SPLIT: Paying for Faith Formation

[Timothy3_15]

I have lived in many states over the past few years and have had my kids in various parish catechism classes that were free. This is really the way it should be because you shouldn’t charge anything to teach the Holy Faith given to us by Jesus Christ free of charge and handed down to us free of charge for over 2000 years. You especially shouldn’t charge for the sacraments or the reception of the sacraments. Could you ever imaging Jesus charging the apostles a silver piece for their first Eucharist at the last supper? He would never do this because it is a sacrilege to put a price tag on the Body and Blood of Christ who is God. Nor can you put a price tag on what was handed down from Christ as our Faith which He freely gave to us.

When you charge a fee, you are not only behaving like a Judas, you are also making it harder for the poor (the ones Our Lord especially loved and embraced) to receive the Faith and the sacraments.

This has become an issue for me because I just joined a parish in Round Rock, Texas and they are going to charge me $75 for 1st Communion classes for my daughter. They told me that I have to take the class in order for my daughter to receive 1st Communion and that I have to pay. When I ask them if they are going to refuse 1st Communion to my daughter if we don’t pay they simply state that I need to pay for the class for the “materials.” What I say is throw out the materials if that is the barrier to my daughter receiving the sacrament. She doesn’t need materials. She only needs Our Blessed Lord. I teach her every Sunday from the Baltimore Catechism (which is timeless as our Faith is) so she knows everything about the meaning of the Eucharist and has been ready for two years now to receive Our Lord.

I refuse to pay for Faith formation or to pay to receive a sacrament because it’s immoral to do so. Have we forgotten the abuse of Johann Tetzel selling spiritual goods? What penalty the Church paid for his selling spiritual things! What penalty will we pay for charging to learn about Christ and to receive the sacraments?

We all know where the money is going. Judas knew where the money he collected was going. I taught catechism at several Texas parishes in the past and I wasn’t given any money for any of the materials which I paid for out of my own pocket. Nor was I offered anything for these materials. The only thing I was given was a watered down text that could be used in any Protestant church because it didn’t teach the Roman Catholic Faith. In fact the DRE criticized me for teaching about things like confession and original sin which she said the “church” no longer teaches. This was a DRE that was getting paid fulltime.

I’m sure there are many parents who decide to not take their kids to Faith formation because of the charges. I understand how much the materials may cost but there are other ways to remove these costs. You could find a solid catechism and just re-use it every year. Just ask the kids to bring their own pencil and paper and the cost would be 99cents per student per year.

I’m not poor and could pay these charges but refuse to do so because the charges are immoral!

 

[TrueLight]

I have lived in many states over the past few years and have had my kids in various parish catechism classes that were free. This is really the way it should be because you shouldn’t charge anything to teach the Holy Faith given to us by Jesus Christ free of charge and handed down to us free of charge for over 2000 years. You especially shouldn’t charge for the sacraments or the reception of the sacraments. Could you ever imaging Jesus charging the apostles a silver piece for their first Eucharist at the last supper? He would never do this because it is a sacrilege to put a price tag on the Body and Blood of Christ who is God. Nor can you put a price tag on what was handed down from Christ as our Faith which He freely gave to us.

When you charge a fee, you are not only behaving like a Judas, you are also making it harder for the poor (the ones Our Lord especially loved and embraced) to receive the Faith and the sacraments.

This has become an issue for me because I just joined a parish in Round Rock, Texas and they are going to charge me $75 for 1st Communion classes for my daughter. They told me that I have to take the class in order for my daughter to receive 1st Communion and that I have to pay. When I ask them if they are going to refuse 1st Communion to my daughter if we don’t pay they simply state that I need to pay for the class for the “materials.” What I say is throw out the materials if that is the barrier to my daughter receiving the sacrament. She doesn’t need materials. She only needs Our Blessed Lord. I teach her every Sunday from the Baltimore Catechism (which is timeless as our Faith is) so she knows everything about the meaning of the Eucharist and has been ready for two years now to receive Our Lord.

I refuse to pay for Faith formation or to pay to receive a sacrament because it’s immoral to do so. Have we forgotten the abuse of Johann Tetzel selling spiritual goods? What penalty the Church paid for his selling spiritual things! What penalty will we pay for charging to learn about Christ and to receive the sacraments?

We all know where the money is going. Judas knew where the money he collected was going. I taught catechism at several Texas parishes in the past and I wasn’t given any money for any of the materials which I paid for out of my own pocket. Nor was I offered anything for these materials. The only thing I was given was a watered down text that could be used in any Protestant church because it didn’t teach the Roman Catholic Faith. In fact the DRE criticized me for teaching about things like confession and original sin which she said the “church” no longer teaches. This was a DRE that was getting paid fulltime.

I’m sure there are many parents who decide to not take their kids to Faith formation because of the charges. I understand how much the materials may cost but there are other ways to remove these costs. You could find a solid catechism and just re-use it every year. Just ask the kids to bring their own pencil and paper and the cost would be 99cents per student per year.

I’m not poor and could pay these charges but refuse to do so because the charges are immoral!

I agree. I don’t think one should pay for faith formation.

But if you don’t have a tithing church, what do you do?

I don’t know why Catholics seem to be allergic to tithing.

I don’t want to derail the thread. Maybe I’ll start a new one, but I suspect there are enough threads on tithing.

 

[jmcrae]

I’m not poor and could pay these charges but refuse to do so because the charges are immoral!

We pay thousands of dollars a year to give our children a secular education in math and sciences, which will be of use to them during a career of 40-50 years - yet, for their eternal soul, $75.00 for one year only, is too much to pay.

I agree that the parish should be responsible for the costs, through tithing, but nobody tithes - they all say, Oh, that is someone else’s responsibility; not mine.

 

[Irishgal49]

Children or adults? Schools cost a lot of money to run. They have to pay teachers and staff, cover utility costs and maintainence, etc, as well as books and materials. So I see some compensation for all that as fair.
Adult faith formation classes…I see that differently. Most RCIA classes have volunteer teachers, and use Church facilities. I’ve never heard of them being charged for.

There are a lot of people who would be too embarassed to admit they don’t have the $$ to pay for the class. I would say make it zero and explain that people can offer donations. If you have a lot of books then tell people they can pay it or not by marking it on an offering envelope and dumping it in the plate.

 

[Timothy3_15]

Sorry if I’ve fallen out of the posting etiquette but the post was exactly what I’m experiencing today at the parish that I’m going to. I have to meet the DRE in a week to discuss this and I need to understand the issue well.

For the complaint about low tithing parishes, I think you’re going about it the wrong way. If you want generous parishioners, you need a generous and FAITHFUL staff first. Whenever I’m in a parish and the priest or staff berrate everyone about paying more every second they get, it just reminds me of Judas. What you need to realize is that God will provide all that you need.

The truth is that many parishes have become financially irresponsible like most of the world today that has gotten deep in debt with the big bankers. God has blessed my family but I have always lived below my means so I haven’t had a single loan for a decade now (for exa: we live in an RV though I could easily afford a home). Most of these parishes that are harping for MORE MONEY are handing most of the money they collect to the big bankers to whom they owe large sums of money to. It really is their fault NOT MINE that they are deep in debt. It isn’t my responsibility to service THEIR debt. There is a reason the Church used to condemn usury. The parish staff should lead the world by example by having ZERO debt. If that was the case then they would never be tempted to charge for the sacraments and other blessings from God which is anathema!

The parishes are already making way more than they need. I visited Central America quite a bit lately and very few members tithe a few coins and week and the parish makes due. It isn’t that much cheaper down there but they haven’t taken out the enormous loans after building these huge modern churches but use churches that are hundreds of years old.

There is one church here in central Austin which makes more money than any other parish. The pastor there has always over extended himself no matter what. His debts could have been paid off but he decided to build this huge personal chapel. I just checked the bulletin and he’s still complaining that he can’t pay his bills after a decade and a half!

I don’t think you should ever pay anyone for service to the church because you get people (like Judas) who become focused on the money and not so much on the free spiritual gifts which Our Lord has given to us to give to others. God will always provide to those who truly need especially for those who are serving Him directly as caterers of his gifts. If any DRE or parish doubts that then it’s probably time to have a change of staff. Again, generosity begets generosity. If DRE’s and the parish staff are generous not wanting to take the money from the members of the parish then the parish will respond knowing that the staff is truly doing to work of Our Lord and not the work of Judas.

 

[Memaw]

Sorry if I’ve fallen out of the posting etiquette but the post was exactly what I’m experiencing today at the parish that I’m going to. I have to meet the DRE in a week to discuss this and I need to understand the issue well.

For the complaint about low tithing parishes, I think you’re going about it the wrong way. If you want generous parishioners, you need a generous and FAITHFUL staff first. Whenever I’m in a parish and the priest or staff berrate everyone about paying more every second they get, it just reminds me of Judas. What you need to realize is that God will provide all that you need.

The truth is that many parishes have become financially irresponsible like most of the world today that has gotten deep in debt with the big bankers. God has blessed my family but I have always lived below my means so I haven’t had a single loan for a decade now (for exa: we live in an RV though I could easily afford a home). Most of these parishes that are harping for MORE MONEY are handing most of the money they collect to the big bankers to whom they owe large sums of money to. It really is their fault NOT MINE that they are deep in debt. It isn’t my responsibility to service THEIR debt. There is a reason the Church used to condemn usury. The parish staff should lead the world by example by having ZERO debt. If that was the case then they would never be tempted to charge for the sacraments and other blessings from God which is anathema!

The parishes are already making way more than they need. I visited Central America quite a bit lately and very few members tithe a few coins and week and the parish makes due. It isn’t that much cheaper down there but they haven’t taken out the enormous loans after building these huge modern churches but use churches that are hundreds of years old.

There is one church here in central Austin which makes more money than any other parish. The pastor there has always over extended himself no matter what. His debts could have been paid off but he decided to build this huge personal chapel. I just checked the bulletin and he’s still complaining that he can’t pay his bills after a decade and a half!

I don’t think you should ever pay anyone for service to the church because you get people (like Judas) who become focused on the money and not so much on the free spiritual gifts which Our Lord has given to us to give to others. God will always provide to those who truly need especially for those who are serving Him directly as caterers of his gifts. If any DRE or parish doubts that then it’s probably time to have a change of staff. Again, generosity begets generosity. If DRE’s and the parish staff are generous not wanting to take the money from the members of the parish then the parish will respond knowing that the staff is truly doing to work of Our Lord and not the work of Judas.

OH PLEASE. Let’s don’t get carried away here. I know families, ( relatives included.) that think nothing of going out to eat and pay big bucks to do so, and also spend lots of money on the latest gadgets, concerts, clothes etc. but still complain or even refuse to send their kids to CCD because they have a small charge to cover cost of materials etc. If a family honestly can’t pay, they are not excluded. Some of us really need to get our priorities straight. God Bless, Memaw

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

By faith formation do you mean RCIA? In that case I believe it is absolutely wrong. The way to sacraments has always been, and should continue to be free for all.

 

[MelbaTozt]

I think what this boils down to is should a Parish require payment in order to receive a Holy Sacrament.

Yes, they need money. Yes, there are costs.

But at what point is it right to put a dollar amount on a sacrament? If that’s the case, why not charge charge hundreds, or thousands!

I don’t understand why a parish could not have bake sales or suggest a donation. (At the very least do what other schools and charities do.)

If parishes are so poor that they cannot afford to offer sacraments for free, perhaps they should scale back on the obnoxious building/real estate expansions that I have seen from coast to coast over the past two decades.

For a parish to be in debt over a new building, but to be charging for a child to receive a sacrament is miles away from the intent and purpose of Christianity.

 

[MelbaTozt]

This is what I see happening:

The sacrament is free, but you are required to attend religious education in order to receive the sacrament.

Religious education will cost $75.

Is this right?

 

[Corki]

By faith formation do you mean RCIA? In that case I believe it is absolutely wrong. The way to sacraments has always been, and should continue to be free for all.

Well, since this thread is FIVE years old, I am guessing but “faith formation” usually refers to the ongoing Religious Education program - also called CCD, CCE, PSR, etc.

It isn’t, and can’t be free. The diocese requires that programs use only appoved material from approved publishers. Most diocese require that the teachers receive ongoing training. The classes are usually held inside buildings - not in public parks - so there is an expense for lights, heat, A/C, paint, plumbing, etc.

The question can’t be “is it free?” but rather, since there is a cost, who should pay?

There is no one-size-fits-all answer to that question since each parish and each diocese has different financial situations.

 

[Corki]

This is what I see happening:

The sacrament is free, but you are required to attend religious education in order to receive the sacrament.

Religious education will cost $75.

Is this right?

Almost.

1. For most of the Sacraments, the person receiving the Sacrament must demonstrate readiness for the Sacrament.
2. When you are talking about children, the parents must also demonstrate that the children are receiving on-going education in the faith.
3. The easiest way for most parents to do that is to send their children to classes held in the parish.
4. The portion of the cost for those classes that families pay varies by parish.

 

[Jean_Anthony]

aaa

 

[EasterJoy]

Since the original post is pulled off of a very old thread, the OP is long gone.

Is there anyone actually in this situation reading this? Anyone making the decision to set the amounts parents who are able need to cover, any parishioners who are advocating that the cost for this at their parish come out of their parish’s general fund, any parents who have an opinion one way or the other about being asked to contribute toward the cost of sacramental preparation?

I’m sort in a position to put my two cents in at my parish about what contribution is requested for sacramental prep, but if no one in those groups is even reading this, I wonder what difference it makes what any of the rest of us post to the ether?

 

[MelbaTozt]

To use the same logic, providing Communion has costs as well. Should we have someone take cash and checks in front of the line before one is allowed to receive the Sacrament?

There isn’t a sacrament that doesn’t incur some costs. The question is, do we charge per sacrament or rely on God to provide volunteers and tithes from those who are moved to do so?

Furthermore, it seems that religious education in the Church has befallen the same fate of public education: the more money we throw at it, the less our kids learn.

We’ve never relied on mandatory classes to teach our children the Faith. We’ve sent them because it is mandatory in order to receive the sacraments. Ask my kids what they’ve learned and they’ll tell you “arts and crafts.”

 

[Corki]

To use the same logic, providing Communion has costs as well. Should we have someone take cash and checks in front of the line before one is allowed to receive the Sacrament?

There isn’t a sacrament that doesn’t incur some costs. The question is, do we charge per sacrament or rely on God to provide volunteers and tithes from those who are moved to do so?

Everything has costs and there are many ways to pay for them. The two you suggested are both options but not the only options. Most parishes use a blend of sources. My parish, for example charges a nominal fee per student which is not even a fraction of the full cost of providing classes. This is for all grades, by the way, not just Sacrament years. The balance of the expense is covered by the parish (accumulated tithes) and through donations. It seems to work for us.

Of course, if you are volunteering to underwrite the cost of the program, just let me know.

 

[Corki]

Since the original post is pulled off of a very old thread, the OP is long gone.

Is there anyone actually in this situation reading this? Anyone making the decision to set the amounts parents who are able need to cover, any parishioners who are advocating that the cost for this at their parish come out of their parish’s general fund, any parents who have an opinion one way or the other about being asked to contribute toward the cost of sacramental preparation?

I’m sort in a position to put my two cents in at my parish about what contribution is requested for sacramental prep, but if no one in those groups is even reading this, I wonder what difference it makes what any of the rest of us post to the ether?

I would say I am in that position. I just wrote the check for my kids’ CCE registration. And I was part of a small group of CCE teachers that the DRE assembled to brainstorm our fee structure.

 

[MelbaTozt]

To be clear, I don’t have a problem with parishes charging for religious ed. classes. I have a problem when they charge for a class that is mandatory in order to receive a sacrament.

If this is to be the case, then I propose that we should be required to pay a fee for Last Rites, too. Gas, anointing oils and a meal should run around $10-$20 depending on how far the priest must travel. Who is going to pay for those things, especially with the price of gas these days?

Baptism is a pretty big-ticket item, too. How shall we price that one?

 

[Memaw]

To be clear, I don’t have a problem with parishes charging for religious ed. classes. I have a problem when they charge for a class that is mandatory in order to receive a sacrament.

If this is to be the case, then I propose that we should be required to pay a fee for Last Rites, too. Gas, anointing oils and a meal should run around $10-$20 depending on how far the priest must travel. Who is going to pay for those things, especially with the price of gas these days?

Baptism is a pretty big-ticket item, too. How shall we price that one? /QUOTE

Let’s get funny!!, God Bless, Memaw

 

[KarenElissa]

If parishes are so poor that they cannot afford to offer sacraments for free, perhaps they should scale back on the obnoxious building/real estate expansions that I have seen from coast to coast over the past two decades.

The only thing I was given was a watered down text that could be used in any Protestant church because it didn’t teach the Roman Catholic Faith. In fact the DRE criticized me for teaching about things like confession and original sin which she said the “church” no longer teaches. This was a DRE that was getting paid fulltime.

Whenever I’m in a parish and the priest or staff berrate everyone about paying more every second they get, it just reminds me of Judas. What you need to realize is that God will provide all that you need.

The truth is that many parishes have become financially irresponsible like most of the world today that has gotten deep in debt with the big bankers.

Ask my kids what they’ve learned and they’ll tell you “arts and crafts.”

To me it sounds like you are using this thread to vent about WAY more than the fact that parishes are charging for RE. It might be easier to deal with the issues directly instead of launching into a whole bunch of rants.

 

[jmcrae]

The truth is that many parishes have become financially irresponsible like most of the world today that has gotten deep in debt with the big bankers. God has blessed my family but I have always lived below my means so I haven’t had a single loan for a decade now (for exa: we live in an RV though I could easily afford a home). Most of these parishes that are harping for MORE MONEY are handing most of the money they collect to the big bankers to whom they owe large sums of money to. It really is their fault NOT MINE that they are deep in debt. It isn’t my responsibility to service THEIR debt. There is a reason the Church used to condemn usury. The parish staff should lead the world by example by having ZERO debt. If that was the case then they would never be tempted to charge for the sacraments and other blessings from God which is anathema!

Whether or not it is a sin to be in debt, it has nothing to do with the parish staff - even the priest can only work there for five years at maximum - it is the members of the parish - those who live in the neighborhood - who decide what loans to take out for their parish church, and what building projects they want to do. These things have absolutely nothing to do with the parish staff - they can only work with what they are given by the members of the parish who are on the Finance Council - that is to say, you and your fellow parishioners. It is your decision, as a person who lives in your parish boundaries, what debts your parish takes on, or not.

If you have chosen not to participate in the life of your parish, that is also not the fault of your parish staff members.

There is one church here in central Austin which makes more money than any other parish. The pastor there has always over extended himself no matter what. His debts could have been paid off but he decided to build this huge personal chapel. I just checked the bulletin and he’s still complaining that he can’t pay his bills after a decade and a half!

He cannot have even been there for “a decade and a half.” He is only allowed to be in the same parish for five years at maximum. He has obviously inherited his predecessor’s predecessor’s debt - if it was ever the priest’s debt to begin with.

I don’t think you should ever pay anyone for service to the church because you get people (like Judas) who become focused on the money and not so much on the free spiritual gifts which Our Lord has given to us to give to others. God will always provide to those who truly need especially for those who are serving Him directly as caterers of his gifts. If any DRE or parish doubts that then it’s probably time to have a change of staff. Again, generosity begets generosity. If DRE’s and the parish staff are generous not wanting to take the money from the members of the parish then the parish will respond knowing that the staff is truly doing to work of Our Lord and not the work of Judas.

I know lots of programs that are run entirely by volunteers - they typically are not very successful, because people’s day jobs get in the way.

For example, how are you supposed to go and visit the schools during school hours to talk to the children about the Sacraments, if you work from 9 to 5 to pay your bills, and can only meet the youth in the evenings? (But they have never seen you before, and their parents don’t know you, so they don’t come, because you never visit the schools … )