the last scene says it all

God bless

 

[paul_c]

There lies a big difference…

Paul…don’t you consider yourself a Christian?

I assume yes. I for one believe you are

I believe all devout Christians, who realize the truth of God’s word and promise, can declare that they are saved

I believe the devout Catholics who you speak about, of which I have no doubt you are one, are also devout Christians who can declare they are saved too.

Paul if you do nothing else take a few mins and take these music videos to heart…
Some scenes in the 1st two videos are not pleasant to look at but He did out of His love for all of us.

youtube.com/watch?v=MQBBihRwP8o

youtube.com/watch?v=HzNsEBPB-Z8

youtube.com/watch?v=8M4_IlbaZHA

there is no pride in declaring being saved. It is saying thank you to God for giving you the best gift anyone can receive out of His expression of love for you and each and every one of us.

Bottom line…there is absolutely no salvation outside of Jesus Christ’s church of believers in Him.

God bless you

mpjw

First of all, I actually never worry about whether I will go to heaven. The thought never crosses my mind unless someone like you brings it up. My focus is completely on trying to follow Jesus in my daily life because that is the only thing I can effect. Who am I to judge my own worthiness?

Secondly, your statement above " I believe all devout Christians, who realize the truth of God’s word and promise, can declare that they are saved " is you opinion, but it is without merit or support. Sure they can claim they are saved, but they are not the judge. St. Paul, after all he did, after all, preached perseverence in the faith, claiming that if he fell from his duties, he would not be given the heaven he preached.

 

[paul_c]

The majority is not always right…is it?

No, but they have a miuch greater probability of being right than a single heretic.