Split:OSAS (from Father Corapi ... on Baptism & Protestants)

[CentralFLJames]

That’s why i left the Catholic church to learn the truth but nice try anyway. I have given you enough scripture to get you started. Please try to learn to rightly divide the Word of God. It is dangerous to interpret the Word of God to fit your way of thinking. By the way. Check out John Ankerberg on you tube. It really has a good debate between Walter Martin and a Catholic priest. I will be praying that you eyes and heart would be opened to the truth.
God Bless My Friend.

Running away without so much as a rebuttal other than to say without any proof that that I don’t know how to rightly divide the word of God??? And you do??? Please - we are adults in this forum…

Frankly, I really don’t believe you were ever Catholic. Catholics tend to me more educated and rational than this.

Further, if you are following fundamentalist Christian TV entertainers like John "Anger"berg then you are worse off then I imagined. This man is making millions in his TV Simony empire. He employs ghost writers to write books just so he can put his name on them and make money - just like so many other fundamentalists of his ilk do. He also puts together “staged” debates reminiscent of the fake Saturday afternoon TV wrestling matches we used to see as kids just to generate emotion among his supporters and control the agenda so his “guests” never get a fair shot at debating. It’s all about building emotionalism up to make himself a vicarious Gladiator through better men to appeal to his constituency for PR and income.

If Ankerberg is preaching your idea of Christianity then you go right ahead and cut-to-commercial in the middle of the debate and run from the truth without so much as a word refuting what I presented. Running the clock out on the debate and circuitous rope-a-dope arguments just to to prevent from being knocked out is a loser’s strategy that inspires no one to consider your position. It’s a loser’s strategy. Everyone knows the reason you run away is because you can’t stand up to the truth on your own two feet and you know you are in way over your head with somone who actually knows what he is talking about.

Come back when you get enough intestinal fortitude and the wherewithal to actually defend your faith.

James

 

[BRB1]

OSAS occurs at the moment someone believes in Jesus as both Lord and Savior, then the sanctification process lasts a lifetime, then you are glorified. Romans 8 for more detail.

At that moment, your past and present are under grace… but, Christ doesn’t tell you in the Gospels that initial faith is all you will ever need for future events.

Use your head, when reading scripture. Paul’s admonitions in all his Epistles are primarily directed to those who have been baptized and professed Christ by initial faith [your situation is no different than theirs].

And, if Paul had believed in OSAS, he wouldn’t of spent alot of his time preaching to the converts, who had fallen back into secular ways.

Don’t you see your scriptural disconnects ?

 

[ppasa316]

Running away without so much as a rebuttal other than to say without any proof that that I don’t know how to rightly divide the word of God??? And you do??? Please - we are adults in this forum…

Frankly, I really don’t believe you were ever Catholic. Catholics tend to me more educated and rational than this.

Further, if you are following fundamentalist Christian TV entertainers like John "Anger"berg then you are worse off then I imagined. This man is making millions in his TV Simony empire. He employs ghost writers to write books just so he can put his name on them and make money - just like so many other fundamentalists of his ilk do. He also puts together “staged” debates reminiscent of the fake Saturday afternoon TV wrestling matches we used to see as kids just to generate emotion among his supporters and control the agenda so his “guests” never get a fair shot at debating. It’s all about building emotionalism up to make himself a vicarious Gladiator through better men to appeal to his constituency for PR and income.

If Ankerberg is preaching your idea of Christianity then you go right ahead and cut-to-commercial in the middle of the debate and run from the truth without so much as a word refuting what I presented. Running the clock out on the debate and circuitous rope-a-dope arguments just to to prevent from being knocked out is a loser’s strategy that inspires no one to consider your position. It’s a loser’s strategy. Everyone knows the reason you run away is because you can’t stand up to the truth on your own two feet and you know you are in way over your head with somone who actually knows what he is talking about.

Come back when you get enough intestinal fortitude and the wherewithal to actually defend your faith.

James

I am not going anywhere. If you knew what you were talking about and rightly dividing God’s Word I wouldn’t mind debating you more. You just don’t make any sense. You seem to be an angry Catholic and that’s now way to be is it. Your not doing the Catholic faith any good by your replys and lack of knowledge. Anyway I said my piece and now its on to another subject. God Bless you my friend. You will be in my prayers

 

[Church_Militant]

**
That is correct; that verse is basically stating that names in the book are so sure; they will never be blotted out. If your name is in the Book of Life, which the elects names were put there before all creation; then it cannot be taken out. Ya better hope it is in there. There are no additions as well.**

Let’s look at it and see if that is really what the verse is actually saying.

Revelation 3:5 He that shall overcome, shall thus be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, and I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

Am I the only one who sees the straight up message that those who don’t overcome will have their names blotted out of the book of life? That means they were in it to begin with and taken out. If that doesn’t scream loss of salvation then I don’t know what does.

 

[Church_Militant]

OSAS occurs at the moment someone believes in Jesus as both Lord and Savior, then the sanctification process lasts a lifetime, then you are glorified. Romans 8 for more detail.

Sounds great so far as non-scriptural teachings of men are concerned, but it’s not in the scriptures, but only in some of the interpretations of modern men.

 

[CentralFLJames]

I am not going anywhere. If you knew what you were talking about and rightly dividing God’s Word I wouldn’t mind debating you more. You just don’t make any sense. You seem to be an angry Catholic and that’s now way to be is it. Your not doing the Catholic faith any good by your replys and lack of knowledge. Anyway I said my piece and now its on to another subject. God Bless you my friend. You will be in my prayers

You are running away ppasa. You have not even addressed a single thing I have said. All you have said is “I am not rightly dividing God’s word” but you have not used scripture to demonstrate that. What have I said that does not make sense?
I have given you dozens of scriptures supporting my position but you have ignored every single one of them without even asking a single question for clarification or proving one of them “wrongly divided” (as you say it). Why am I getting the impression that you think that you are the only one on the planet who knows how to rightly divide scripture? Do you think you are infallible in your scripture interpretation and no one else is?

You are not making a good defense of your faith by not presenting any evidence to show where Catholics are wrong.

James

 

[Church_Militant]

That’s why i left the Catholic church to learn the truth but nice try anyway.

Really? Well I learned the truth and that led me back home to our most holy faith. My Testimony

I have given you enough scripture to get you started. Please try to learn to rightly divide the Word of God.

That’s precisely how I returned to the Catholic faith. Deception by well meaning (for the most part) people with Bibles is (still) a bad thing.

It is dangerous to interpret the Word of God to fit your way of thinking.

I was just going to say that very thing about all the lies, misinformation, and propaganda that I discovered as I dug around to find the facts.

By the way. Check out John Ankerberg on you tube. It really has a good debate between Walter Martin and a Catholic priest.

Not a chance. Ankerberg’s propaganda is some that I have refuted on my blog
Refuting: "Is a Catholic Christian an Oxymoron?"

I admire Fr. Martin for debating him, but I’ve heard all that stuff many times before and it’s one of the reasons that I am Catholic.

I will be praying that you eyes and heart would be opened to the truth.
God Bless My Friend.

Yeah, and we’ll be bombarding Heaven for you as well. I’ll start right now with one prayer that St. Maximilian Kolbe taught us as Militia Immaculata.

O Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to you, and for all those who do not have recourse to you, especially the enemies of the Church and those recommended to you.

 

[Church_Militant]

You are running away ppasa. You have not even addressed a single thing I have said. All you have said is “I am not rightly dividing God’s word” but you have not used scripture to demonstrate that. What have I said that does not make sense?
I have given you dozens of scriptures supporting my position but you have ignored every single one of them without even asking a single question for clarification or proving one of them “wrongly divided” (as you say it). Why am I getting the impression that you think that you are the only one on the planet who knows how to rightly divide scripture? Do you think you are infallible in your scripture interpretation and no one else is?

You are not making a good defense of your faith by not presenting any evidence to show where Catholics are wrong.

James

Ah James…you know how it is. A Catholic can never be right, just because we are Catholics.

 

[wisdomseeker]

That’s why i left the Catholic church to learn the truth but nice try anyway. I have given you enough scripture to get you started. Please try to learn to rightly divide the Word of God. It is dangerous to interpret the Word of God to fit your way of thinking. By the way. Check out John Ankerberg on you tube. It really has a good debate between Walter Martin and a Catholic priest. I will be praying that you eyes and heart would be opened to the truth.
God Bless My Friend.

and i suggest to you my friend to repent and stop follwing the Bible enterpreters and come back to the Church before it is too late for you.

**
“Let us note that the very tradition, teaching, and faith of the
Catholic Church from the beginning, which the Lord gave, was preached
by the Apostles, and was preserved by the Fathers. On this was the Church founded; and if anyone departs from this, he neither is nor any longer ought to be called a Christian.”
St. Athanasius, Letter to Serapion of Thmuis, 359 A.D…**

 

[Seeking12]

At that moment, your past and present are under grace… but, Christ doesn’t tell you in the Gospels that initial faith is all you will ever need for future events.

Use your head, when reading scripture. Paul’s admonitions in all his Epistles are primarily directed to those who have been baptized and professed Christ by initial faith [your situation is no different than theirs].

And, if Paul had believed in OSAS, he wouldn’t of spent alot of his time preaching to the converts, who had fallen back into secular ways.

Don’t you see your scriptural disconnects ?

If you actually have a point, can you spell it out. We are speaking of being saved; either you are or you aren’t. If you want to talk about sanctifying work of the Spirit after one is saved, then we can. You are all over the map and slinging a little mud along the way. Please try to stay focused. Thank you.

 

[Seeking12]

and i suggest to you my friend to repent and stop follwing the Bible enterpreters and come back to the Church before it is too late for you.

**
“Let us note that the very tradition, teaching, and faith of the
Catholic Church from the beginning, which the Lord gave, was preached
by the Apostles, and was preserved by the Fathers. On this was the Church founded; and if anyone departs from this, he neither is nor any longer ought to be called a Christian.”
St. Athanasius, Letter to Serapion of Thmuis, 359 A.D…**

Interesting that the comment of St Athanasius makess claims that you nor anyone else can affirm from Jesus mouth or the Apostles mouths. Unfortunately for him; if he held to those views he is forevermore in a place I would not desire.

 

[BRB1]

If you actually have a point, can you spell it out. We are speaking of being saved; either you are or you aren’t. If you want to talk about sanctifying work of the Spirit after one is saved, then we can. You are all over the map and slinging a little mud along the way. Please try to stay focused. Thank you.

Lets try to further clarify for you.

Paul doesn’t teach OSAS … so why do you buy into the invalid concept ?

 

[wisdomseeker]

Interesting that the comment of St Athanasius makess claims that you nor anyone else can affirm from Jesus mouth or the Apostles mouths. Unfortunately for him; if he held to those views he is forevermore in a place I would not desire.

carefull my friend. you might not go to the place he is. because he is in Heaven.

**
“Let us note that the very tradition, teaching, and faith of the
Catholic Church from the beginning, which the Lord gave, was preached by the Apostles, and was preserved by the Fathers. On this was the Church founded; and if anyone departs from this, he neither is nor any longer ought to be called a Christian.”
St. Athanasius, Letter to Serapion of Thmuis, 359 A.D…**

 

[Seeking12]

Let’s look at it and see if that is really what the verse is actually saying.

Revelation 3:5 He that shall overcome, shall thus be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, and I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h244/corona_stellarum/Smilies/sSig_yeahright.gif

Am I the only one who sees the straight up message that those who don’t overcome will have their names blotted out of the book of life? That means they were in it to begin with and taken out. If that doesn’t scream loss of salvation then I don’t know what does.

**You are reading into the passage a common error when applying your misunderstanding. Taking a poll to see if other natural men can see is a exercise in redundancy.

The message is so simple; Jesus is saying that those who overcome; will be clothed and don’t worry friends you can’t be blotted out.

Often times the Scripture will present a positive, then the negative to emphasize a point. 1 Peter 3 has a few examples, but in this aspect in being consistent with Scripture you don’t get the negative because it doesn’t exist unless, someone like yourself, imposes you misunderstanding on the text. **

 

[Seeking12]

carefull my friend. you might not go to the place he is. because he is in Heaven.

**
“Let us note that the very tradition, teaching, and faith of the
Catholic Church from the beginning, which the Lord gave, was preached by the Apostles, and was preserved by the Fathers. On this was the Church founded; and if anyone departs from this, he neither is nor any longer ought to be called a Christian.”
St. Athanasius, Letter to Serapion of Thmuis, 359 A.D…**

**
The bible is very clear about what happens to those who proclaim a gospel that is not the gospel of Jesus Christ; it is also far worse for those that expose those beliefs to others; like yourself for example.**

 

[BRB1]

OSAS occurs at the moment someone believes in Jesus as both Lord and Savior, then the sanctification process lasts a lifetime, then you are glorified. Romans 8 for more detail.

Romans 8:12-17

So then, [Christian] brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh — for IF YOU LIVE ACCORDING TO THE FLESH YOU WILL DIE, but if by the Spirit YOU PUT TO DEATH the deeds of the body you will live. For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God. For you did not receive the spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but you have received the spirit of sonship. When we cry, “Abba! Father!” it is the Spirit himself bearing witness with our spirit that we are children of God, and if children, then heirs, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, PROVIDED WE SUFFER WITH HIM in order that we MAY ALSO be glorified with him.

So my friend … there it is. From your chosen Roman 8.

Paul talking to Christian converts … telling them OSAS doesn’t AUTOMATICALLY guarantee them Salvation/Glorification. There are things YOU must do AFTER your initial calling [rebirth in H.S.] in Christ. YOU must put to death the works of flesh, must continue in fellowship with H.S., must Suffer for/with Christ … bearing your own cross [via continued DISCIPLESHIP] to your death.

Now, how are YOU gonna do this w/o the help of Church’s guidance and its Sacraments ?

 

[wisdomseeker]

**
The bible is very clear about what happens to those who proclaim a gospel that is not the gospel of Jesus Christ; it is also far worse for those that expose those beliefs to others; like yourself for example.**

yes. sure it is.

we know who is preaching another Gospel, dont we?

to the Church was promised the HS to guide Her into all Thruth. it is all there. on the other hand what i do not see is the promise of the HS to each individual to enterpret the Word of God. do you see it? show me.

**
“Let us note that the very tradition, teaching, and faith of the
Catholic Church from the beginning, which the Lord gave, was preached by the Apostles, and was preserved by the Fathers. On this was the Church founded; and if anyone departs from this, he neither is nor any longer ought to be called a Christian.”
St. Athanasius, Letter to Serapion of Thmuis, 359 A.D…**

 

[BRB1]

** Jesus is saying that those who overcome; will be clothed and don’t worry friends you can’t be blotted out.

Often times the Scripture will present a positive, then the negative to emphasize a point. . **

Can’t be blotted out ??? Much in scripture disagrees with your errant ideas.

Why did Christ so often warn of danger of disbelief/falling away from the Truth ? So you could IGNORE it, putting your head in the sand.

Someday Christ may need to quote the scriptures to you … can you ignore it then ?

Take all the warnings and admonitions in scripture DEAD SERIOUSLY. Again, if OSAS you preach applied … would Christ, Paul, and Peter need to give these warnings to the baby Christians ?

 

[Seeking12]

Romans 8:12-17

So then, [Christian] brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh — for IF YOU LIVE ACCORDING TO THE FLESH YOU WILL DIE, but if by the Spirit YOU PUT TO DEATH the deeds of the body you will live. For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God. For you did not receive the spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but you have received the spirit of sonship. When we cry, “Abba! Father!” it is the Spirit himself bearing witness with our spirit that we are children of God, and if children, then heirs, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, PROVIDED WE SUFFER WITH HIM in order that we MAY ALSO be glorified with him.

So my friend … there it is. From your chosen Roman 8.

Paul talking to Christian converts … telling them OSAS doesn’t AUTOMATICALLY guarantee them Salvation/Glorification. There are things YOU must do AFTER your initial calling [rebirth in H.S.] in Christ. YOU must put to death the works of flesh, must continue in fellowship with H.S., must Suffer for/with Christ … bearing your own cross [via continued DISCIPLESHIP] to your death.

Now, how are YOU gonna do this w/o the help of Church’s guidance and its Sacraments ?

**
Again, you impose your misunderstanding upon the Scripture to support your bias towards your religion rather than seeking what God actually says in His word.

You have the ability to take what I say and test it against your religious teachings, so if you do the same with whatever you are taught, but put it in the light and context of Scripture; you might reach different conclusions about many things. This is what I and others would encourage everyone to do.

You must put Romans into the proper context with the passage and with the whole. Here is the proper context of the passage:
Romans 8:10-16 If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness. 11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you. 12 So then, brethren, we are under obligation, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh-- 13 for if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14 For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. 15 For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you have received a spirit of adoption as sons by which we cry out, “Abba! Father!” 16 The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God,

Look at the first five words of verse 10 “If Christ is in you”, then look at verse 13 “for if you are living according to the flesh”

These are 2 different people, the same two kinds throughout every generation. This is also a good example of the positive and negative I was speaking about with ChurchMilitant.

As for the last part; the suffering is the will of God for all believers because through suffering we drawl closer to God; this is not only God’s will but also part of the sanctification process. Hope this helps your understanding and realize you must read very carefully and prayerfully in order to avoid error. Everyone will make errors, but it should be only a matter of degree; like golf, smaller is better.**

 

[Seeking12]

Can’t be blotted out ??? Much in scripture disagrees with your errant ideas.

Why did Christ so often warn of danger of disbelief/falling away from the Truth ? So you could IGNORE it, putting your head in the sand.

Someday Christ may need to quote the scriptures to you … can you ignore it then ?

Take all the warnings and admonitions in scripture DEAD SERIOUSLY. Again, if OSAS you preach applied … would Christ, Paul, and Peter need to give these warnings to the baby Christians ?

If you are going to continue to just sling mud, then we have no place for dialogue. Please give at least a specific example where someone can be blotted out of the Book of Life, which is the topic right now.