Split: If you are addicted, is it a sin?

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clem456 said:
Wikipedia on Peele:

Lindesmith Center(now the Drug Policy Alliance):

Some fine writings by this man directly from his website:
Click to expand...
Clem,

And you attack the messenger…the message remains

AA is a religion
Addiction is not a disease
Gluttony is a sin
Sin and salvation are offered through the Church
To align your will with the Will of God is veritatis splendor

The disciples of the 12 step religion/AA attack just like some Protestants attack and that is to be expected based on the Protestant roots of the 12 step/AA religion…

This reminds me of the Protestants attack on presumed errors of the Church, many Popes, eating meat on Friday, Indulgences, etc…but the message remains the same…

Addiction is a sin…😃

I ask and wait for one scientically proven study that shows without doubt that the 12 step religion of AA is any better than 10% or equal to doing nothing…just one study…that is all I ask…just one…🙂
 
johnnyjones said:
Mormons don’t meet in Catholic Church basements to proselytize, nor do I know of any other religious group (which AA is) that is allowed to do that. I’m not defending all of AA though, you can’t seem to see that. I see addictive behavior as needing treatment, just like a serial adulterer would.
Click to expand...
Johnny,

Where someone meets is not relevant to what they teach and believe nor is it de facto evidence of approval. Look at the resistance from the disciples of the 12 step religion of AA. The media message of the disease model is overwhelmingly accepted and if you did not know any better would believe that there was efficacy beyond 10%. No one however takes the time to investigate the truth about addiction. Instead we hear parroted the passages from the Big Book of the 12 step religion of AA. The disease model is accepted hook line and sinker without questioning it. Hardly anyone knows about the twelve and twelve and the idea that Gluttony is a sin that needs to be addressed and that Gluttony is in fact at the heart of the

sin of addiction.
 
CopticChristian said:
Clem,

And you attack the messenger…the message remains
Click to expand...
I attack no one. This is the message you espouse for addicts. You have no shame.

Wikipedia on Peele:

Quote:
Funding

Lindesmith Center (now the Drug Policy Alliance): grant to write an adolescent drug guide (1996).

The **Distilled Spirits Council of the United States **(DISCUS), and the Wine Institute provided unrestricted grants.[12

Lindesmith Center(now the Drug Policy Alliance):

Quote:
The Drug Policy Alliance (DPA) is a New York City-based non-profit organization, led by executive director Ethan Nadelmann, with the **principal goal of ending the American “War on Drugs”. The stated priorities of the organization are the decriminalization of responsible drug use, the promotion of harm reduction and treatment in response to drug misuse, and the facilitation of open dialog about drugs between youth, parents, and educators.

Mission

"The Drug Policy Alliance envisions a just society in which **the use and regulation of drugs **are grounded in science, compassion, health and human rights, in which **people are no longer punished **for what they put into their own bodies but only for crimes committed against others, and in which the fears, prejudices and punitive prohibitions of today are no more.

Our mission is to advance those policies and attitudes that best reduce the **harms of **both drug misuse and drug prohibition, and to promote the sovereignty of individuals over their minds and bodies."[3]

Quote:
The **Distilled Spirits Council of the United States **(DISCUS) is a national trade association **representing producers and marketers of distilled spirits **sold in the United States. DISCUS was formed in 1973 by the merger of three organizations (the Bourbon Institute, the Distilled Spirits Institute, and the Licensed Beverage Industries, Inc.) that had been in existence for decades

Quote:
Peele supported Moderation Management founder Audrey Kishline, who also subscribed to the belief that addiction is not a disease.[13] **After giving up her own attempts at moderation **to seek help with AA, Kishline was convicted of killing a father and his 12-year-old daughter while driving under the influence of alcohol.[14] This was widely claimed to invalidate Kishline’s position and by association, Peele’s. Peele was one of 34 addiction professionals who published a statement about the Kishline incident [15] stating that “the approach represented by Alcoholics Anonymous and that represented by Moderation Management are both needed.”

Some fine writings by this man directly from his website:

Quote:
The Benefits of Alcohol

Journal Articles and Book Chapters
•Peele, S. (1993), The conflict between public health goals and the temperance mentality. American Journal of Public Health, 83, 805-810.
•Peele, S. & A. Brodsky (1996), The antidote to alcohol abuse: Sensible drinking messages. In Wine in Context: Nutrition, Physiology, Policy, Davis, CA: American Society for Enology and Viticulture, pp. 66-70.
•Peele, S. (1999), Introduction. In S. Peele & M. Grant (Eds.), Alcohol and pleasure: A health perspective, Philadelphia, PA: Brunner/Mazel, pp. 1-7.
•Peele, S. (1999), Promoting positive drinking: Alcohol, necessary evil or positive good? In: S. Peele & M. Grant (Eds.), Alcohol and pleasure: A health perspective, Philadelphia: Brunner/Mazel, pp. 375-389.
•Peele, S., & A. Brodsky (2000), Exploring psychological benefits associated with moderate alcohol use: A necessary corrective to assessments of drinking outcomes? Drug and Alcohol Dependence, 60, 221-247.

Magazine Articles
•Peele, S. (1996), Should physicians recommend alcohol to their patients? Priorities, 8(1), 24-29.
•Peele, S. (1999, October), Bottle battle: The latest fight over wine labels is part of the ongoing struggle between wets and drys. Reason, pp. 52-54.

Newspaper Articles
•Peele, S. (1998, July), Alcoholism and the elderly — The new epidemic? The Star Ledger (Newark), July 29, p. A19.
•Peele, S. (2010), Alcohol — the good side. Los Angeles Times, July 21, 2010, A17.
•Peele, S. (2011), **A Toast **to Your Health. Warning: Alcohol may increase your life expectancy and reduce dementia. Wall Street Journal, February 2, 2011.

Letters to the Editor
•Peele, S. (2001), American Heart Association advisory, “Wine and Your Heart,” is not science-based. Circulation, 104, e73.

Stanton’s Blog
•We Don’t Believe Alcohol’s Good For You! August 19, 2010.
•The Hidden Health Benefits of Alcohol? August 16, 2010.
 
CopticChristian said:
Johnny,

Where someone meets is not relevant to what they teach and believe nor is it de facto evidence of approval. Look at the resistance from the disciples of the 12 step religion of AA. The media message of the disease model is overwhelmingly accepted and if you did not know any better would believe that there was efficacy beyond 10%. No one however takes the time to investigate the truth about addiction. Instead we hear parroted the passages from the Big Book of the 12 step religion of AA. The disease model is accepted hook line and sinker without questioning it. Hardly anyone knows about the twelve and twelve and the idea that Gluttony is a sin that needs to be addressed and that Gluttony is in fact at the heart of the

sin of addiction.
Click to expand...
If you keep saying “sin is addiction” after each post will that make it irrefutably clear to others. It’s odd for you to keep repeating that, which then makes me question your lucidity.

I’ve said numerous times I don’t embrace the disease concept and have trouble with it but you write to me as if this is our first exchange and I don’t like that. Peele seems almost a reverent figure to you and that is getting scary too. I’ve said that addiction carried out is sin. This does not mean people don’t need help dealing with chemicals that alter the mind. Not all can repeat old behaviors and expect balance, to think otherwise is shockingly irresponsible. It may be time to move on.
 
clem456 said:
I attack no one. This is the message you espouse for addicts. You have no shame.

Wikipedia on Peele:

Quote:
Funding

Lindesmith Center (now the Drug Policy Alliance): grant to write an adolescent drug guide (1996).

The **Distilled Spirits Council of the United States **(DISCUS), and the Wine Institute provided unrestricted grants.[12

Lindesmith Center(now the Drug Policy Alliance):

Quote:
The Drug Policy Alliance (DPA) is a New York City-based non-profit organization, led by executive director Ethan Nadelmann, with the **principal goal of ending the American "War on Drugs
Click to expand...
". The stated priorities of the organization are the decriminalization of responsible drug use, the promotion of harm reduction and treatment in response to drug misuse, and the facilitation of open dialog about drugs between youth, parents, and educators.

Mission

"The Drug Policy Alliance envisions a just society in which **the use and regulation of drugs **are grounded in science, compassion, health and human rights, in which **people are no longer punished **for what they put into their own bodies but only for crimes committed against others, and in which the fears, prejudices and punitive prohibitions of today are no more.

Our mission is to advance those policies and attitudes that best reduce the **harms of **both drug misuse and drug prohibition, and to promote the sovereignty of individuals over their minds and bodies."[3]

Quote:
The **Distilled Spirits Council of the United States **(DISCUS) is a national trade association **representing producers and marketers of distilled spirits **sold in the United States. DISCUS was formed in 1973 by the merger of three organizations (the Bourbon Institute, the Distilled Spirits Institute, and the Licensed Beverage Industries, Inc.) that had been in existence for decades

Quote:
Peele supported Moderation Management founder Audrey Kishline, who also subscribed to the belief that addiction is not a disease.[13] **After giving up her own attempts at moderation **to seek help with AA, Kishline was convicted of killing a father and his 12-year-old daughter while driving under the influence of alcohol.[14] This was widely claimed to invalidate Kishline’s position and by association, Peele’s. Peele was one of 34 addiction professionals who published a statement about the Kishline incident [15] stating that “the approach represented by Alcoholics Anonymous and that represented by Moderation Management are both needed.”

Some fine writings by this man directly from his website:

Quote:
The Benefits of Alcohol

Journal Articles and Book Chapters
•Peele, S. (1993), The conflict between public health goals and the temperance mentality. American Journal of Public Health, 83, 805-810.
•Peele, S. & A. Brodsky (1996), The antidote to alcohol abuse: Sensible drinking messages. In Wine in Context: Nutrition, Physiology, Policy, Davis, CA: American Society for Enology and Viticulture, pp. 66-70.
•Peele, S. (1999), Introduction. In S. Peele & M. Grant (Eds.), Alcohol and pleasure: A health perspective, Philadelphia, PA: Brunner/Mazel, pp. 1-7.
•Peele, S. (1999), Promoting positive drinking: Alcohol, necessary evil or positive good? In: S. Peele & M. Grant (Eds.), Alcohol and pleasure: A health perspective, Philadelphia: Brunner/Mazel, pp. 375-389.
•Peele, S., & A. Brodsky (2000), Exploring psychological benefits associated with moderate alcohol use: A necessary corrective to assessments of drinking outcomes? Drug and Alcohol Dependence, 60, 221-247.

Magazine Articles
•Peele, S. (1996), Should physicians recommend alcohol to their patients? Priorities, 8(1), 24-29.
•Peele, S. (1999, October), Bottle battle: The latest fight over wine labels is part of the ongoing struggle between wets and drys. Reason, pp. 52-54.

Newspaper Articles
•Peele, S. (1998, July), Alcoholism and the elderly — The new epidemic? The Star Ledger (Newark), July 29, p. A19.
•Peele, S. (2010), Alcohol — the good side. Los Angeles Times, July 21, 2010, A17.
•Peele, S. (2011), **A Toast **to Your Health. Warning: Alcohol may increase your life expectancy and reduce dementia. Wall Street Journal, February 2, 2011.

Letters to the Editor
•Peele, S. (2001), American Heart Association advisory, “Wine and Your Heart,” is not science-based. Circulation, 104, e73.

Stanton’s Blog
•We Don’t Believe Alcohol’s Good For You! August 19, 2010.
•The Hidden Health Benefits of Alcohol? August 16, 2010.

Johnny,

And this proves what? All I asked for was one scientific study that proves that the religion of 12 steps/AA has a success rate greater than 10% or doing nothing.
 
johnnyjones said:
If you keep saying “sin is addiction” after each post will that make it irrefutably clear to others. It’s odd for you to keep repeating that, which then makes me question your lucidity.

I’ve said numerous times I don’t embrace the disease concept and have trouble with it but you write to me as if this is our first exchange and I don’t like that. Peele seems almost a reverent figure to you and that is getting scary too. I’ve said that addiction carried out is sin. This does not mean people don’t need help dealing with chemicals that alter the mind. Not all can repeat old behaviors and expect balance, to think otherwise is shockingly irresponsible. It may be time to move on.
Click to expand...
Johnny,
Re: Split: If you are addicted, is it a sin?
Click to expand...
The OP states this. I believe that to keep the thread posting relevant I should register an opinion with the OP. The OP asks “if you are addicted, is it a sin?” I have kept my postings relevant to the OP and answered the question in the affirmative…If you and others see it otherwise then that is your perogative. My lucidity? Are you aware that the Moderators view to see if the thread is following the original question or veering. You can see it has veered and all I have done is point it in the direction of the question answered. My lucidity? Pretty interesting.

Gluttony is a sin.

Gluttony can lead to addiction.

If you are addicted is it a sin, more likely than not and it is a far cry from a disease which it is not and never has been…so as the OP asks…with or without my lucidity

Addiction is sin
 
CopticChristian said:
Johnny,

The OP states this. I believe that to keep the thread posting relevant I should register an opinion with the OP. The OP asks “if you are addicted, is it a sin?” I have kept my postings relevant to the OP and answered the question in the affirmative…If you and others see it otherwise then that is your perogative. My lucidity? Are you aware that the Moderators view to see if the thread is following the original question or veering. You can see it has veered and all I have done is point it in the direction of the question answered. My lucidity? Pretty interesting.

Gluttony is a sin.

Gluttony can lead to addiction.

If you are addicted is it a sin, more likely than not and it is a far cry from a disease which it is not and never has been…so as the OP asks…with or without my lucidity

Addiction is sin
Click to expand...
You actually wrote it again. I thought i could develop a kinship of sorts with you but your not hearing me. I’ve expressed my point. I will continue helping the sinning drunk or drug addict. God bless.
 
CopticChristian said:
Johnny,

And this proves what? All I asked for was one scientific study that proves that the religion of 12 steps/AA has a success rate greater than 10% or doing nothing.
Click to expand...
I’m not Johnny.
We’re talking about addiction and this is the “research” you are espousing:

Wikipedia on Peele:

Quote:
Funding

Lindesmith Center (now the Drug Policy Alliance): grant to write an adolescent drug guide (1996).

The Distilled Spirits Council of the United States (DISCUS), and the Wine Institute provided unrestricted grants.[12

Lindesmith Center(now the Drug Policy Alliance):

Quote:
The Drug Policy Alliance (DPA) is a New York City-based non-profit organization, led by executive director Ethan Nadelmann, with the principal goal of ending the American “War on Drugs”. The stated priorities of the organization are the decriminalization of responsible drug use, the promotion of harm reduction and treatment in response to drug misuse, and the facilitation of open dialog about drugs between youth, parents, and educators.

Mission

"The Drug Policy Alliance envisions a just society in which the use and regulation of drugs are grounded in science, compassion, health and human rights, in which people are no longer punished for what they put into their own bodies but only for crimes committed against others, and in which the fears, prejudices and punitive prohibitions of today are no more.

Our mission is to advance those policies and attitudes that best reduce the harms of both drug misuse and drug prohibition, and to promote the sovereignty of individuals over their minds and bodies."[3]

Quote:
The Distilled Spirits Council of the United States (DISCUS) is a national trade association representing producers and marketers of distilled spirits sold in the United States. DISCUS was formed in 1973 by the merger of three organizations (the Bourbon Institute, the Distilled Spirits Institute, and the Licensed Beverage Industries, Inc.) that had been in existence for decades

Quote:
Peele supported Moderation Management founder Audrey Kishline, who also subscribed to the belief that addiction is not a disease.[13] After giving up her own attempts at moderation to seek help with AA, Kishline was convicted of killing a father and his 12-year-old daughter while driving under the influence of alcohol.[14] This was widely claimed to invalidate Kishline’s position and by association, Peele’s. Peele was one of 34 addiction professionals who published a statement about the Kishline incident [15] stating that “the approach represented by Alcoholics Anonymous and that represented by Moderation Management are both needed.”

Some fine writings by this man directly from his website:

Quote:
The Benefits of Alcohol

Journal Articles and Book Chapters
•Peele, S. (1993), The conflict between public health goals and the temperance mentality. American Journal of Public Health, 83, 805-810.
•Peele, S. & A. Brodsky (1996), The antidote to alcohol abuse: Sensible drinking messages. In Wine in Context: Nutrition, Physiology, Policy, Davis, CA: American Society for Enology and Viticulture, pp. 66-70.
•Peele, S. (1999), Introduction. In S. Peele & M. Grant (Eds.), Alcohol and pleasure: A health perspective, Philadelphia, PA: Brunner/Mazel, pp. 1-7.
•Peele, S. (1999), Promoting positive drinking: Alcohol, necessary evil or positive good? In: S. Peele & M. Grant (Eds.), Alcohol and pleasure: A health perspective, Philadelphia: Brunner/Mazel, pp. 375-389.
•Peele, S., & A. Brodsky (2000), Exploring psychological benefits associated with moderate alcohol use: A necessary corrective to assessments of drinking outcomes? Drug and Alcohol Dependence, 60, 221-247.

Magazine Articles
•Peele, S. (1996), Should physicians recommend alcohol to their patients? Priorities, 8(1), 24-29.
•Peele, S. (1999, October), Bottle battle: The latest fight over wine labels is part of the ongoing struggle between wets and drys. Reason, pp. 52-54.

Newspaper Articles
•Peele, S. (1998, July), Alcoholism and the elderly — The new epidemic? The Star Ledger (Newark), July 29, p. A19.
•Peele, S. (2010), Alcohol — the good side. Los Angeles Times, July 21, 2010, A17.
•Peele, S. (2011), A Toast to Your Health. Warning: Alcohol may increase your life expectancy and reduce dementia. Wall Street Journal, February 2, 2011.

Letters to the Editor
•Peele, S. (2001), American Heart Association advisory, “Wine and Your Heart,” is not science-based. Circulation, 104, e73.

Stanton’s Blog
•We Don’t Believe Alcohol’s Good For You! August 19, 2010.
•The Hidden Health Benefits of Alcohol? August 16, 2010.
 
clem456 said:
I’m not Johnny.
We’re talking about addiction and this is the “research” you are espousing:

Wikipedia on Peele:

Quote:
Funding

Lindesmith Center (now the Drug Policy Alliance): grant to write an adolescent drug guide (1996).

The Distilled Spirits Council of the United States (DISCUS), and the Wine Institute provided unrestricted grants.[12

Lindesmith Center(now the Drug Policy Alliance):

Quote:
The Drug Policy Alliance (DPA) is a New York City-based non-profit organization, led by executive director Ethan Nadelmann, with the principal goal of ending the American “War on Drugs”. The stated priorities of the organization are the decriminalization of responsible drug use, the promotion of harm reduction and treatment in response to drug misuse, and the facilitation of open dialog about drugs between youth, parents, and educators.

Mission

"The Drug Policy Alliance envisions a just society in which the use and regulation of drugs are grounded in science, compassion, health and human rights, in which people are no longer punished for what they put into their own bodies but only for crimes committed against others, and in which the fears, prejudices and punitive prohibitions of today are no more.

Our mission is to advance those policies and attitudes that best reduce the harms of both drug misuse and drug prohibition, and to promote the sovereignty of individuals over their minds and bodies."[3]

Quote:
The Distilled Spirits Council of the United States (DISCUS) is a national trade association representing producers and marketers of distilled spirits sold in the United States. DISCUS was formed in 1973 by the merger of three organizations (the Bourbon Institute, the Distilled Spirits Institute, and the Licensed Beverage Industries, Inc.) that had been in existence for decades

Quote:
Peele supported Moderation Management founder Audrey Kishline, who also subscribed to the belief that addiction is not a disease.[13] After giving up her own attempts at moderation to seek help with AA, Kishline was convicted of killing a father and his 12-year-old daughter while driving under the influence of alcohol.[14] This was widely claimed to invalidate Kishline’s position and by association, Peele’s. Peele was one of 34 addiction professionals who published a statement about the Kishline incident [15] stating that “the approach represented by Alcoholics Anonymous and that represented by Moderation Management are both needed.”

Some fine writings by this man directly from his website:

Quote:
The Benefits of Alcohol

Journal Articles and Book Chapters
•Peele, S. (1993), The conflict between public health goals and the temperance mentality. American Journal of Public Health, 83, 805-810.
•Peele, S. & A. Brodsky (1996), The antidote to alcohol abuse: Sensible drinking messages. In Wine in Context: Nutrition, Physiology, Policy, Davis, CA: American Society for Enology and Viticulture, pp. 66-70.
•Peele, S. (1999), Introduction. In S. Peele & M. Grant (Eds.), Alcohol and pleasure: A health perspective, Philadelphia, PA: Brunner/Mazel, pp. 1-7.
•Peele, S. (1999), Promoting positive drinking: Alcohol, necessary evil or positive good? In: S. Peele & M. Grant (Eds.), Alcohol and pleasure: A health perspective, Philadelphia: Brunner/Mazel, pp. 375-389.
•Peele, S., & A. Brodsky (2000), Exploring psychological benefits associated with moderate alcohol use: A necessary corrective to assessments of drinking outcomes? Drug and Alcohol Dependence, 60, 221-247.

Magazine Articles
•Peele, S. (1996), Should physicians recommend alcohol to their patients? Priorities, 8(1), 24-29.
•Peele, S. (1999, October), Bottle battle: The latest fight over wine labels is part of the ongoing struggle between wets and drys. Reason, pp. 52-54.

Newspaper Articles
•Peele, S. (1998, July), Alcoholism and the elderly — The new epidemic? The Star Ledger (Newark), July 29, p. A19.
•Peele, S. (2010), Alcohol — the good side. Los Angeles Times, July 21, 2010, A17.
•Peele, S. (2011), A Toast to Your Health. Warning: Alcohol may increase your life expectancy and reduce dementia. Wall Street Journal, February 2, 2011.

Letters to the Editor
•Peele, S. (2001), American Heart Association advisory, “Wine and Your Heart,” is not science-based. Circulation, 104, e73.

Stanton’s Blog
•We Don’t Believe Alcohol’s Good For You! August 19, 2010.
•The Hidden Health Benefits of Alcohol? August 16, 2010.
Click to expand...
Keep posting the truth. 👍
 
clem456 said:
I’m not Johnny.
We’re talking about addiction and this is the “research” you are espousing:

Wikipedia on Peele:

Quote:
Funding

Lindesmith Center (now the Drug Policy Alliance): grant to write an adolescent drug guide (1996).

The Distilled Spirits Council of the United States (DISCUS), and the Wine Institute provided unrestricted grants.[12

Lindesmith Center(now the Drug Policy Alliance):

Quote:
The Drug Policy Alliance (DPA) is a New York City-based non-profit organization, led by executive director Ethan Nadelmann, with the principal goal of ending the American “War on Drugs”. The stated priorities of the organization are the decriminalization of responsible drug use, the promotion of harm reduction and treatment in response to drug misuse, and the facilitation of open dialog about drugs between youth, parents, and educators.

Mission

"The Drug Policy Alliance envisions a just society in which the use and regulation of drugs are grounded in science, compassion, health and human rights, in which people are no longer punished for what they put into their own bodies but only for crimes committed against others, and in which the fears, prejudices and punitive prohibitions of today are no more.

Our mission is to advance those policies and attitudes that best reduce the harms of both drug misuse and drug prohibition, and to promote the sovereignty of individuals over their minds and bodies."[3]

Quote:
The Distilled Spirits Council of the United States (DISCUS) is a national trade association representing producers and marketers of distilled spirits sold in the United States. DISCUS was formed in 1973 by the merger of three organizations (the Bourbon Institute, the Distilled Spirits Institute, and the Licensed Beverage Industries, Inc.) that had been in existence for decades

Quote:
Peele supported Moderation Management founder Audrey Kishline, who also subscribed to the belief that addiction is not a disease.[13] After giving up her own attempts at moderation to seek help with AA, Kishline was convicted of killing a father and his 12-year-old daughter while driving under the influence of alcohol.[14] This was widely claimed to invalidate Kishline’s position and by association, Peele’s. Peele was one of 34 addiction professionals who published a statement about the Kishline incident [15] stating that “the approach represented by Alcoholics Anonymous and that represented by Moderation Management are both needed.”

Some fine writings by this man directly from his website:

Quote:
The Benefits of Alcohol

Magazine Articles
•Peele, S. (1996), Should physicians recommend alcohol to their patients? Priorities, 8(1), 24-29.
•Peele, S. (1999, October), Bottle battle: The latest fight over wine labels is part of the ongoing struggle between wets and drys. Reason, pp. 52-54.

Newspaper Articles
•Peele, S. (1998, July), Alcoholism and the elderly — The new epidemic? The Star Ledger (Newark), July 29, p. A19.
•Peele, S. (2010), Alcohol — the good side. Los Angeles Times, July 21, 2010, A17.
•Peele, S. (2011), A Toast to Your Health. Warning: Alcohol may increase your life expectancy and reduce dementia. Wall Street Journal, February 2, 2011.

Letters to the Editor
•Peele, S. (2001), American Heart Association advisory, “Wine and Your Heart,” is not science-based. Circulation, 104, e73.

Stanton’s Blog
•We Don’t Believe Alcohol’s Good For You! August 19, 2010.
•The Hidden Health Benefits of Alcohol? August 16, 2010.
Click to expand...
Clem,

I have the book The Truth About Addiction…are you saying that each chapter cites these studies or you are citing works written by Peele? Here is support with references as to why addiction is not a disease. Are you citing random writings or references related to a topic?

Reading from The Truth About Addiction and Recovery: Why It Doesn’t Make Sense to Call Addiction a “Disease”
  1. S. Peele, “Second Thoughts About a Gene for Alcoholism,” The Atlantic, August 1990, pp. 52–58.
  2. D. Cahalan and R. Room, Problem Drinking Among American Men (New Brunswick, N. J.: Rutgers Center of Alcohol Studies, 1974); B. A. Christiansen and M.S. Goldman, “Alcohol-related Expectancies Versus Demographic/Background Variables in the Prediction of Adolescent Drinking,” Journal of Consulting and Clinical Psychology 51 (1983): 249–57.
  3. S. A. Brown, M. S. Goldman, and B. A. Christiansen, “Do Alcohol Expectancies Mediate Drinking Patterns of Adults?” Journal of Consulting and Clinical Psychology 53 (1985): 512–19; G. A. Marlatt, “Alcohol, the Magic Elixir: Stress, Expectancy, and the Transformation of Emotional States,” in E. Gottheil, K. A. Druley, S. Pashko, and S. Weinstein, eds., Stress and Addiction (New York: Brunner/Mazel, 1987), pp. 302–22.
  4. S. Schachter, “Pharmacological and Psychological Determinants of Smoking,” Annals of Internal Medicine 8811978): 104–14.
  5. G. Bigelow, I. A. Liebson, and R. Griffiths, “Alcoholic Drinking: Suppression by a Brief Time-out Procedure,” Behavior Research and Therapy 12 (1974): 107–115.
  6. K M. Fillmore, “Relationships Between Specific Drinking Problems in Early Adulthood and Middle Age: An Exploratory 20-Year Follow-up Study,” Journal of Studies on Alcohol 36 (1975): 882–907.
  7. J. P. Pierce, M. C. Fiore, T. E. Novotny, E. J. Hatziandreu, and R. M. Davis, “Trends in Cigarette Smoking in the United States: Educational Differences Are Increasing,” Journal of the American Medical Association 261 (1989): 56–60; U. S. Department of Health, Education, and Welfare, The Smoking Digest: Progress Report and a Nation Kicking the Habit (Washington, D. C.: U. S. Department of Health, Education, and Welfare, 1977).
  8. W. R. Miller and R. K. Hester, “The Effectiveness of Alcoholism Treatment: What Research Reveals,” in W. R. Miller and N. K. Heather, eds., Treating Addictive Behaviors: Processes of Change (New York: Plenum, 1986), pp. 121–74.
  9. J. M. Brandsma, M. C. Maultsby, and R. J. Welsh, The Outpatient Treatment of Alcoholism: A Review and Comparative Study (Baltimore, Md.: University Park Press, 1980); K. S. Ditman, G. G. Crawford, E. W. Forgy, H. Moskowitz, and C. MacAndrew, “A Controlled Experiment on the Use of Court Probation for Drunk Arrests,” American Journal of Psychiatry 124 (1967): 160–63; P. M. Salzberg and C. L. Klingberg, “The Effectiveness of Deferred Prosecution for Driving While Intoxicated,” Journal of Studies on Alcohol 44 (1983): 299–306.
  10. G. E. Vaillant, The Natural History of Alcoholism: Causes, Patterns, and Paths to Recovery (Cambridge,
    Mass.: Harvard University Press, 1983).
  11. E. Gordis, “Accessible and Affordable Health Care for Alcoholism and Related Problems: Strategies for
    Cost Containment,” JournaI of Studies on Alcohol 48 (1987): 582.
  12. Vaillant, Natural History of Alcoholism, p. 284.
  13. Ibid., p. 316.
  14. Ibid., p. 293.
  15. Miller and Hester, “Effectiveness of Alcoholism Treatment,” p. 136.
  16. S. Peele, Diseasing of America: Addiction Treatment Out of Control (Lexington, Mass.: Lexington, 1989), pp. 194–95.
  17. D. R. Rudy, Becoming Alcoholic: Alcoholics Anonymous and the Reality of Alcoholism (Carbondale, Ill.: Southern Illinois University Press, 1986), p. 38.
  18. Ibid., p. 89.
  19. J. Durso, “Gooden Is Focus of Concern,” New York Times, June 26, 1987, pp. B11–B12.
  20. Richard Weedman, quoted in M. Worden, “Adolescent Treatment on the Hot Seat,” U. S. Journal of Drug and Alcohol Dependence, June 1985, p. 14.
  21. G. B. Melton and H. A. Davidson, “Child Protection and Society: When Should the State Intervene?” American Psychologist 42 (1987): 174.
  22. R. Regan, “In Short/Football,” New York Times Book Review, October 7, 1990, p. 18.
  23. R. L. Bangert-Drowns, “The Effects of School-based Substance Abuse Education—A Meta-Analysis,” Journal of Drug Education 18 (1988): 243–64; M. D. Newcomb and P. M. Bentler, “Substance Use and Abuse Among Children and Teenagers,” American Psychologist 44 (1989): 242–48; N. S. Tobler, “MetaAnalysis of 143 Adolescent Drug Prevention Programs: Quantitative Outcome Results of Program Participants Compared to a Control or Comparison
    Group,” Journal of Drug Issues 16 (1986): 537–67.
  24. This organization has been known as the National Council on Alcoholism (NCA) for most of its life. The NCA began as the National Committee for Education on Alcoholism in 1944, but changed its name in the early 1950s. The NCA’s primary focus has always been alcoholism. However, in 1990, in order to gain greater credibility in the addiction field, the NCA renamed itself the National Council on Alcoholism and Drug Dependence (NCADD). See B. H. Johnson, “The Alcoholism Movement in America: A Study in Cultural Innovation,” doctoral dissertation, University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign, 1973; M. E. Lender and J. K. Martin, Drinking in America: A History (New York: Free Press, 1982).
  25. Miller and Hester, “Effectiveness of Alcoholism Treatment,” p. 122.
  26. Gordis, “Accessible and Affordable Health Care,” p. 582.
  27. “(name removed by moderator)atient Psych Rates Zoom,” Health Care Competition Week, 24, 1989, p. 2.
  28. E. Goodman, “Do Our Drug Treatment Programs Label Patients as Losers?” Boston Globe syndicated column, September 19, 1990.
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CopticChristian said:
Christ,

This is a report of a study. I have to read the study. Do you know where it can be read. This is second hand information.
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No I don’t. You can research that. I’m not interested in the scientific data, you are. At least you have something to go with. By the way, the fact that AA is Alcoholics Anonymous may have a lot to do with the lack of studies?
 
CopticChristian said:
Edmudus,

I am not suggesting condemnation, only a reasonable approach to the understanding of reality. The Church does not condemn the Jehovah Witness or Mormons.

I realize that you cannot provide a single authoratative reference for acceptance of AA by the Church. All I ever asked for was one single scientific reference for the efficacy of the religion of 12 steps/AA that shows that there is better than a 10% success rate that equates to doing nothing.
…
<>
…
Addiction is sin requiring salvation…
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Thankyou for the reply, Coptic. I am having a Sunday away from the computer. Monday then is going to be busy, but I hope to make some response. I can’t promise anything, however - but I’ll try to fit it in. I won’t be addressing the effectiveness of AA vs non-AA, as I don’t want to buy into that argument, but will attempt to address (briefly) your argument from Catholic sources (and the US Supreme Court) 12 step programs as a “religion”, and how that affects us as Christians.

🙂

Edmundus
 
Christmastwin said:
No I don’t. You can research that. I’m not interested in the scientific data, you are. At least you have something to go with. By the way, the fact that AA is Alcoholics Anonymous may have a lot to do with the lack of studies?
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Christ,

That is a nice try. Anonymous therefore not statistics are available.
The Harvard Mental Health Letter, from The Harvard Medical School, stated quite plainly:
On their own
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There is a high rate of recovery among alcoholics and addicts, treated and untreated. According to one estimate, heroin addicts break the habit in an average of 11 years. Another estimate is that at least 50% of alcoholics eventually free themselves although only 10% are ever treated. One recent study found that 80% of all alcoholics who recover for a year or more do so on their own, some after being unsuccessfully treated. When a group of these self-treated alcoholics was interviewed, 57% said they simply decided that alcohol was bad for them. Twenty-nine percent said health problems, frightening experiences, accidents, or blackouts persuaded them to quit. Others used such phrases as “Things were building up” or “I was sick and tired of it.” Support from a husband or wife was important in sustaining the resolution.
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Treatment of Drug Abuse and Addiction — Part III, The Harvard Mental Health Letter, Volume 12, Number 4, October 1995, page 3.
(See Aug. (Part I), Sept. (Part II), Oct. 1995 (Part III).)
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So much for the sayings that “Everybody needs a support group” and “Nobody can do it alone”. Most successful people do.
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The National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism of the National Institutes of Health, performed the 2001-2002 National Epidemiologic Survey on Alcohol and Related Conditions. For it, they interviewed over 43,000 people. Using the criteria for alcohol dependence found in the DSM-IV, they found:
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“About 75 percent of persons who recover from alcohol dependence do so without seeking any kind of help, including specialty alcohol (rehab) programs and AA. Only 13 percent of people with alcohol dependence ever receive specialty alcohol treatment.”
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A number of studies have found that a small percentage of alcoholics improve to the point of remission of problems associated with alcohol consumption. Bailey and Stewart (235) interviewed alcoholics after three years without treatment and found that about 27 percent of the former patients denied alcoholism. Cahalan (268) in a national drinking practices study noted that drinking problems decrease in men after age 50 and the amount of alcohol consumed also decreases. Cahalan, Cisin, and Crossley (11) in another national survey of drinking practices found that about one-third more individuals had problem drinking in a period before their three-year study period than during the study period itself, suggesting a tendency toward spontaneous remission of drinking problems. Goodwin, Crane, and Guze (269) found that on an eight-year follow-up with no treatment about 18 percent of the alcoholic felons had been abstinent for at least two years. Lemere (238) reported long-term abstinence in 11 percent of untreated alcoholics over an unspecified interval. Kendall and Staton (236) reported 15 percent abstinence in untreated alcoholics after a seven-year follow-up. Kissin, Platz, and Su (203) reported a 4 percent one-year improvement rate in untreated lower class alcoholics. Imber et al. (10) described a follow-up of 58 alcoholics who received no treatment for their alcoholism. It was noted that the rate of abstinence was 15 percent at one year and 11 percent after three years.
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Code: 
  In sum, the preponderance of these studies suggests that a spontaneous remission rate for alcoholism of at least one-year duration is about 4-18 percent. Successful treatment would, therefore, have to produce rates of improvement significantly above this probable range of spontaneous remission.
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  1. Imber, S., Schultz, E., Funderburk, F., Allen, R. and Flamer, R. The Fate of the Untreated Alcoholic. J. Nerv and Ment. Dis., 1976, 162:238-247.
  2. Cahalan, D., Cisin, I. H. and Crossley, H. M. American Drinking Practices: A National Survey of Drinking Behavior and Attitudes. New Brunswick, Rutgers Center for Alcohol Studies, 1974.
  3. Kissin, B., Platz, A. and Su, W. H. Social and Psychological Factors in the Treatment of Chronic Alcoholics. J. Psychiat. Res., 1970, 8:13-27.
  4. Bailey, M. B. and Stewart, S. Normal Drinking by Persons Reporting Previous Problem Drinking. Quart. J. Stud. Alc., 1967, 28:305-315.
  5. Kendall, R. E. and Staton, M. C. The Fate of Untreated Alcoholics. Quart. J. Stud. Alc., 1966, 27:30-41.
  6. Lemere, F. What Happens to Alcoholics. Amer. J. Psychiat., 1953, 109:674-675.
  7. Cahalan, D. Problem Drinkers: A National Survey, San Francisco, Jossey-Bass, 1970
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.

Stanton Peele, PhD authored none of this
 
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