SPLIT: Opposition: Penance & Confession

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DLClark said:
Only god can judicially forgive our sins. Man has no power to do this because man is not sinned against in reality. Only God is sinned against.

Forgiveness of sins is one of the major benefits of the death of Christ. It is the essence of the New Covenant (matt 26:28). Procaliming forgivenss of sins was the prominent feature of the apostolic preaching, in Acts. Jesus was giving the apostles (by extension all believers) the priviledge of announcing heaven’s terms on how a person can receive frogivenss. If a person believes in Christ faith alone, the Christians have the right to announce that his forgiveness. If a person rejects Christ (by not palcing thir faith in Him or by adding works to salvation), then a Christian can announce that that person is not forgivens. This passage has nothing to do with man being able to forgive sins. Only God can do that. Christians saved by faith in Christ only announce or stated what God has done for them through Christ.

Believers can only announce, never forgive, the conditions for forgiveness. There in one condition for forgiveness and that is faith alone in Christ. When a person does this their sins are forgiven.

We do not need to go to a preist for forgiveness. Each believer can go directly to God because of what Christ has done for them on the cross.
Christ is our Mediator and Advocate. Not a human priest.
1 Tim 2:4-6
5 For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave Himself as a ransom for all,
NASU

1 John 2:1-2
A My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous; 2 and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.
NASU
Click to expand...
Wrong again D.L.

Jesus said to them [the Apostles] again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.” And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.” (John 20:21-23)

It is interesting to note that in a different part of Scripture, when St.Peter asked our Lord how many times he should forgive his brother Jesus answered 7 X 70 times. Jesus did not make mention of retaining any sins at this time. Why do you think that is?
 
Tomster said:
Wrong again D.L.

Jesus said to them [the Apostles] again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.” And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.” (John 20:21-23)

It is interesting to note that in a different part of Scripture, when St.Peter asked our Lord how many times he should forgive his brother Jesus answered 7 X 70 times. Jesus did not make mention of retaining any sins at this time. Why do you think that is?
Click to expand...
How can man forgie sins? they are not God. It is the blood of Christ provides us with our forgiveness. Man can only declare what god has said. God is the one who offened andHe is the only one who can forgive.

A Christian alredy has all of his sins forgiven. Sin breaks fellowship with God and never salvation. The Bible that through the death of Christ all of a christians are forgiven. 1 John 1:8-9 tells us what to do when do sin though.
Rom 4:7-8

7 "BLESSED ARE THOSE WHOSE LAWLESS DEEDS HAVE BEEN FORGIVEN,
AND WHOSE SINS HAVE BEEN COVERED.
8 “BLESSED IS THE MAN WHOSE SIN THE LORD WILL NOT TAKE INTO ACCOUNT.”
NASU

Eph 4:31-32
32 Be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving each other, just as God in Christ also has forgiven you.
NASU

Col 2:13-14
13 When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions, 14 having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.
NASU

1 John 2:12-13

12 I am writing to you, little children, because your sins have been forgiven you for His name’s sake.
NASU
 
DLClark said:
You have not addressed my question. You just stated why you think penance is needed. I would like to know this:Q. If we must practice mortification in order to receive the forgiveness of sins, how moritified do we have to be in order to have our sins forgivens?
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I have answered your question, as have all of the others. In simple terms, the degree of our mortification is left to God. If you re-read my posts with a little bit more of an open mind and remove your Protestant bias from the discussion you will see that as members of Christ’s Mystical what we are required to do is to live our whole life offering our complete selves to the Father through and with Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
 
DLClark said:
How can man forgie sins? they are not God. It is the blood of Christ provides us with our forgiveness. Man can only declare what god has said. God is the one who offened andHe is the only one who can forgive.

A Christian alredy has all of his sins forgiven. Sin breaks fellowship with God and never salvation. The Bible that through the death of Christ all of a christians are forgiven. 1 John 1:8-9 tells us what to do when do sin though.
Rom 4:7-8

7 "BLESSED ARE THOSE WHOSE LAWLESS DEEDS HAVE BEEN FORGIVEN,
AND WHOSE SINS HAVE BEEN COVERED.
8 “BLESSED IS THE MAN WHOSE SIN THE LORD WILL NOT TAKE INTO ACCOUNT.”
NASU

Eph 4:31-32
32 Be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving each other, just as God in Christ also has forgiven you.
NASU

Col 2:13-14
13 When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions, 14 having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.
NASU

1 John 2:12-13

12 I am writing to you, little children, because your sins have been forgiven you for His name’s sake.
NASU
Click to expand...
Re-read John 20:21-23. These are the words of Jesus. Believe them!
 
Tomster said:
I have answered your question, as have all of the others. In simple terms, the degree of our mortification is left to God. If you re-read my posts with a little bit more of an open mind and remove your Protestant bias from the discussion you will see that as members of Christ’s Mystical what we are required to do is to live our whole life offering our complete selves to the Father through and with Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
Click to expand...
How well does one have to live their life to know that their sins are forgiven? What standard do you have meet to qualify for forgiveness of sins?
 
DLClark said:
How well does one have to live their life to know that their sins are forgiven? What standard do you have meet to qualify for forgiveness of sins?
Click to expand...
You have a misunderstanding of both what the Church teaches and what Scripture says. Please just read the thread from the beginning. You will get no more answers from me until you start addressing the ones already given.
 
DLClark said:
Q. If we must practice mortification in order to receive the forgiveness of sins, how moritified do we have to be in order to have our sins forgivens?
Click to expand...
DLClark, I have reported you to the moderators for TROLLNG. Start taking this seriously or get off the forum. You are only making yourself look EXTREMELY rude and ignorant.
 
DLClark said:
How well does one have to live their life to know that their sins are forgiven? What standard do you have meet to qualify for forgiveness of sins?
Click to expand...
After making a valid and licit confession, one must remain in the state of sanctifying grace.

Hope this helps. :tiphat:
 
DLClark said:
Only god can judicially forgive our sins. Man has no power to do this because man is not sinned against in reality. Only God is sinned against.

Forgiveness of sins is one of the major benefits of the death of Christ. It is the essence of the New Covenant (matt 26:28). Procaliming forgivenss of sins was the prominent feature of the apostolic preaching, in Acts. Jesus was giving the apostles (by extension all believers) the priviledge of announcing heaven’s terms on how a person can receive frogivenss. If a person believes in Christ faith alone, the Christians have the right to announce that his forgiveness. If a person rejects Christ (by not palcing thir faith in Him or by adding works to salvation), then a Christian can announce that that person is not forgivens. This passage has nothing to do with man being able to forgive sins. Only God can do that. Christians saved by faith in Christ only announce or stated what God has done for them through Christ.

Believers can only announce, never forgive, the conditions for forgiveness. There in one condition for forgiveness and that is faith alone in Christ. When a person does this their sins are forgiven.

We do not need to go to a preist for forgiveness. Each believer can go directly to God because of what Christ has done for them on the cross.
Christ is our Mediator and Advocate. Not a human priest.
1 Tim 2:4-6
5 For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave Himself as a ransom for all,
NASU

1 John 2:1-2
A My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous; 2 and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.
NASU
Click to expand...
So, you are calling Jesus a liar when He told His disciples to forgive sins in John 20:23?
 
DL:

If we are saved by faith alone, how much faith do we have to have to be saved?
 
E.E.N.S said:
DLClark, I have reported you to the moderators for TROLLNG. Start taking this seriously or get off the forum. You are only making yourself look EXTREMELY rude and ignorant.
Click to expand...
Excellent idea. 👍

~Liza
 
(Edited)

But, my question is one that I wish Protestants would address. If they insist on embracing Sola Fide, how much faith is necessary for salvation? How HARD do they have to believe. What if they believe 23 hours and 55 minutes a day, but during that one five minute lapse, when they don’t believe 100% they die? Well, oops? Saved by faith, but their faith failed when they needed it most. Or does one just have to mutter to oneself all day every day, “I believe, I believe, I believe” So in reality their “Fide” is nothing more than a “work” or dare I say, A PENANCE?
 
Marsha_Adams said:
(Edited)

But, my question is one that I wish Protestants would address. If they insist on embracing Sola Fide, how much faith is necessary for salvation? How HARD do they have to believe. What if they believe 23 hours and 55 minutes a day, but during that one five minute lapse, when they don’t believe 100% they die? Well, oops? Saved by faith, but their faith failed when they needed it most. Or does one just have to mutter to oneself all day every day, “I believe, I believe, I believe” So in reality their “Fide” is nothing more than a “work” or dare I say, A PENANCE?
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I understand your concern, but DLClark will not address anything in this thread honestly. He has more than proved himself to be the worst kind of troll, IMO, and should be given no more attention. His questions have been answered repeatedly, and he has proved that he is incapable of having an honest dialogue. If I were a moderator here I would give him a stern warning, and if he continued to act as he has thus far I would ban him from the forum. He is doing a disservice to everyone in this thread, and to all who come here for true discussion.

He has bothered me with far too many PM’s which are no different than what is taking place in this thread. He is annoying in both situations, and unwilling to act as an intelligent adult.

DLClark’s signature should read: “Don’t confuse me with the facts, I am only here to get under your skin.”
 
DLClark said:
Q. If we must practice mortification in order to receive the forgiveness of sins, how moritified do we have to be in order to have our sins forgivens?
Click to expand...
Until our soul is spotless. While on this earth we will not know. So, it is best to keep practicing mortification to lessen the time in purgatory.

Our Lady (the Blessed Virgin Mary) appeared to 3 children in Fatima. They asked about some loved ones of theirs who had died… wondering if they were in Heaven with the Lord. She told them they would be in purgatory until the end of time. (The end of time is when our world as we know it now ceases to exist. )

Does that give you an idea of how long is possible?
 
Hyacinth_II said:
Until our soul is spotless. While on this earth we will not know. So, it is best to keep practicing mortification to lessen the time in purgatory.

Our Lady (the Blessed Virgin Mary) appeared to 3 children in Fatima. They asked about some loved ones of theirs who had died… wondering if they were in Heaven with the Lord. She told them they would be in purgatory until the end of time. (The end of time is when our world as we know it now ceases to exist. )

Does that give you an idea of how long is possible?
Click to expand...
DLClark has a hard enough time grasping some of the most basic verses in Scripture, (as well as actually reading and replying to threads in a forum!)…but giving someone like him this post is like giving a fire-breathing troll a supersoaker filled with gasoline. You will not get the desired result from a post like this.
 
DLClark said:
We do not need to go to a preist for forgiveness. Each believer can go directly to God because of what Christ has done for them on the cross.
Christ is our Mediator and Advocate. Not a human priest.
SU
Click to expand...
John 20: 21 He said therefore to them again: Peace be to you. As the Father hath sent me, I also send you. 22 When he had said this, he breathed on them; and he said to them: Receive ye the Holy Ghost. 23 Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you shall retain,they are retained. You would not have confessed your sins to the Apostles?
 
E.E.N.S said:
You have a misunderstanding of both what the Church teaches and what Scripture says. Please just read the thread from the beginning. You will get no more answers from me until you start addressing the ones already given.
Click to expand...
Here why I ask my question. If works are part of your salvation and you believe they are then it is logical to ask, how well must I prform those works in oder to be saved/ You keep asking me to go back to threds and I have and have not found an answer. I want to know that, since you say works are needed, what is the standard God uses to judge our works by?
 
DLClark said:
Here why I ask my question. If works are part of your salvation and you believe they are then it is logical to ask, how well must I prform those works in oder to be saved/ You keep asking me to go back to threds and I have and have not found an answer. I want to know that, since you say works are needed, what is the standard God uses to judge our works by?
Click to expand...
Preform all the works as well as you can. Don’t half heartedly do anything for the Lord. Fast fully, abstain fully, be fully humble and subserviant. Remember the story about Cain and Abel? One gave God his best. That’s what we are supposed to do. God’s yardstick to judge us is Jesus. We need to be as good as Jesus. Always.
 
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