SPLIT: Is Confession not necessary?

[PJM]

Originally Posted by ralphy
Salvation is redemption. Ralph

& the reply

Wrong again.

**Can the world be ready for this:shrug:

I agree with Ralph!**

IF you think he and I are wrong, please pull out your dictionary and look up

“Redeemption” = a done deal

“Salvation”= a process

Way to go Ralph:tiphat:

Love and prayers,

 

[Bruno_Schulz]

**

Only John was at the foot of the cross.

That’s a very good post dear! thanks for reminding us!
And therefore I often reminded my “clients” on the gospel of John.

Well - many say; this was another John, another John again in revelation

I thinks it was the one and only John for the three.

But however:
Aren’t we one corps in Jesus Christ?!
Does it really matter who is who?

Many Saints are mixed up. What remains forever, is the word of God.**

 

[sauce]

A process is a process. A done deal is a done deal.

I wonder what happens when you get lost in the process.

Since theology is faith seeking understanding, it isn’t unusual for the Catholic Church to have a theology for the Redemption develop over the centuries. Their understanding of the Redemption which Christ accomplished for us is key in their teaching us to participate in that redemption. By uniting our sufferings with His.

Accepting Jesus as Lord and Savior gets us saved.

In the coupon world I might say to someone, “Here, save this. You can redeem it at the store.”

Anyway, this discussion is fun.

Best wishes to all.

 

[ralphy]

Christ redeemed all men … He shed His blood for ALL sin past, present, and future.
You would agree that not all men are saved, iow … not all men will go to heaven.

redeemed and saved … vs … redeemed and not saved.

what is the difference between these two groups?
Is it something that Jesus did or didn’t do?
Or is it something the saved or unsaved did or did not do?

michel

Jesus shed His blood for all mankind on the cross of Calvary, He paid the full price for our redemption. It is up to each one, after hearing the gospel of salvation , to make the choice of accepting or rejecting this Gift of salvation. We are redeemed by His blood, “without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sin”.

 

[ralphy]

Hi Ralph, If I do will you believe?

Before proceeding, if someone told you not to jump of the top of the Sears Tower, whould he have to tell you more than once

Let’s began by understanding that Jesus is God. God is all “everything Good” and everything good to the highest perfection. So God knows all, and has unlimited powers to do what ever He Wills. Agreed?

Why is it Ralph that you and me, in fact all of humanity have a intellect, a mind, a freewill, the ability to solve problems, to create art, to love and to hate. So Ralph show me your intellect. How big, wide, deep, long is it? What shape is it? What color is it? How much does it weigh?

You can’t? Why not? Because these are Spiritual attributes. We can prvoe they exist, but we cannot quantify them.

I’m going out the limb here, but I’ll assume your a Chrsitian, or at least someone who recogonizes a “Higher Power?” So, why is humanity alone is blessed with these “gitfs” and no other species has them? Is is reasonable to understand that, we have them for at least general reasons and applications, if not specific ones? Yes, this seems to be a logical conclusion. By this I only mean to imply that however we “got these gifts”, one can expect that the “Source (of all good things)” expected them to be used, or why bother giving them to us? Agree?

OK, so lets limit this discussion to “intellect” and “freewill” in that one (at least should)directs the other. Let’s presume that we have an intellect because we are expected to apply it at times, in a specific endeavor. We might term this effort “Common Sense.” (That which is reached by clear and obvious conclusions to exposed facts.)

Now if you were to start a company (perhaps you have?) that you intended to pass on to your family, would it be reasonable to make preperations, plans, decide who you’ll pass on the business to, and make sure that they were trained, prepared and given the anonomy and power to run the company in your absence? This seems like commom sense right?

So Ralph, would a PERFECT, all Knowing, and all Loving God do any less? To say “NO” would be imprudent and lacking common sense. Agreed?

Note carefully Ralph what Jesus who is God is saying and doing.

**I (Jesus, knowing that I shall soon die) will build "my (singular) church (singular) on you Peter Singular? NO! because to do so means that the Church Christ Died to create, would only live a few years longer then He Jesus? Common sense!

Jesus then goes on to say" I (Jesus) give you Peter (only Peter? NO!.. NOT Conceivible!) “The keys to the KINGDOM OF HEAVEN!”

Ralph, would God die, just for Peter? (actually He would have if necessary, but the bible is full of references that He died for ALL) What about the other Apostles, and His Mother, and Lazarus, Martha His dear friends? Would He not wish them to join Him in Heaven? Of course He would, and He most clearly did just that!**

The power “to bind and loose” were common legal Rabbinic Terms enforceable at LAW!

They litterally mean the power of completely independent and unincumbered, governance!

Jesus as God was setting up a “business to save souls” certaintly, he did not intend for it to cease when he and Peter died. Common sense with Biblical and historical evidence support this conclussion. Agreed?

15 "He (Jesus) said to them, “But who do you say that I am?” 16 Simon Peter replied, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” 17 And Jesus answered him, "Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jona! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven. 18 And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it. 19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."/B]

Love and prayers my friend,When Christ went back to heaven He said that He would not leave us alone, but would send the Holy Spirit to lead,guide and direct us in all things and that is exactly what He is doing. I read the bible and I am directed by the Holy Spirit to go to people and tell them about the salvation plan that He has for all mankind. Ralph

 

[cazayoux]

Jesus shed His blood for all mankind on the cross of Calvary, He paid the full price for our redemption. It is up to each one, after hearing the gospel of salvation , to make the choice of accepting or rejecting this Gift of salvation. We are redeemed by His blood, “without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sin”.

Ah … so to be of the ‘redeemed AND saved’ group you have to DO something!!

a work?

1 - hear the gospel of salvation
2 - make the choice of accepting the gift of salvation

So, by your theology, Jesus’ work on the cross is done, but your work is not.
Even though Jesus’ work on the cross is done, there are two things you must DO to be saved.

We agree that Jesus’ work on the cross is finished.

As for our work, there are many things Jesus tells us we must DO to be saved.
The two works you list (1 and 2 above) are not the only things Jesus asked us to DO.

Let me know if you need a list of all that Jesus said we must DO to be saved.

michel

 

[cazayoux]

When Christ went back to heaven He said that He would not leave us alone, but would send the Holy Spirit to lead,guide and direct us in all things and that is exactly what He is doing. I read the bible and I am directed by the Holy Spirit to go to people and tell them about the salvation plan that He has for all mankind. Ralph

A great and wonderful work. Keep it up!
So … for a Christian … what is the pillar and bulwark of the truth?
Where do we go to be sure we know the truth?

Scripture?

michel

 

[ralphy]

Ah … so to be of the ‘redeemed AND saved’ group you have to DO something!!

a work?

1 - hear the gospel of salvation
2 - make the choice of accepting the gift of salvation

So, by your theology, Jesus’ work on the cross is done, but your work is not.
Even though Jesus’ work on the cross is done, there are two things you must DO to be saved.

We agree that Jesus’ work on the cross is finished.

As for our work, there are many things Jesus tells us we must DO to be saved.
The two works you list (1 and 2 above) are not the only things Jesus asked us to DO.

Let me know if you need a list of all that Jesus said we must DO to be saved.

michel

I have a birthday coming up,and possibly I may get a gift, I will accept it if I am offered it, if I have to work for it , it will not be a gift, because I earned it. That is God’s plan of salvation,the work has all been done by Him, He said it is free,accept it my friend. Ralph

 

[cazayoux]

Ah … so to be of the ‘redeemed AND saved’ group you have to DO something!!

a work?

1 - hear the gospel of salvation
2 - make the choice of accepting the gift of salvation

So, by your theology, Jesus’ work on the cross is done, but your work is not.
Even though Jesus’ work on the cross is done, there are two things you must DO to be saved.

We agree that Jesus’ work on the cross is finished.

As for our work, there are many things Jesus tells us we must DO to be saved.
The two works you list (1 and 2 above) are not the only things Jesus asked us to DO.

Let me know if you need a list of all that Jesus said we must DO to be saved.

michel

I have a birthday coming up,and possibly I may get a gift, I will accept it if I am offered it, if I have to work for it , it will not be a gift, because I earned it. That is God’s plan of salvation,the work has all been done by Him, He said it is free,accept it my friend. Ralph

So you’re saying you DON’T have to (1) hear the gospel of salvation or (2) make the choice of accepting the gift of salvation to be saved?

I’m confused.

For your birthday gift … let’s say it is a car. Jesus freely gives you the car … he also tells you that you must use the car to feed the hungry with the car (the free gift).
The manufacturing of the car is finished (by Jesus) … but he’s still asking you to DO something with it.

michel

 

[CentralFLJames]

I have a birthday coming up,and possibly I may get a gift, I will accept it if I am offered it, if I have to work for it , it will not be a gift, because I earned it. That is God’s plan of salvation,the work has all been done by Him, He said it is free,accept it my friend. Ralph

So “it was finished” on the cross and Jesus’ resurrection was not important? How about Jesus teaching for 3 days to those in Hades/prison after he died? How about Jesus appearing to the man witnesses after the resurrection? Why did Jesus come back to earth if it was all finished?

What if somone wants you to make a wish and blow out the candles before you get to eat the cake ralphy? Does that count as work? After you accept the cake don’t you have to eat it too or do you want to both “have your cake and eat it too” at the same time?

It seems to me that even in accepting a gift there is some work involved - you have to use the gift and share it with all the others who came to celebrate with you…

James

 

[sauce]

A great and wonderful work. Keep it up!
So … for a Christian … what is the pillar and bulwark of the truth?
Where do we go to be sure we know the truth?

Scripture?

michel

The authentic Word of God needs an authentic interpreter.

While we’re all waiting around for the Parousia (that’s Rapture in other circles) I’d rather stick to the guys He left in charge: they’re in a direct line of succession.

 

[sauce]

God forbid you get a good job as a free gift. Yikes!

Like they say in the fashion industry, “Work it, Honey!”

 

[sodak]

You surely don’t disbelieve Jesus or God’s Word do you?

*Matthew 16:18
And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it. *

James

I’m still waiting at Ralphy’s answer to this.

 

[ralphy]

So you’re saying you DON’T have to (1) hear the gospel of salvation or (2) make the choice of accepting the gift of salvation to be saved?

I’m confused.

For your birthday gift … let’s say it is a car. Jesus freely gives you the car … he also tells you that you must use the car to feed the hungry with the car (the free gift).
The manufacturing of the car is finished (by Jesus) … but he’s still asking you to DO something with it.

michel

Yes my friend ,you must hear the gospel of salvation (for faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God), after that you either accept the message or reject it, you have that choice. If you accept His offer of salvation, then you should do the work He wants you to do, be a witness for Him. ralph

 

[ralphy]

So you’re saying you DON’T have to (1) hear the gospel of salvation or (2) make the choice of accepting the gift of salvation to be saved?

I’m confused.

For your birthday gift … let’s say it is a car. Jesus freely gives you the car … he also tells you that you must use the car to feed the hungry with the car (the free gift).
The manufacturing of the car is finished (by Jesus) … but he’s still asking you to DO something with it.

michel

Your right,“something with it”, NOT FOR IT.Perfect, now you are getting it right. Ralph

 

[ralphy]

The authentic Word of God needs an authentic interpreter.

While we’re all waiting around for the Parousia (that’s Rapture in other circles) I’d rather stick to the guys He left in charge: they’re in a direct line of succession.

So if they go down the tube, you go with them,right! Put your trust in Christ. Ralph

 

[PJM]

=Iamnotafraid;5018429]It was a slow process. I had to overcome a fair amount of inner fear in challenging myself to question whether or not a God exists, let alone my Christian God.

I worked up the courage, studied my faith and the more I studied, the more my faith dwindled.

In essence, it was the full realization that we are natural animals, living in a natural world, within a natural universe, completely absent of any kind of a supernatural Deity.

I don’t have any faith, as faith is necessary for belief in the absence of evidence. Those days are well behind me.

Friend are you in SALES?

If not you’ve missed your calling.

Anyone who can sell themselves on what you did,well let’s just say you’d make a killin in sales:blush:

Love and prayers,

By the way I too was in sales, and we are the toughest to sell

 

[Iamnotafraid]

Yes my friend ,you must hear the gospel of salvation (for faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God), after that you either accept the message or reject it, you have that choice. If you accept His offer of salvation, then you should do the work He wants you to do, be a witness for Him. ralph

What if someone is severely mentally challenged and cannot understand what is being said?

Hmmm, so your saying that salvation is based upon an intellectual decision. Pity the mentally challenged, the comatose, the severely cognitively impaired, for God does not reach out to them, as they cannot accept or reject the message, as they do not possess any mental capacity to understand it.

 

[cazayoux]

Yes my friend ,you must hear the gospel of salvation (for faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God), after that you either accept the message or reject it, you have that choice. If you accept His offer of salvation, then you should do the work He wants you to do, be a witness for Him. ralph

ahh … so another work is listed

1 - hear the gospel of salvation
2 - accept the message
3 - be a witness for Him

I can list more that Jesus told us to do…

As a Catholic, I believe what the Bible says in terms of what one must do in order to get to Heaven … (you should too)
Have faith (Rom 3:28, John 3:16, 1 John 4:15)
forgive the sins of others (Matt 6:14-15)
care for one’s family (1 Tim 5:8)
feed the hungry, clothe the naked, visit the sick and imprisoned (Matt 25:31-46)
keep the Commandments (Matt 19:17 and 1 John 2:3-4)
love my brother (1 John 2:10)
deny ourselves and pick up our cross daily (Luke 9:23)
do the will of the Father (Matt 7:21)
eat the flesh and drink the blood of the Son of Man (John 6:51-58)
give a return for the talents the Master has given us (Matt 25:14-30)
be baptized (John 3:3-5, 1 Ptr 3:20-21)
we hold fast our confidence and pride in our hope. (Heb 3:6)
confess our sins (1 John 1:9)…
all by the grace of God.

Don’t you see? Catholics don’t believe we work our way to heaven. We believe SCRIPTURE. We believe what we see in James, that faith without works is dead. We believe that if we do not produce good fruit, we will be cut from the vine and thrown in the fire. We believe that GRACE is the free gift from God and that our response to that free gift is FAITH! Catholics believe faith is an ACTION word.

I’m sure you would consider all of the things I list above (referencing scripture) to be WORKS. They are. And the bible tells us we must DO them.

Faith, WORKING, through Love.

See how this one phrase ties it all together?

I wonder if your view of Catholics has changed since you started visiting these boards.
I wonder if you thought when coming here, that you might find that Catholics were ignorant of scripture.
I really would like to know what your expectations were and what you think now.

Cheers, brother!!

michel

 

[cazayoux]

Your right,“something with it”, NOT FOR IT.Perfect, now you are getting it right. Ralph

EXACTLY !!!

Now you understand the Catholic teaching… and SURPRISE … you agree!

michel