Split Opens In Church Between Believers In Psychology And Those Who See Demon

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I think demon-possesion is real. I think that the Church has come a long way in this department. Perhaps in the path before we understood mental illness, there was an issue? I don’t know? But it’s not like we’re running around casting demons out of everybody. One should read “Piercing the Darkness” or whatever those books where - there they were constantly calling demons out.

And for the one person that thought that the exorcist unintentionally hypnotizes another to make them talk like a demon. Uh, yeah. Whatever. :rolleyes:
 
childofmary1143 said:
spiritdaily.com/vaticanexorcists1.htm

What does everyone think?
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Just my opinion, but I believe physical, mental and spiritual health are all interconnected. You can’t treat one successfully without caring for the others. It is just as foolish to dismiss exorcisim as it is to forget about modern science.

I think it is interesting that medical doctors who treat the body see better healing in those who practice their faith (all religions). Medical Dr.s see this connection, but doctors of the mind tend to dismiss any connection. There is a mutual lack of disrespect between mental health practioners and the faithful. Until this is resolved, we are just spinning our wheels.

Nohome
 
Father Francesco Bamonte, a noted exorcist in Rome, told the students he was fortunate to work with a team of priests and a psychologist “who screen all the requests for exorcism. Otherwise I would not have time for the people who really need me.”
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The priest, a member of the Servants of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, said “several hundred” people approach his team each year thinking they are possessed.
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After counseling, he said, “I do maybe 20 exorcisms each year.”
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Father Scarafoni said that, generally, “85 percent to 90 percent of these people are not possessed or even being attacked by the devil. They need someone to listen. They need a prayer. They need a long walk and a glass of water.”
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catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0500960.htm
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So it seems reasonable to say this priest encounters may be 2 a year of demonic influenced attacks?

So I’d accept this as plausible evidence it’s rare but can happen.
 
Nohome said:
Just my opinion, but I believe physical, mental and spiritual health are all interconnected. You can’t treat one successfully without caring for the others. It is just as foolish to dismiss exorcisim as it is to forget about modern science.

I think it is interesting that medical doctors who treat the body see better healing in those who practice their faith (all religions). Medical Dr.s see this connection, but doctors of the mind tend to dismiss any connection. There is a mutual lack of disrespect between mental health practioners and the faithful. Until this is resolved, we are just spinning our wheels.

Nohome
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You are not alone in this belief. There is a relatively new Catholic graduate school of psychology in DC (IPS - Institute for the Psychological Sciences) that is based on the understanding that a person’s spiritual problems need to be addressed as part of his psychological counseling.

Ender
 
Nohome said:
Just my opinion, but I believe physical, mental and spiritual health are all interconnected. You can’t treat one successfully without caring for the others. It is just as foolish to dismiss exorcisim as it is to forget about modern science.
Nohome
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I agree with you. I was thinking about this the other day. There’s a reason some of the religions of the far east make the connection of mind, body, and spirit. Jesus also makes the connection when he says

You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength.’ (Mark 12:30)

I think heart and soul would be the spirit, mind is the mind, and strength is the body. It does look like the three work together.
 
I think my cat is possessed. I have been asking our parish priest to do an exorcism, and I have even offered to just bring the cat to him. He just laughed at me. I am considering taking the cat to another priest for help… (hehehehehehe) That cat is psycho however, and I have considered some meds for it.
 
We have two cats and a dog. That cat was a rescue- it lived in a house with a German Shepherd, and spent most of its life on top of a washing machine. I felt sorry for her, so we took her in. Dang thing attacks everybody, especially my youngest daughter. I would get rid of her, but my husband is specially fond of her, and then I feel guilty for thinking about getting rid of her. It’s a never ending cycle…
 
If Jesus himself cast out many demons while traveling and preaching, what makes anyone think that it is not likely that people of today can be possessed? Of course, like I have heard many clergy speak on this very subject, it is a very rare happening, but INDEED it DOES happen in this day and age. And just to add my own logic, with evil increasing in our world at a fairly good clip, there are naturally going to be more possessions happening. Just makes logical sense. I read somewhere that before the era of John Paul ll there were very very few priests in the Church trained in exorcism. Under his direction, they formed a new “school” for priests to be trained in exorcism and significantly increased the number of students for this task. This all happened because there were an increasing amount of Church confirmed possessions with not enough priests to handle the job. If any of you are aware of what it takes for the Church to confirm a suspected possession, it is almost literally an act of congress. The suspected victim must undergo a battery of physical and mental testing by a reputable team of Dr.s and then be evaluated by the Bishop and then the Cardinal etc., etc. They just don’t decide the victim is actually possessed and waltz in to perform an exorcism.

Bottom line, I believe, is if possessions happened 2000 years ago, why would they not happen now? …especially with evil on the rise? The Church has always been very prudent when evaluating a victim to sort out who is REALLY possessed and who is actually suffering from a mental, emotional, or physical illness. Those that say it NEVER happens are being lied to by…guess who? THE FATHER OF LIES.
 
Just a follow up thought on my last post…One of Satan’s very crafty strategies is to diminish his power and even his very existence in the minds of people and better yet in the minds of GOD’S PEOPLE. The more we dismiss his relevance in the world or in the ordinary lives of people the more freedom it gives him sink his hooks in.😉
 
Two interesting thoughts hit me when I read the article and the responses.
  1. The possessed people presented intense reactions when in the presence of holiness - from the article: Pope John Paul II, and from the Bible: Jesus. Perhaps we don’t recognize the possessed as truly possessed because there’s not enough holy people around for them to react.
  2. One of the signs of possession in the article was speaking in tongues. Why is it sometimes a sign of possession and sometimes a gift of the Holy Spirit?
Peace
 
nobody said:
One of the signs of possession in the article was speaking in tongues. Why is it sometimes a sign of possession and sometimes a gift of the Holy Spirit?

Peace
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The Gift of Tongues from the Holy Spirit is when Person A speaks in one language and the others in Person’s A presence hear it clearly and articulately in their own native languages.

I am certain that doesn’t happen in a Possession
 
childofmary1143 said:
The Gift of Tongues from the Holy Spirit is when Person A speaks in one language and the others in Person’s A presence hear it clearly and articulately in their own native languages.

I am certain that doesn’t happen in a Possession
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I hit my hand with a hammer while shingling a roof. I’m quite sure I was speaking in tongues yet those around me CLEARLY understood what I meant!

Nohome
 
Nohome said:
I hit my hand with a hammer while shingling a roof. I’m quite sure I was speaking in tongues yet those around me CLEARLY understood what I meant!

Nohome
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I guess you have the Gift of the Bang!!:extrahappy: :extrahappy:
 
Yes, the Catholic Church still teaches that demonic possession is real. Both Pope John Paul II and now Benedict XVI have upheld this view.

Fr. Amorth (the chief exorcist in Rome) has written some interesting books on the subject.
 
A person can be mentally unbalanced.
A person can be demonically oppressed.
A person can be demonically possessed.
A person can be seriously insane (schizophrenia, etc).

A person can be mentally unbalanced due to demon oppression/possession.
A person can be seriously insane due to demon oppression/possession.

A person can be mentally unbalanced due to emotional issues/biochemical issues/etc.
A person can be seriously insane due to emotional issues/biochemical issues/etc.

Knowing how to discern what is happening in a specific case takes more wisdom than I possess.
 
You should read Peace of Soul by Fulton Sheen. Although I don’t remember him commenting on how Psychologists have replaced Exorcists, he did say comment on how Psychologists have replaced Confession. He wrote this book back in the 1960’s. He never ruled out all of psychology though.

My feeling is that there needs to be a middle ground. It doesn’t harm anything if you give an exorcist psychological training to look for signs of psychological illness vs. demonic possession.

Someone made a comment about the Ouija board. Why is it so hard to stay away from it? Just don’t dabble in stuff you don’t know is bad or good. Would people complain so much if the church banned Monopoly? It makes me go hmmm…
 
I believe in both Psychology and in Demons and Possession.

Psychology doesn’t always work… and some of those failures may be due to demonic influence and/or possession.

Then again, I have seen an exorcism. SCARY. And the guy so desperately wanted it, too. Right up until the prayers began.

After the exorcism, the chap went on meds, and was fully functonal. The combination of mental illness and possession is a very real one.
 
kellicouch77 said:
I think my cat is possessed. I have been asking our parish priest to do an exorcism, and I have even offered to just bring the cat to him. He just laughed at me. I am considering taking the cat to another priest for help… (hehehehehehe) That cat is psycho however, and I have considered some meds for it.
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My dog would “cure” you cat in about 10 seconds.
 
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