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ralphy
Guest
Salvation is redemption. Ralph
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ralphy
Guest
When I found out that I had to come to Christ, repent of my sins and turn to Him for this free gift of salvation and be covered by His blood, I did this and recieved Him as my Lord and Savior. That is when the Holy Spirit came into my soul and Christ came to live within me. I then was scripturally baptised by full immersion.I have peace in my soul now and I am sure ,by God’s word, that I will go to heaven when I die. ralph
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Tomster
Guest
Wrong again.
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Tomster
Guest
Take care that you do not fall.
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CentralFLJames
Guest
No it is not ralphy. We have explained to you multiple times in many different discussions that there is difference.
Redemption is what Jesus made possible through his obedient passion and crucifixation. It is offered to all men - but it does not apply unless one avails themselves of the gift and accepts the gift of graces. But not everyone accepts this gift.
Salvation is what happens to those who accept their gift and then keep this gift by not throwing it away and getting put back into prison for continuing to break the law.
Christ paid our “bail bond” for everyone to get out of prison. But some people want to stay in prison and never leave and some people leave and come back (sometimes over and over again).
James
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Tomster
Guest
James,
It appears that Gnosticism has reared its ugly head again regarding the OSAS crowd.
T
Tomster
Guest
True enough, however . . .
“And Jesus answered him [Peter], blessed art thou, Simon son of Jona; it is not flesh and blood, it is my Father in heaven that has revealed this to thee. And I tell thee in my turn, that thou art Peter, and it is upon this rock that I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it; and I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven; and whatever thou shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever thou shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”
I especially like the “whatever” part.
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edjco
Guest
That was a pretty rude thing to say, Ralph. I don’t normally do this, but perhaps you should visit this website before you judge:
www.stopbaptistpredators.org
Then you said:
“When I found out that I had to come to Christ, repent of my sins and turn to Him for this free gift of salvation and be covered by His blood, I did this and recieved Him as my Lord and Savior. That is when the Holy Spirit came into my soul and Christ came to live within me. I then was scripturally baptised by full immersion.I have peace in my soul now and I am sure ,by God’s word, that I will go to heaven when I die. ralph”
If you are really sure that you will go to Heaven, maybe you should read this:
Philippians 2:12
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Bruno_Schulz
Guest
**“whatever thou shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever thou shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven“
In fact in the protestants Lutheran Bible, same verse in Mt 16,19 and in Mt 18,18 in red. No difference – though a difference in hermeneutics – the way it’s seen, translated, preferred to be understood.
When I was a child, I had a protestant father. I loved the idea not having to go to confession. But he made me to, which I hated, but today I’m thankful he did.
If Salvation would be full redemption, Jesus had not said to St. Peter what he did say, and in promising this to us, Jesus presented to us the sacrament of penance. Protestants know that, but they insist on the protestant way of seeing it – which is wrong, because it’s simply not Jesus aim nor word.
Pope Benedict made just like Pope JP2 ecumenism to his favored aim – to „matter for the boss“. This is a very hard job, for if we look into Christian forums, atheists must have the impression, the two Christian denominations are on civil war.
Any Protestant is highly welcome in catholic forums. I tried same thing and entered protestant forums. Oh – I say – I felt like Lucifer in person.
Surely when arriving in heaven, Christians won’t be asked if they are Catholics or Protestants, but asked; if they heard the unspoiled word of Jesus Christ and lived His way. We all know, Lutherans left the Church Jesus founded – not vice versa.
The reasons Luther had at the time in the 15th century, all have vanished. The errors Luther brought, remained.
Lutherans can’t expect, that we too leave the Church Jesus founded, and enter the seceded, drifted away dissident Church. The Catholic Church however waits with wide open arms and a lot of love, and a lot of good will and continuous work for reunification.
**
In fact in the protestants Lutheran Bible, same verse in Mt 16,19 and in Mt 18,18 in red. No difference – though a difference in hermeneutics – the way it’s seen, translated, preferred to be understood.
When I was a child, I had a protestant father. I loved the idea not having to go to confession. But he made me to, which I hated, but today I’m thankful he did.
If Salvation would be full redemption, Jesus had not said to St. Peter what he did say, and in promising this to us, Jesus presented to us the sacrament of penance. Protestants know that, but they insist on the protestant way of seeing it – which is wrong, because it’s simply not Jesus aim nor word.
Pope Benedict made just like Pope JP2 ecumenism to his favored aim – to „matter for the boss“. This is a very hard job, for if we look into Christian forums, atheists must have the impression, the two Christian denominations are on civil war.
Any Protestant is highly welcome in catholic forums. I tried same thing and entered protestant forums. Oh – I say – I felt like Lucifer in person.
Surely when arriving in heaven, Christians won’t be asked if they are Catholics or Protestants, but asked; if they heard the unspoiled word of Jesus Christ and lived His way. We all know, Lutherans left the Church Jesus founded – not vice versa.
The reasons Luther had at the time in the 15th century, all have vanished. The errors Luther brought, remained.
Lutherans can’t expect, that we too leave the Church Jesus founded, and enter the seceded, drifted away dissident Church. The Catholic Church however waits with wide open arms and a lot of love, and a lot of good will and continuous work for reunification.
**
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CentralFLJames
Guest
Indeed. This OSAS is very bad stuff which does have some of the hallmarks of Gnostic origins. The idea of a magic pass phrase (e.g. “I believe”) that is necessary for salvation as well as the notion of presumed “inner awareness” of the certainty of the state of one’s soul, extreme individualism and severe focus on personal freedoms independent of community and social responsibility are tell-tale signs. So the very fundamentalist Protestant phrase “I am saved” is self-centered rather than Christo-Centered in The Church and is a classic marker for a Gnostic sort of me-ism mentality. The very idea that one can consider themselves “saved” before God gets to judge on the matter is pure arrogance and again is suggestive of an inner awareness of “self” that no true apostolic Christian ever was so arrogant to presume for himself before Luther’s time. We did however hear this same similar arrogance and false Gnostic teaching in the apostolic era - and this frustrated the apostles even then. More in a moment.
What is very diaboloical to me is that Gnostics often claim “on the part of the initiated” to a special knowledge of the truth, a tendency to regard knowledge as superior to faith, and as the special possession of the more enlightened, for ordinary Christians did not possess this secret and higher doctrine. But the truly demonically clever twist that Satan is using in introducing this diabolical is teaching by first bootstrapping it as a new “discovered” secret knowledge (e.g. Luther - 1400 years distant from the apostles) then HIDING it under the illusion of faith and the hubris and certainty of salvation! OMG, OMG - HOW CLEVER! Pure snake oil! Once somone has been fooled into believing this story line and gets intoxicated on the magic ambrosia of OSAS one imagines himself god-like and incapable of ever falling to earth again. But it’s a pure unadulterated ultra-addicting ego-hook. Yet the self suited “saved” emperor in fact wears no clothes and is standing gloriously naked in the full shame and putridity of his post-baptismal grave sins as surely as the leper smells and looks sickly in his sores. Satan is laughing his arse off at the OSAS crowd who can’t see themselves as they really are. He has them exactly where he wants them - content in their grave sins thinking they are saved and too pacified in the certitude of salvation to repent and get forgiven of their sins.
Other markers of Gnostic thought are seen in the the implicit denial of the personality of the Supreme God (who demands holiness as He is holy), and the denial (or abandonment) also of the free will of man. Once one just “surrenders to Jesus” under OSAS (which does sound reasonable) but then is convicted by false doctrines to imagine oneself divorced from personal responsibility one can just “put it on autopilot”. “Jesus saves” and so the OSAS subscriber need not worry in the least about sinning ever again since one’s salvation is all Jesus’ problem and responsibility. If one finds themselves appearing to sin it must mean Jesus was OK with it and its not really sin since “I already be saved”.
Yet another marker of Gnosticism is seen in a syncretistic tendency which combined certain more or less misunderstood Christian doctrines with various elements from oriental, Jewish and other sources. In the case of Protestant OSAS, the “other sources” comes right out of the aether of Luther’s scrupulous and paranoid mind. He just seems to syncretisticly fuse and synthesize hedonistic ideas with orthodox Catholic teaching to just invent stuff that no apostle ever taught. I suspect if we traced the pedigree of the philosophy we would land ourselves in a German Rathskeller with the local color having fun and making merry with the tavern girls as necessary therapy to make it through the work week…
The apostle Paul warns against Gnostic influences a number of times:
They (Corinth) thought themselves “wise,” they were given to disputing, they professed that they “all had knowledge” (1 Cor 8:1), nay, they could “know all mysteries and all knowledge” (1 Cor 13:2); but this knowledge did not edify them, did not build them up, it only puffed them up (1 Cor 8:1); it did not make them sympathetic or tender-hearted toward the weak (1 Cor 8:7-11). This “All of us have knowledge”: is a slogan, similar to 1 Cor 6:12, which reveals the self-image of the Corinthians. This was Gnostic influence even in apostolic times.
Essentially Paul urges Christians to take a communitarian rather than an individualistic view of their Christian freedom. Many decisions that the Gnostics consider pertinent only to their private relationship with God have, in fact, social consequences. Nor can moral decisions be determined by merely theoretical considerations; they must be based on concrete circumstances, specifically on the value and needs of other individuals and on mutual responsibility within the community.
[continued]
James
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CentralFLJames
Guest
[from prior]
There is more apostolic struggle with the Gnostics in other Gospel writings too:
1 Tim 6:20,21 Paul speaks of the “knowledge (the gnosis) which is falsely so called; which some professing have erred concerning the faith.” Again, Luther seems to have found new secret knowledge that The Church never taught for 1500 years.
In the First Epistle of John shows a distinct anti-Gnostic polemical purpose. There is “the spirit of error” (1 Jn 4:6), opposing the Spirit of truth. “Many false prophets are gone out into the world” (1 Jn 4:1), and this from the church itself, “They went out from us (ahem, just like the Protestants did), but they were not of us” (1 Jn 2:19); and these false prophets are distinctly named “the antichrist” (1 Jn 2:22) and “the liar” (same place), and “the deceiver and the antichrist” (2 Jn 1:7). This was Gnosticism.
John refers to his Gnostic opponents’ who use such phrases as “I know God,” “I abide in Christ,” “I am in the light” ("…Jesus is MY personal Lord and Savior"?
). The apostle describes these lofty claims as false, because those who made them possessed neither love nor obedience. Lack of OBEDIENCE to an orthodox standard is a hallmark of Gnostics.
John tells us that the true knowledge of God (1 John 5:20) and communion with Him are attained, not by Gnostic speculation, but by the obedience of faith, the outcome of which is brotherly love and a life in which the Christian walks even as Christ did (1 Jn 2:6). And thus also obedience and brotherly love are the test of the profession which any man may make that he knows God. “Every one also that doeth righteousness is begotten of him,” (1 Jn 2:29); “Whosoever **doeth not righteousness **is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother” (1 Jn 3:10).
Satan has cleverly painted himself in the image of Christ through the toxic illusion of OSAS. He has permitted people to imagine that as long as the cup appears pretty and clean on the outside and imagines itself happy, content and assured of safety by sitting on the shelf of salvation completely filthy on the inside of its unforgiven and unrepented grave sins then it is assured salvation. What a diabolical teaching! Not all Protestant OSASers think this - but many do.
I have terrible worries that there are many many 10’s of millions of Protestants imagining themselves “saved” and who are dieing impenitent and are stunned silly when death removes the veil and they see how filthy they really are in their sins. I can just hear it now from the chain gang: “Yea - I believed your BS when you told me I was saved you #$@*!~& liar!!”.
James
There is more apostolic struggle with the Gnostics in other Gospel writings too:
1 Tim 6:20,21 Paul speaks of the “knowledge (the gnosis) which is falsely so called; which some professing have erred concerning the faith.” Again, Luther seems to have found new secret knowledge that The Church never taught for 1500 years.
In the First Epistle of John shows a distinct anti-Gnostic polemical purpose. There is “the spirit of error” (1 Jn 4:6), opposing the Spirit of truth. “Many false prophets are gone out into the world” (1 Jn 4:1), and this from the church itself, “They went out from us (ahem, just like the Protestants did), but they were not of us” (1 Jn 2:19); and these false prophets are distinctly named “the antichrist” (1 Jn 2:22) and “the liar” (same place), and “the deceiver and the antichrist” (2 Jn 1:7). This was Gnosticism.
John refers to his Gnostic opponents’ who use such phrases as “I know God,” “I abide in Christ,” “I am in the light” ("…Jesus is MY personal Lord and Savior"?
). The apostle describes these lofty claims as false, because those who made them possessed neither love nor obedience. Lack of OBEDIENCE to an orthodox standard is a hallmark of Gnostics.John tells us that the true knowledge of God (1 John 5:20) and communion with Him are attained, not by Gnostic speculation, but by the obedience of faith, the outcome of which is brotherly love and a life in which the Christian walks even as Christ did (1 Jn 2:6). And thus also obedience and brotherly love are the test of the profession which any man may make that he knows God. “Every one also that doeth righteousness is begotten of him,” (1 Jn 2:29); “Whosoever **doeth not righteousness **is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother” (1 Jn 3:10).
Satan has cleverly painted himself in the image of Christ through the toxic illusion of OSAS. He has permitted people to imagine that as long as the cup appears pretty and clean on the outside and imagines itself happy, content and assured of safety by sitting on the shelf of salvation completely filthy on the inside of its unforgiven and unrepented grave sins then it is assured salvation. What a diabolical teaching! Not all Protestant OSASers think this - but many do.
I have terrible worries that there are many many 10’s of millions of Protestants imagining themselves “saved” and who are dieing impenitent and are stunned silly when death removes the veil and they see how filthy they really are in their sins. I can just hear it now from the chain gang: “Yea - I believed your BS when you told me I was saved you #$@*!~& liar!!”.
James
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cazayoux
Guest
Hebrews 3:14
[14] For we share in Christ, if only we hold our first confidence firm to the end,
Why is there an ‘if’ in the text?
You stated ‘by God’s word’ in your comment.
Please share God’s word and how it gives you this surety.
michel
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CentralFLJames
Guest
The IF’s, ANDs & BUTs are just there to confuse and befuddle the nonbelievers and unsaved!
The 32,000+ verses of the bible are just to make it look like salvation takes works and cooperating with God to confound the papists - but the Bible is all reducible to a single salvation slogan “just believe”. Trust me bro - that’s all you have to do then you too can be assured of salvation. LOL
NOT!
James
p.s. any one surprised why there are now as many Protestant denominations as there are verses in the bible?
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cazayoux
Guest
hehehe … thanks for the chuckle.The IF’s, ANDs & BUTs are just there to confuse and befuddle the nonbelievers and unsaved!
The 35,000 verses of the NT are just to make it look like salvation takes works and cooperating with God to confound the papists - but the Bible is all reducible to a single salvation slogan “just believe”. Trust me bro - that’s all you have to do then you too can be assured of salvation. LOL
NOT!
James
michel
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sauce
Guest
You should have no trouble then in picking up your cross daily and following Jesus.
It’s at His request.
It’s at His request.
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ralphy
Guest
As I explained in my former email, I recieved this free gift that Christ offered, I am covered by His blood and therefor I am redeemed. Redemption means having my sins paid for , which they were when I got saved. Ralph
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Iamnotafraid
Guest
Confession isn’t necessary for me.
When I rejected my Christian faith and denied the existence of God.
My faith melted away and so did my guilt, anxiety and shame.
When I rejected my Christian faith and denied the existence of God.
My faith melted away and so did my guilt, anxiety and shame.
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CentralFLJames
Guest
Actually faith is essential to you. Atheists are the most faithful of all people since they have faith in their infallability that they know there is no God and are faithful there is no consequence to being wrong. The anxiety comes again on the back end…
James
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Iamnotafraid
Guest
I
Iamnotafraid
Guest
Your speaking for me? How odd.
I repeat, when I left the Church and realized that God was not real, my anxiety, guilt and shame drifted away as well.
Believe what you want, but don’t pretend that you can speak for me, let alone all of the non-believers in the world.
- Status