SPLIT: Mary can't hear our prayers

  • Thread starter Thread starter bluelake
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
If you accept that our prayers are delivered to God and his heavenly court through the ministry of angels, as indicated in the books of Tobit and Revelation, then it is not necessary for the Virgin Mary to be omnipresent to hear all the prayers addressed to her from around the world. All that is necessary for praying to the Virgin Mary to be efficacious is for angels and the Virgin Mary to communicate with each other and with God very, very quickly and that is not really a problem since the angels and the Virgin Mary are not hindered by the physical limitations of an earthly human body; angels don’t have physical bodies and the Virgin Mary’s body is now glorified. The concept of communicating vast amounts of information in a very short time should not seem so strange to anyone living in this computer age.
 
bluelake said:
You may be correct, but I also pray the Rosary, The Lutheran Rosary.
The part which is in question , I pray, “Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me a sinner.” I know God hears my prayers. 🙂

God bless,
bluelake
Click to expand...
I pray the Lutheran Rosary too - using the same prayer 😃 I do also say it sometimes with the pre-Trent Hail Mary as a way of meditating on how I’d like God to help me become a more humble servant like Mary. It’s good to hear that other Lutherans like the Rosary 👍

Peace and blessings, Julie
 
jediliz said:
who better to take our prayers to Jesus than His Own Mother? She takes our prayers to her Son.
Click to expand...
Why not just pray directly to God the Father or God the Son? This seems strange to me…🤷

Peace and blessings,
Julie
 
bluelake said:
I think the Rosary is a lovely devotion. However,
Mary is not omnipresent. She cannot hear our prayers.
I do not object on the part shown in Lu.1:26 56
It is true all generations will call her blessed.

God bless,
Click to expand...
bluelake
Juliebug108 said:
Why not just pray directly to God the Father or God the Son? This seems strange to me…
Click to expand...
🤷

Peace and blessings,
JulieYou guys apparently have no concept or understanding of the communion and intercession of saints.

I have a Bible study on this on my blog that might help some.
CA also has some good articles on this as well.
 
jediliz said:
who better to take our prayers to Jesus than His Own Mother? .
Click to expand...
Why, the Holy Spirit of course is the one and only who can and does it best too! We always gotta work very much on our relationship and understanding of Him.
He is the Person who according to the Bible leads us to Christ, give witness to Christ, and whom Christ leaves with us until the end of time, so He can take care of us.
 
Juliebug108 said:
Why not just pray directly to God the Father or God the Son? This seems strange to me…🤷
Click to expand...
Some people feel unworthy of going to straight to God, and therefore don’t. Not me, personally. But some feel that way.
 
Farsight001 said:
Some people feel unworthy of going to straight to God, and therefore don’t. Not me, personally. But some feel that way.
Click to expand...
That might be, but many of us praying the rosary don’t believe that prayer is ‘only for God’ (it isn’t, prayer is simply ‘asking’), and many of us believe in the communion of saints whereby we, going TO GOD as is ALWAYS the ultimate end of any prayer no matter what anyway because God is always our ultimate focus, JOIN WITH OTHERS (the saints) to pray TOGETHER.

Also many of us believe that since Christ came to us THROUGH MARY, we can go to Him most quickly through Mary as well. Remember, Christ and Mary are both in Heaven. It’s not as though they are two SEPARATE PEOPLE standing around millions of miles apart in space. Mary is indeed a creature, not a god, but she is a part of the mystic Body of Christ (like you and me) and in being in heaven she is united with Christ in a perfect way, just as you and I hope ourselves to be one day.

It is not a question of us giving a prayer ‘to Mary’ INSTEAD of to Christ, or because we feel like we aren’t ‘good enough’ for Christ, so Mary gets it first. While TRUE humility could mean that we understand our unworthiness, we would always know Christ loves us. Those who go to the saints do not do this ‘instead of’ approaching God but with humility and love uniting themselves in prayer WITH those saints and approaching God.

Rather, in going ‘straight to God’ we chose the way HE sent His Son STRAIGHT TO US. . .we offer WITH MARY (Christ’s own MOTHER) the most ‘direct’, loving, and Christ-centered prayer WITH the ENTIRE BODY OF CHRIST (living and dead).
 
FCEGM said:
Intercession while living on earth depends on being IN Christ, in a state of grace which sanctifies the soul, thus allowing the person to ask God something for someone else. But in Heaven, the person has the Beatific Vision of God and is united to Him “face to face” and “knows as he is known” and in a greater position to ask for someone else (since he does not need anything for himself). Therefore, to ask in Christ one of the Blessed to intercede for us is simply communicated to that someone by Christ since there is no other way that person could know what is going on down here except by being shown by Christ.

So in the Beatific Vision Christ, within Whom the Blessed are more - not less - in union, shows the Blessed the petitions of the brethren on earth, as in God all things are seen since God is All in all. This is not difficult for God to do. Thus we can know with absolute certainty that the Saints know the petitions addressed to them in Christ, A fortiori the Blessed Mother, who is the Mother of the whole Christ, the Head, and spiritually of the Body of the Faithful. We know this from the activity of the Church asking the Holy Mother constantly to intercede.
Click to expand...
:extrahappy: “YES! ! !”

And thank you Frances
 
FCEGM said:
Intercession while living on earth depends on being IN Christ, in a state of grace which sanctifies the soul, thus allowing the person to ask God something for someone else. But in Heaven, the person has the Beatific Vision of God and is united to Him “face to face” and “knows as he is known” and in a greater position to ask for someone else (since he does not need anything for himself). Therefore, to ask in Christ one of the Blessed to intercede for us is simply communicated to that someone by Christ since there is no other way that person could know what is going on down here except by being shown by Christ.

So in the Beatific Vision Christ, within Whom the Blessed are more - not less - in union, shows the Blessed the petitions of the brethren on earth, as in God all things are seen since God is All in all. This is not difficult for God to do. Thus we can know with absolute certainty that the Saints know the petitions addressed to them in Christ, A fortiori the Blessed Mother, who is the Mother of the whole Christ, the Head, and spiritually of the Body of the Faithful. We know this from the activity of the Church asking the Holy Mother constantly to intercede.
Click to expand...
This hits the nail on the head. I have stopped getting involved with discussions on this topic because all it does is gets me upset to the point to where all logical discussion goes out the door. I just do not like the Blessed mother is being attacked, defamed, or disrespected. But I have come to the conclusion that those who want to hold to the belief that the Blessed Mother is dead and cannot hear or intercede for us, that all they are really doing is putting limits on what God can do and not do. Plain and simple.
 
wmscott said:
. . . I just do not like the Blessed mother is being attacked, defamed, or disrespected. But I have come to the conclusion that those who want to hold to the belief that the Blessed Mother is dead and cannot hear or intercede for us, that all they are really doing is putting limits on what God can do and not do. Plain and simple.
Click to expand...
Yes, wms, as if those who have died in Christ are worse off in the Beatific Vision than they were on earth. 🤷
 
bluelake said:
Thank you for your reply.
Can you tell me where you find this teaching.
I know God is omnipresent, but Mary is not. At least I haven’t read anything
that teaches this. Have you? Or is this only what you think?

God bless,
bluelake
Click to expand...
Catholics believe that ALL the saints can hear our prayers and do, in fact, pray for us. This is evidenced by the abundance of miracles received through the intercession of the saints. It is one of the ways the Church recognizes and canonizes certain saints - through documented occurrences of miracles received after requests for their intercession.

Mary has been given to us as our mother and intercessor by Jesus from the Cross. Jesus would not have given us His mother had He not seen a need for her continuous intercession on behalf of us sinners. Jesus knows we need her help, so He gave His mother to us. St. John was at the foot of the cross representing all of us who could not be there. When he received her as his mother, he did so on behalf of us all. “Behold thy mother”.

This is the teaching of the Magisterium - the Church authority. Catholics do not rely SOLELY on the Bible for the tenets of our faith. We have the Bible, the teaching authority and Sacred Tradition. These three things are what make up all the tenets of the Catholic faith.

Since Mary is the perfect disciple of Christ, she is a role model for all humans. We need her help to attain this perfection. We would be completely lost without her intercession, or the intercession of all the angels and saints, for that matter.
 
She can hear our prayer through her interceding I know because many have been answered when i have asked her to intercede to her son our Divine Lord for me it is no different than asking someone here on earth to pray for me and how much closer is she because she is right there in heaven with him as is everyoner elso who has died and gone to heaven.
 
Juliebug108 said:
Why not just pray directly to God the Father or God the Son? This seems strange to me…🤷

Peace and blessings,
Julie
Click to expand...
Because Jesus never says “no” to His mother. 😃 So why not ask Mary to ask Jesus on your behalf. I think it was mentioned somewhere on this thread (maybe not this thread, but another on CAF), that Mary takes our petitions and perfects them before presenting them to her Son.

I’m not afraid to go directly to God with my prayers. I pray my prayers of adoration, contrition and thanksgiving directly to God. My prayers of petition, however, are directed to the saints many times, in the hopes of their intercession on my behalf. Since Mary and the saints are already in heaven and are much closer to God than I am, it makes sense to have them “put in a good word for me”, for lack of a better term.

Often times, I pray prayers of petition for my own friends. If someone I know is going through a rough time, or is sick, I will pray for them. It’s the same idea. I consider the saints to be my friends in heaven. And Mary is my very own mother! I can’t ignore her any more than I could ignore my own mother. Just because I have a father, doesn’t mean I can only speak to him and no one else. God made us to be social. My prayers are socializing with the saints, and the 4th Commandment is “Honor your father and mother”. Mary is my mother. How could I not honor her?
 
Hi Julie,

Why not just pray directly to God the Father or God the Son? This seems strange to me…

Remember those Greek Jews who went to see Philip, not daring to go directly to Jesus? Sometimes, we feel sort of shy approaching God directly. We feel closer to the saints, who went through the same things we did. Since the quality of the anwers to our prayers depend on the confidence we have, praying God through the saints may sometimes be more effective than praying Him directly.

There is no dobut that this is pleasing to God. You only have to read about the miracles that were reported in recent canonization cases, miracles that were scientifically and theologicallly scrutinized befroe being accepted.

Verbum
 
Randy_Carson said:
She doesn’t have to be. God can make the prayers available to her, and since heaven is not bound by space or time, she has “all the time in the world” to listen to them.
Click to expand...
Hi Randy,
Now this a Lutheran can sink his teeth into. 👍 We can also pray to God that he listen to her prayers and the prayers of the rest of the Church Triumphant.
Originally Posted by bluelake
I think the Rosary is a lovely devotion. However,
Mary is not omnipresent. She cannot hear our prayers.
I do not object on the part shown in Lu.1:26 56
It is true all generations will call her blessed.
Click to expand...
God bless,
Click to expand...
For the OP I’m not sure the confessions so much deny the ability of the Blessed Mother to hear our prayers, as they contend, rightly, that there is no example, command, or promise attached to invocation of the saints. This, to me, is a significant difference.

Jon
 
It doesn’t matter whether you think you’re invoking the saints or not. If you pray to Christ, you pray to the Body of Christ also. The saints are in the Body, so if you pray to Christ you pray to them.

It’d like saying, “I want to have a conversation with your brain, but I won’t let your ear listen or your mouth speak to me.” Wouldn’t work.

Of course, with the saints vs. Christ, it’s more like ‘I can’t talk to you without including your skin and hair in the conversation’, in relative power terms – but He doesn’t deal with us on terms of power. He loves us. We are His friends and His siblings. Why would He want the saints to be excluded from the conversation? He makes us like Him; therefore He delegates power to the saints and lets them work through Him to assist those of us still on earth. He is in them and they are in Him.
 
bluelake said:
Your quoting what is found in books, but not the Bible.
Can you show me where this appears in the Bible? (Mary hears our prayers?)
Click to expand...
You are claiming something that is not found in the bible: that Mary cannot hear our prayers.
The bible is silent on the issue of whether Mary hears our prayers.
 
If I speak there is a compression and rareification in air that travels like a wave to those who have ears to hear. No prayer travels unless it is through Him. He is the only way. He has always known your prayer and perfects it.
I do not know why God permits us to participate in the economy of salvation. It is His way. We do not lob prayer bombs over heavens’ wall. Mary does not come to Jesus, Who asks “He said WHAT”?
Jesus knew, before time began, every prayer. His saints are on fire to participate. It is great joy for them, and from Love that we, the church, enjoy the communion of saints. Before time began He knew which prayers would give the greatest joy to the saint and the sinner. This is a wonderful grace. Those who misunderstand are unnecessarily lonely. Through Him , with Him, and in Him,in the unity of the Holy Spirit, all glory and honor are Yours’ Almighty Father, forever and ever.

Mary conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee. Amen

peace
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top