SPLIT: Is Confession not necessary?

[Bruno_Schulz]

**

all the apostles and the disciples are dead. That’s system is finished now.

Sorry, but you even far away of Luther.

Never mind. I’m off here and unsubscribe from this thread, as it spins around itself without any result

Salve
Bruno**

 

[Iamnotafraid]

We are born with original sin and the Church teaches the necessity for baptism.

We are not born completely evil - but we most definitely are born with a damaged nature that estranges us from God. Adults dieing without baptism in one of 3 forms (water, by desire or by blood) to our best knowledge go to hell. We hope that unbaptised children dieing before the age of reason are given a special divine mercy since they have no personal sin - but the scriptures are clear about the need for baptism and the need for redemption right out of the womb.

James

You’ve said two different things…

1. we are Satan’s children

1. we most definitely are born with a damaged nature that estranges us from God.

Which does your Church believe?

Which one of your two comments do you subscribe to?

If you don’t believe we are Satans children, then why did you consciously make the decision to write that we are in fact Satans children?

 

[ralphy]

I suggest you read these about the Mystical Body of Christ.

oce.catholic.com/index.php?title=Sanctity

oce.catholic.com/index.php?title=Mystical_Body_of_the_Church

(I looked them up on the search engine on the home page of this site, I typed in Mystical Body of Christ)

Jesus only founded ONE Church, and if you read the above you have learned the four chief marks of the Church, ONE, HOLY, CATHOLIC and APOSTOLIC.

I also suggest you read the following thread.
Post #32 explains it well.
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=319903&page=3

…and as it says, that is just a start.

and of course I know that God, the Holy Spirit inspired holy men to write and compile the Books of the Bible, Sacred Scriptures. In His Church that He founded, we have the Liturgy of the Word and Jesus Himself, Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity, in the Liturgy of the Eucharist.

His Church existed before the Sacred Scriptures were compiled into a Book that we call the Holy Bible.

You want me to read something the Roman catholics have written. That’s like the police force investigating itself, it dosen’t work, like shooting yourself in the foot. Ralph

 

[CentralFLJames]

You’ve said two different things…

Which does your Church believe?

Which one of your two comments do you subscribe to?

If you don’t believe we are Satans children, then why did you consciously make the decision to write that we are in fact Satans children?

No I have not said two different things. You have taken what I have said out of context and dropped others words around those I have spoken. This is a strawman.

You know exactly what I mean. What I have said is that all people have a choice as to who they follow in life - God or Satan. Those that accept God as their father get to live in God’s House. Those that reject God get to live in His prison. The good news is everyone finds a home somewhere.

You have rejected God and unless this changes you will find your place. We only differ on the attributes of what place you will someday call home. You hope for the oblivion of non-existence but scriptures tell us that the immortal soul never ceases to exist and must reside somewhere after it is seperated from the body. For those who reject God this is a place called Hell.

James

 

[cazayoux]

The Catholic Press,Inc. Chicago. Copyright 1957,1955,1950.Imprimatur Samuel Cardinal Stritch, Archbishop of Chicago.August 2,1955. I believe it’s a Douay. Any value that I would seek would be in its words. Ralph.

This is great to read.

Still … I would suggest at least treating it with care. It would be a great family heirloom … especially after you’re Catholic.



michel

 

[cazayoux]

Nonsense. God is benevolent. God would never create a bad place to send his children.

Besides, even if Hell was real, just by being there, your carrying out a part of Gods grand plan and just knowing that your carrying out Gods will, would be a joyous affair.

How can you suggest that carrying out Gods will, would be anything but glory and wonder?

God doesn’t *send *you to hell … he allows you via free will the choice to reject him and choose to be separated from him … this is what hell is … separation from God. God does not *want *you to go to hell … he hasn’t created you to go there … IT’S YOUR CHOICE TO GO THERE.
So by choosing to go to hell … you are not fulfilling God’s plan for you, rather you are disappointing him by rejecting His love.

michel

 

[Iamnotafraid]

You want me to read something the Roman catholics have written. That’s like the police force investigating itself, it dosen’t work, like shooting yourself in the foot. Ralph

Who should investigate the police, the criminals?

If it’s not Catholics writing about Catholicism, whose going to do it? Atheists, Hindu’s or Evangelical Fundamentalist Christians? Come on man, your grasping at straws with this one!

 

[Iamnotafraid]

IT’S YOUR CHOICE TO GO THERE.

Perfect, then I’ll use my free will and choose to go to heaven.

 

[Iamnotafraid]

Those that reject God get to live in His prison. The good news is everyone finds a home somewhere.

My point exactly. People going to hell, is Gods will. If it were not Gods will, it would not be so.

Hell is a place where we go to carry out Gods righteous justice. Just by being in hell, we are carrying out Gods will and thereby can take comfort and solace for all of eternity, knowing that we are carrying out our role in Gods plan.

 

[Tomster]

My point exactly. People going to hell, is Gods will. If it were not Gods will, it would not be so.

Hell is a place where we go to carry out Gods righteous justice. Just by being in hell, we are carrying out Gods will and thereby can take comfort and solace for all of eternity, knowing that we are carrying out our role in Gods plan.

By saying this, what would be the difference between heaven and hell?

 

[cazayoux]

Perfect, then I’ll use my free will and choose to go to heaven.

Ahhh … so if you choose that you want a car … HOW do you go about GETTING the car?
Your choice requires action to lead you to the result.

If you choose to go to heaven, then you will DO what is asked of you to obtain that.
and it starts with asking God for grace.

I ***double dog dare you ***to pray to God (even if you doubt Him) and ask Him to give you grace.
Don’t be scared.

michel

 

[Iamnotafraid]

I ***double dog dare you ***to pray to God (even if you doubt Him) and ask Him to give you grace.
Don’t be scared.

michel

I tried that for the majority of my life and tried to live a life as a devout Catholic for about 5 years, late 20’s, until my early 30’s.

No results.

I was blind, but now I see. My unbelief has given me a new lease on life and my fears have melted away.

 

[cazayoux]

My point exactly. People going to hell, is Gods will. If it were not Gods will, it would not be so.

Hell is a place where we go to carry out Gods righteous justice. Just by being in hell, we are carrying out Gods will and thereby can take comfort and solace for all of eternity, knowing that we are carrying out our role in Gods plan.

NOT

God’s will is for us to excercise the free will he gave us.
It is not his will that anyone go to hell.
Love is the purpose here.
He created us through love … why would His will be to separate Himself from us, whom He loves.

It is not his will that anyone go to hell.

It is a strawman … you define God and hell … and reject that definition … however, your definitions are wrong.

michel

 

[Iamnotafraid]

Ahhh … so if you choose that you want a car … HOW do you go about GETTING the car?

I choose not to have a car. Therefor, I now do not have a car.

I choose to have a car, I will go and get a car on my own terms, not someone else’s terms.

It was a poor analogy, your welcome to try again.

 

[cazayoux]

I tried that for the majority of my life and tried to live a life as a devout Catholic for about 5 years, late 20’s, until my early 30’s.

No results.

I was blind, but now I see. My unbelief has given me a new lease on life and my fears have melted away.

I double dog dare you to do it one more time.
and everyone here will pray with you for you for the same thing.

michel

 

[Iamnotafraid]

NOT

It is not his will that anyone go to hell.

It was his will that Lucifer and 1/3 of his angels went to hell.

Upon our death, God is our Judge and God gives us our sentence. Yes, it is God who decides where we go.

He created us through love … why would His will be to separate Himself from us, whom He loves.

Excellent question. Yet, this is precisely what God does. You see, when God creates a life, God being omniscient, already knows the outcome of that persons life. God knows if that person is going to make choices that send her to heaven or to hell.

Even though, God knows he made a baby, that in 95 years will die and end up in hell for the rest of eternity, God allows that life to come into being anyway.

That is frightening that God willingly chooses to create life, with the foreknowledge to know that said life will be spending all of eternity in a special place that He created, called hell.

It is not his will that anyone go to hell.

Q - Who created Hell?
A - God
Q - Who sent Lucifer to earth, to live in a place called hell, and freely allows Lucifer to exist amongst his children?
A - God
Q - Who creates life, sets the rules, acts as the final Judge and gives out the sentence?
A - God

It is very much Gods will, for if it were not Gods will, it would not be so.

 

[cazayoux]

I choose not to have a car. Therefor, I now do not have a car.

I choose to have a car, I will go and get a car on my own terms, not someone else’s terms.

It was a poor analogy, your welcome to try again.

Heaven is something to be gained.
You do not have it now.
So if you choose to gain it, HOW will you gain it.

Heaven would be the car.
Hell would be not having the car.
This fits better with your first line.
You choose not to have heaven so you do not have heaven.

There may be many ways to get a car, but none of them are for free.
You cannot define the terms to be just anything.
For example … you cannot decide to just go to the Porche dealership, get the keys and steal the car.

So even with the car analogy, you do not have total authority to define the terms.

Car analogy still holds … well … .for not at least.

michel

 

[cazayoux]

Excellent question. Yet, this is precisely what God does. You see, when God creates a life, God being omniscient, already **knows **the outcome of that persons life. God **knows **if that person is going to make choices that send her to heaven or to hell.

Even though, God knows he made a baby, that in 95 years will die and end up in hell for the rest of eternity, God allows that life to come into being anyway.

Ah … I see the faulty logic.

God having knowledge does not equal it being His will.

You see a car accident that is about to happen. You KNOW it’s going to happen. You can’t affect the outcome.
See the difference between KNOWLEDGE and CONTROL. They are two separate things.

michel

 

[Iamnotafraid]

Ah … I see the faulty logic.

God having knowledge does not equal it being His will.

You see a car accident that is about to happen. You KNOW it’s going to happen. You can’t affect the outcome.
See the difference between KNOWLEDGE and CONTROL. They are two separate things.

michel

But I’m not given credit for having the powers of omnipotence and omniscience. If I did, you had better believe that I would not be getting into a car accident.

 

[Iamnotafraid]

There may be many ways to get a car, but none of them are for free.

It sounds like you have work really hard in order to get this reward.