SPLIT: Is Confession not necessary?

[Sailor_Kenshin]

I would hazard a guess that the Catholic Church has a problem and not I.

1. I am now an unbeliever, I don’t give a…( fill in the blanks with what ever you choose)
2. Scrupulous anonymous exists for a reason and it was not for me alone.

.

Guilt.

Guilt is useless, it keeps people stuck in the past and one does not need to feel guilty to know that one has made a mistake.

Another thing, I didn’t create the expression, ’ Catholic Guilt’

Go ahead, everyone who reads this, throw your darts my way. Pretend that I was an anonamly, a rarity and nothing to worry about.

People have stopped going to confession for a reason and it has nothing to do with living perfectly sinless lives.

“People?”

How many? One? A thousand? Can you provide statistics?

And can you prove that because something is popular, it is also true, right and just?



I believe you are crying out for help.

 

[CentralFLJames]

"I believe you are crying out for help.

Most definately - but something is telling me that he is actually here under false pretenses . I sense a pattern of interaction that I have seen in a recent person(s) banned for a rules infraction and don’t believe he is an atheist at all but role-playing one.

James

 

[Iamnotafraid]

“People?”

Can you provide statistics?
And can you prove that because something is popular, it is also true, right and just?

I’ve learned my lesson on these forums. If a statistic goes against the common held belief, the statistic is universally condemned.

If the statistic supports the common held belief, it is celebrated ad nauseum.

In essence, any thoughtful effort on my part, is wasted on narrow minds.

I believe you are crying out for help.

There was a time in my life, when I did cry out to your God for help, not once, not twice, dozens, if not hundreds of times.

In response, was the silence of nothing.

 

[Iamnotafraid]

I sense a pattern of interaction that I have seen in a recent person(s) banned for a rules infraction and don’t believe he is an atheist at all but role-playing one.

Can I ask, what religion do you think I am actually from or practice in real life? I assure you, I am not the person you think I am.

 

[CentralFLJames]

There was a time in my life, when I did cry out to your God for help, not once, not twice, dozens, if not hundreds of times.

In response, was the silence of nothing.

My friend, I hate to tell you this but you are no atheist. You are a person who “wants to believe” but are not finding all the answers as you would like them and are putting up the defensive shields.

You have found a few narrow truths that seem to work for you right now but you remain restless since the spirit is telling you “there is a lot more to it”. You are restless…

God is working you bro…

“Our hearts are restless until they rest in you oh Lord.” – St. Augustine

James

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

I’ve learned my lesson on these forums. If a statistic goes against the common held belief, the statistic is universally condemned.

If the statistic supports the common held belief, it is celebrated ad nauseum.

In essence, any thoughtful effort on my part, is wasted on narrow minds.

There was a time in my life, when I did cry out to your God for help, not once, not twice, dozens, if not hundreds of times.

In response, was the silence of nothing.

Are you sure God did NOT help you? Quite sure?

This ‘narrow mind’ is praying for you nonetheless.

 

[Iamnotafraid]

My friend, I hate to tell you this but you are no atheist. You are a person who “wants to believe” but are not finding all the answers as you would like them and are putting up the defensive shields.

You have found a few narrow truths that seem to work for you right now but you remain restless since the spirit is telling you “there is a lot more to it”. You are restless…

God is working you bro…

“Our hearts are restless until they rest in you oh Lord.” – St. Augustine

James

Nicely done.

It would certainly be easier if I could believe. To do so, I’d have to accept, that which insults my rational mind.

 

[Namesake]

Nicely done.

It would certainly be easier if I could believe. To do so, I’d have to accept, that which insults my rational mind.

Hi Iamnotafraid,

I am a lot like you in that I was raised in a very serious religious tradition and only recently got “lost” so to speak,

One question that continues to bug the heck out of me is how so many people with superior intellects can fully accept that which insults your, and my rational mind?

One of the best examples to me was William F. Buckley. There are of course many other examples as I am sure you know.

Can you explain that? I can’t.

 

[JacktheCatholic]

Nicely done.

It would certainly be easier if I could believe. To do so, I’d have to accept, that which insults my rational mind.

I remember when I was 17 years old and discussing the meaning of life and basically had an idea that later would be the Matrix movie. I was with a girlfriend talking in the car and we were discussing how our mind is like a computer and that science may (one day) be able to control all we see, hear, feel and taste and more by simply sending electronic impulses to our brain the same way our body does. Of course it was juvenile in it’s complexity but seemed to make sense. This is also before the Matrix was ever seen (20 years ago). I would have been considered an agnostic back then I suppose, as well.

But on reflection of this day, 20 years ago, and my acceptance of such a bizarre possibility as being a possibility, it occurred that the possibility of God is no more or less bizarre then the idea of a computer controlling our reality.

So, if a person can simply see the possibility of a God then they will question this possibility and may even ask, that if there is a God, that they be shown some sign.

Have you come to that point where you see a possibility but need some kind of proof of a God?

If so then do not be surprised if God gives you the proof.

 

[Jerry_Marino]

In Catholicism the confession is not to the priest but Jesus who is present at any confession.

I guess you could ask if the person doing confession does not know they are confessing to Jesus does it change anything? IMO the answer is NO. Why? Because we all know that Jesus is ALL KNOWING and so no matter if we believe we are confessing to just a priest or not that we are indeed confessing to Jesus.

o.k. i can accept that explanation, but why then for example as i remember back in the day, if Jesus is there, why does a person have to say depending on the sin, an x number of hail mary’s?

 

[Bruno_Schulz]

**We all knew for sure, that “Imnotafraid” will answer my “coming to the harsh point” post #396 extensively -
which he reliably did in post #408

All parents know of course, that a child who is very cross, answers in defiance very loud-mouthed

But analyzing his “very brave” bigmouth post #408, a little seed can be detected to the better!

His word:
“If it is true after all? So be it, if God chooses to send me to hell, then that is where I will go. It’s not like I didn’t give the whole God thing the good ol’ college try! If that’s not good enough for the loving Lord, so be it.”
proves far more defiance than disbelieve! Though a deadly dangerous defiance indeed.

It’s no solution for ones frustration over not granted wishes, to be cross with God, for God’s will is the best way. Always! “Your will be done - not mine!” for mine is humble and doesn’t overlook the consequences!

Let’s just hope and pray “Imnotafraid” finds back to God before it’s too late.
**

 

[Bruno_Schulz]

**

o.k. i can accept that explanation, but why then for example as i remember back in the day, if Jesus is there, why does a person have to say depending on the sin, an x number of hail mary’s?

Ha finally I have a simple post even I understand
Yes Ralph, that’s easy to answer. Thanks

Why - when Jesus is there? Simply because Jesus said so
Jesus knew why He said so.
One of the VERY many reasons is. You speak to a authorized person - authorized by God to let or hold your guild, and then you know what you wouldn’t know, if there was no person really talking to you

In the end it still remains Jesus Christ who forgives or doesn’t. If one confesses by cheating the priest, he jolly well knows it’s not forgiven, even though the priest said so!

And to “why does a person have to say depending on the sin, an x number of hail Mary’s?”
Easy to answer too and easy to be understood too:

This praying so many “Our Father”, “Hail Mary’s” or other prayers, is meant to after confession, get into very deep contact to God. (Hail Mary is prayed to have a intermediary to Her Son Jesus).
If you’d know the Mother of a king that king adores deeply, you’d ask her too - wouldn’t you?!

Now what I was fighting all my long life until today, is to make these prayers a “penance”. That’s a very silly interpretation indeed
No! Praying so many “Hail Mary’s” is meditation to thank God for His grace having forgiven our unworthiness. Nothing else.
We really must be grateful for being allowed to pray such after confession, and it’s a real feeling of effervescent (I looked that word up) - of effervescent happiness! One of the greatest happiness we have - and hereafter we really can communicate with Jesus Christ Himself in the Holy Communion.

**
Dinner time again - so I have to stop - “meal-terror” by Eva my wife
I hope there are not too many mistakes in that quick post
I know - my English… (well - Filou my dog understands it allright

 

[CentralFLJames]

o.k. i can accept that explanation, but why then for example as i remember back in the day, if Jesus is there, why does a person have to say depending on the sin, an x number of hail mary’s?

The few prayers (usually) given are what we call penance. You see confession while forgiving us of the eternal offense before God still has consequences to it in many ways. Sin increases appetite for sin in general (concupescence). We loose innocence which can never be regained in this life so we must replace it with holiness. The prayers are to help us be mindful that we rely on God for all help and to also begin trying to restore our temporal debts here in this life. We must pay our temporal debts now in this life or in the next (purgatory) and according to all the saints who have had revelations and visions is is MUCH better to pay these consequential debts now rather than later. Later, when we die the veil is removed and one can see or sense God vividly and the soul that is not in grave sin pines to be with him so separation is intensely painful. But nothing in the slighted that is impure (even an appetite for sin) can be permitted in heaven since a soul less than perfect would feel shame before God and cower (recollect Adam in the Garden hiding).

One can and should also do additional personal penances for grave sins since the priests do not want to impose harsh penance like the early church did (where it often took many months and even years to get back into the Church in good standing after serious offense). The Church does not want to impose too great a burden to discourage people. The truth is, that unless one truly repents and does penance one is very likely to repeat forgiven sins - this is the nature of sin. It does not want us to escape it and calls us back to itself to seperate from God again. Penance helps to put suffrage between us and our appetite for sin and to develop a discipline to overcome as well - it opens us up and disposes us for more protective grace.

James

 

[Catholicc]

…Another thing, I didn’t create the expression, ’ Catholic Guilt’…

It was invented by someone like you though, who does not want to own up to there sins and would rather blame the Church for their problems than admit their wrongdoing

 

[Catholicc]

o.k. i can accept that explanation, but why then for example as i remember back in the day, if Jesus is there, why does a person have to say depending on the sin, an x number of hail mary’s?

Penance is an outward sine of your repentence. If you go to this Catechism section:
vatican.va/archive/catechism/p2s2c2a4.htm
…it will explain penance somewhere around the middle of the page.

 

[Iamnotafraid]

It was invented by someone like you though, who does not want to own up to there sins and would rather blame the Church for their problems than admit their wrongdoing

Cite your source please.

The only blame I lay on the Church, is instilling within me, a superstitious belief in an invisible supernatural God that can read my mind.

A belief so strongly imprinted within my psyche at a very young age, that it was most difficult to overcome, for fear of eternal damnation in a horrific place called Hell.

 

[JacktheCatholic]

Cite your source please.

The only blame I lay on the Church, is instilling within me, a superstitious belief in an invisible supernatural God that can read my mind.

A belief so strongly imprinted within my psyche at a very young age, that it was most difficult to overcome, for fear of eternal damnation in a horrific place called Hell.

I was once like you… blaming others for my sins.

We all make our own choices and act on them as we will. You are free to believe or not in God and that is your choice and one you will have to live or die with. Many will die and that is as it must be. All I can do is try to find eternal Joy and Glory with God and pray for those that may find eternal damnation.

In Christ,

Jack

 

[JacktheCatholic]

o.k. i can accept that explanation, but why then for example as i remember back in the day, if Jesus is there, why does a person have to say depending on the sin, an x number of hail mary’s?

Penance is the answer.

The few prayers (usually) given are what we call penance. You see confession while forgiving us of the eternal offense before God still has consequences to it in many ways. Sin increases appetite for sin in general (concupescence). We loose innocence which can never be regained in this life so we must replace it with holiness. The prayers are to help us be mindful that we rely on God for all help and to also begin trying to restore our temporal debts here in this life. We must pay our temporal debts now in this life or in the next (purgatory) and according to all the saints who have had revelations and visions is is MUCH better to pay these consequential debts now rather than later. Later, when we die the veil is removed and one can see or sense God vividly and the soul that is not in grave sin pines to be with him so separation is intensely painful. But nothing in the slighted that is impure (even an appetite for sin) can be permitted in heaven since a soul less than perfect would feel shame before God and cower (recollect Adam in the Garden hiding).

One can and should also do additional personal penances for grave sins since the priests do not want to impose harsh penance like the early church did (where it often took many months and even years to get back into the Church in good standing after serious offense). The Church does not want to impose too great a burden to discourage people. The truth is, that unless one truly repents and does penance one is very likely to repeat forgiven sins - this is the nature of sin. It does not want us to escape it and calls us back to itself to seperate from God again. Penance helps to put suffrage between us and our appetite for sin and to develop a discipline to overcome as well - it opens us up and disposes us for more protective grace.

James

More on Penance: newadvent.org/cathen/11618c.htm

 

[Catholicc]

…The only blame I lay on the Church, is instilling within me, a superstitious belief in an invisible supernatural God that can read my mind…

Heck, I don’t need to be God to read your mind: You are bitter, and have unfounded hostility to the Church, the Bible, and God in general.

As I said before, on the last day of your life, you will believe in God again. I can ssure you of that.

 

[scottywolf777]

Heck, I don’t need to be God to read your mind: You are bitter, and have unfounded hostility to the Church, the Bible, and God in general.

As I said before, on the last day of your life, you will believe in God again. I can ssure you of that.

There is one sin according to the Scriptures and the teaching of the church that cannot be forgiven and that is blaspheny of the Holy Spirit (Matt 12-30-33) The general consensus is that amounts to a stubborn unrepentance that continues to your last breath. You are “comfortable” in your unbelief even though you were presumably taught better and were given the truth of the Gospel through the church (and to Ralphy here-God does not act in a vacuum and drop the Bible out of the skies but uses frail humans to do so.)
I challenge you IAMNOTAFRAID (who is very afraid! and still a catholic albeit an angry one) to ask God to show you the truth of your errors. Even better yet, get yourself a green scapular(you can get one online from many sources FREE) pray the prayer on the back and carry it after going to any priest to have it blessed and dare God to show you his love for you!
You are not living “guilt free” you’re merely in denial (not just a river in Egypt) and it can fixed very easily by going to confession and giving up your war with God. Even the great PROTESTANT psychologist Karl Meninger would have told you the same & charged you for it!

The greatest battle in the world was won by surrender!-anonymous