SPLIT: Questions Catholics Will Not Answer.

  • Thread starter Thread starter Old_Scholar
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Old_Scholar said:
Well since I can’t find the answers to those questions, perhaps hyou could show me where they were answered, or maybe answer them yourselves. I’ll copy them one by one. Here is the first one that hasn’t been answered:

“How do the Roman Catholics, who can read, know for certain that the priest is faithfully teaching the dogma, canons and edicts of councils if they do not possess copies of such documents?”
Click to expand...
Take your time…?You’re crazy if you think I’m going back and play this time wasting game with you.

You can go back and respond to the posts or not, it really doesn’t matter because you’ve already tried to allege that no one has answered you in the face of glaring evidence to the contrary in the form of 41 pages of discussion and over 600 posts.

At this point I think the title of this thread should be changed to “Questions Old Scholar Cannot Or Will Not Answer.”

You posted and have been substantially answered in every particular. If you want to carry on this discussion then you need to go back to post #2 and quote it and either refute it or admit that you can’t. At this point…I’m beginning to think you really can’t respond with facts because your posts have been largely just rhetorical so far.
Pax said:
This is utterly disingenuous…read the thread.
Click to expand...
I pretty much have to agree with you. 🤷
 
Pax said:
This is utterly disingenuous…read the thread.
Click to expand...
Sounds like time to begin clicking on the “Triangle of death”. This is intractable anti-Catholicism in any court of law. I know that some will say “No, just give him 600 posts and he’ll get it” If he only understood how many wavering Protestants and those undecided he has sent our way, he’d… well, you know.
 
Old_Scholar said:
Well since I can’t find the answers to those questions, perhaps hyou could show me where they were answered, or maybe answer them yourselves. I’ll copy them one by one. Here is the first one that hasn’t been answered:

“How do the Roman Catholics, who can read, know for certain that the priest is faithfully teaching the dogma, canons and edicts of councils if they do not possess copies of such documents?”

Take your time…?
Click to expand...
I am not near as bright as you are or as bright as the other people who have been patient enough to answer your questions. In my opinion they have answered you very well. As part of the rank and file or “laity” I believe I can give you a simple answer. With an observation about your behavior on this thread. Your arguments are quite similar to Jehovah’s witnesses. Your arguments make it clear that you believe the rank and file of the Catholic Church are ignorant knucklehead’s and that is exactly what the watchtower teaches their tract peddlers, so they believe it without ascertaining the facts. You may be able to compete with people who say they are catholic and are not but you do not seem to be able to differentiate between practicing Catholics and the ignorant masses who make a type of inherited claim to the name. If a priest or bishop makes a statement that is at odds with what I believe I investigate. If you would get a copy of the City of God written about 1600 years ago, and read it then you might understand rather continue spinning your wheels it your own mud which you are apparently doing now. newadvent.org/fathers/1201.htm
 
po18guy said:
Sounds like time to begin clicking on the “Triangle of death”. This is intractable anti-Catholicism in any court of law. I know that some will say “No, just give him 600 posts and he’ll get it” If he only understood how many wavering Protestants and those undecided he has sent our way, he’d… well, you know.
Click to expand...
Your probably right. It’s like trying to light a candle in a pitch dark room so the other occupant can see but they keep blowing it out. But now I am the eternal curious one what dose the “Triangle of death” refer to, if I dare ask?
 
Old_Scholar said:
The writers of the New Testament who were with Christ during His ministry were: Peter, John, James, Matthew and Mark.

Luke was a companion of Paul but he says he was not an eyewitness with Christ. Luke has been said to have been one of the 70 disciples however and it is obvious the writers of the gospel were with Christ. Mark was a companion of Peter and Peter at one time called him his son.
Click to expand...
The Gospels were written anonymously- there was no author stated. the names we get for the Gospels come the ECF from Tradition- the same Tradition you reject .Must be nice to pick and choose which traditions you should listen to and which to deny. After all the Names of the Gospels are not written in scripture- so they are not scripturally based .And it they aren’t Bible based how can you trust it?Quite a conundrum:D
 
geraldffff said:
Your probably right. It’s like trying to light a candle in a pitch dark room so the other occupant can see but they keep blowing it out. But now I am the eternal curious one what dose the “Triangle of death” refer to, if I dare ask?
Click to expand...
In the upper right corner of each post there is a red and white triangle with an exclamation point in it. If there is a post, or series of posts, that are patently offensive, or demean the Catholic faith, or otherwise break forum rules, you can click on it and report the post. You will see some members who have “banned” beneath their names. They violated the rules time after time. That type comes here only to cause grief, make an ignorant point or just to insult. Other members who are inquiring into the faith do not need to be exposed to such. So, we click on the triangle. The moderator then looks into it. We use the triangle sparingly, or it can be like crying “wolf”.

Christ’s peace.
 
Old_Scholar said:
“How do the Roman Catholics, who can read, know for certain that the priest is faithfully teaching the dogma, canons and edicts of councils if they do not possess copies of such documents?”
Click to expand...
Take your time…?

Throughout the world, the DAILY services held religiously follow the same Church calendar - and the readings during the Mass are SURPRISE!!! from the Bible.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church is available to everyone, not just the guy with the big hat, and not just Catholics…

Happy reading, OS -

& God bless you.
 
Old_Scholar said:
“How do the Roman Catholics, who can read, know for certain that the priest is faithfully teaching the dogma, canons and edicts of councils if they do not possess copies of such documents?”
Click to expand...
Take your time…?

Throughout the world, the DAILY services held religiously follow the same Church calendar - and the same readings during every Mass are SURPRISE!!! from the Bible.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church is available to everyone, not just the guy with the big hat, and not just Catholics…

Happy reading, OS -

& God bless you.
 
**
Are you searching for truth?**

John 14:6
Jesus said to him, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me

John 8:32
and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free."

John 18:37
So Pilate said to him, “Then you are a king?” Jesus answered, “You say I am a king. For this I was born and for this I came into the world, to testify to the truth. Everyone who belongs to the truth listens to my voice.”

How do we know the truth? The Bible?

Romans 2:25
Circumcision, to be sure, has value if you observe the law; but if you break the law, your circumcision has become uncircumcision.

Circumcision or no circumcision?

Romans 3:1 -2
What advantage is there then in being a Jew? Or what is the value of circumcision?
2
Much, in every respect. (For) in the first place, they were entrusted with the utterances of God.

GALATIONS 5:2
It is I, Paul, who am telling you that if you have yourselves circumcised, Christ will be of no benefit to you

FAITH OR WORKS OR BOTH?

** Individual Interpretation of Scripture is not biblical **

2 Peter 3:16

2 Peter 1:20

Acts 8:27

We need guides, teachers

Where do we look for truth?

The Church

1 Corinthians 12:28
Some people God has designated in the church to be, first, apostles; second, prophets; third, teachers; then, mighty deeds; then, gifts of healing, assistance, administration, and varieties of tongues.

1 Timothy 3:15
But if I should be delayed, **you should know how to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of truth. **

Which Church?

A: Catholic Church - c**.33ad**.

B: Orthodox Churches - 10 - 12 different churches - 1054 ad.

C: Protestant Denominations - 25,000 + denominations - after 1517 ad.

Three Possibilities Regarding Christianity

A. Jesus established more than one church

B. Jesus established an invisible, abstract, spiritual church in which all believers, regardless of denomination, are members. In this church, either:
(1) Doctrine does not matter, or
(2) Conflicting and contradictory doctrines are acceptable.

C. Jesus established one Church, which is visible and in which doctrine matters and does not conflict. This church contains the fullness of truth as revealed by God; all others have partial truth, at best.

A,B or C?

Jesus established more than one church…NO!

Matthew 16:18
And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my** church**, and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it.

?Church? - singular

John 10:16
I have other sheep that do not belong to this fold. These also I must lead, and they will hear my voice, and there will be **one flock, one shepherd. **

One ?flock? - not 25,000+

Ephesians 1:22
And he put all things beneath his feet and gave him as head over all things to the church

More here:
biblechristiansociety.com/

One Body,One Bride,One Church,One Flock,
One Mind, One Spirit, One Lord, One Faith,
One Baptism,One Shepherd,One Heart,
One Voice,
One

Matthew 18:17

17
If he refuses to listen to them, tell the church. **If he refuses to listen even to the church, then treat him as you would a Gentile or a tax collector. **

The Apostles were the begining of the church. With them out preaching the Good News “Gospel” more members were added, the church grew. It became universal so it then was called The Universal Church.In Greek it is Katholikós that is where we get the word Catholic in our language. The Apostles did not start writing until witnesses began dying. We did not get all the Scripture into one book almost 400 years later. The Catholic Church was on it’s 39th pope by then. And the Protestants did not start “protesting” against the church Christ left us until over **1000 years **later.
 
So yes “The Catholic Church” is responsible for the New Testament and for deciding what books to put into the one book.

It was first called

“La Biblia Sacra Vulgata”

The Sacred Books in the common language.

Then later

The Holy Bible

You can thank St. Jerome the translator and secretary who was commisioned for the job by Pope Damasas I

Thats right a pope!
 
Old_Scholar said:
Well since I can’t find the answers to those questions, perhaps hyou could show me where they were answered, or maybe answer them yourselves. I’ll copy them one by one. Here is the first one that hasn’t been answered:

“How do the Roman Catholics, who can read, know for certain that the priest is faithfully teaching the dogma, canons and edicts of councils if they do not possess copies of such documents?”

Take your time…?
Click to expand...
Hmm. Catholics who can read. Hmmmm… Let me think. Before copies of documents were widely available, we had to trust our pastors. BTW, at ordination, one of the promises they made was to uphold the Faith. So the trust factor was supported by our confidence in their vows. They might wander off, as sinners sometimes do, but there’s a network and there’s the Bishop, and there’s accountability. Always has been.

Doubtless the answer you are looking for, and the only answer you will accept, is that Catholics would go to their Bible and “search the Scriptures” to check up on him.

Yeah. We can do that. But “checking up” on our Pastors would mostly be a waste of time since they are very well trained through stringent 8-year seminary formation programs. A good priest (and most of them are) is well-equipped on many fronts at much greater depth than the average layman needs to be.

The Catholic Faith is simple enough for a child to embrace but deep, wide, complex and rich enough to engage great minds and hearts because it encompasses the entire universe under the grace of God.

Underneath a Catholic’s obedience of faith lies a great fund of wisdom and a great deposit of trust.
 
Mannyfit75 said:
Teflon made a correct statement. He believed in Jesus Christ, and he also believe what Jesus said that we must eat his flesh and drink his blood. If you deny, this you deny Jesus’ words. Believing goes much deeper than just mere belief. Even the Devil believe and he is in hell. You have to believe everything what Jesus said. That is why Teflon said, “No Eucharist, no salvation.”

I also think you miss the point. In Catholic theology, the consecrated Eucharist is Jesus Christ.

I can easily write rephrase this: “No Jesus, no Salvation.”

“No Blessed Eucharist, No Salvation.”

What we, Catholics, received before the alter is the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world. Before our alter, we have the same Jesus before us. The same Jesus who died at the cross, the same Jesus who is at the Right Hand of God.
Click to expand...
Manny, you’ve tipped my hand. I was hoping that Pwrfltr and others might look at the Catechism, look at John 6, and make this very linkage.

Catholics do not have a legalistic view of salvation, contrary to some misperceptions. Rather, we believe one must believe and obey. Those who willfully misread John 6 in particular to justify the disobedience of long-dead Protestant leaders in essence are putting these leaders ahead of Christ, and certainly ahead of the apostle John, in interpreting Christ’s will and Scripture.

Of course, my very point was that those who claim to be fundamentalists and Biblical literalists suddenly wax metaphorical and symbolic when it comes to passages of the Bible which, when read literally, support the Catholic position against the Protestant ones.
 
Pier said:
Throughout the world, the DAILY services held religiously follow the same Church calendar - and the same readings during every Mass are SURPRISE!!! from the Bible.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church is available to everyone, not just the guy with the big hat, and not just Catholics…

Happy reading, OS -

& God bless you.
Click to expand...
Plus The Catechism of the Catholic Church is on-line too!

scborromeo.org/ccc.htm
 
Church_Militant said:
You’re crazy if you think I’m going back and play this time wasting game with you.

You can go back and respond to the posts or not, it really doesn’t matter because you’ve already tried to allege that no one has answered you in the face of glaring evidence to the contrary in the form of 41 pages of discussion and over 600 posts.

At this point I think the title of this thread should be changed to “Questions Old Scholar Cannot Or Will Not Answer.”

You posted and have been substantially answered in every particular. If you want to carry on this discussion then you need to go back to post #2 and quote it and either refute it or admit that you can’t. At this point…I’m beginning to think you really can’t respond with facts because your posts have been largely just rhetorical so far.I pretty much have to agree with you. 🤷
Click to expand...
Perhaps now is the time we start a thread titled “Questions Old Scholar Cannot Or Will Not Answer.” ?!?!?
 
CentralFLJames said:
Let me jump in to offer an opinion.
Popular speculation among the laity of The Catholic Church is that Protestant preachers function like multi-level marketing coaches and sponsors (e.g. like Amway or Mary Kay product dealers and the like). They are responsible for getting a new person up to speed to a rudimentary level of scripture knowledge so the new converts can in confidence start their own private interpretation and exegesis. But just as soon as a new member starts claiming that the Pastor is “non-biblical” or starts bucking the leadership they know that the contagion has matured and its time to cut these lose to start their own new “down-line”. At that time they send them over to Catholic Forums to see if they can recruit fallen away Catholics or other lurking Protestants from other competing Protestant sects to start their own new breakaway sect. 😃

James
Click to expand...
Thank you James. Well said.
 
Church_Militant said:
At this point I think the title of this thread should be changed to “Questions Old Scholar Cannot Or Will Not Answer.”
Click to expand...
May I add one Please… OK really two

OS or PL when did the Holy Spirit leave the Catholic Church and stop leading it unto all truth? Jn 16:13, Jn 14:16, 26

And if you have an answer to that, then doesn’t that nullify the infallability of the Bible which you claim you stand on entirely?

Now discard all your protestant thoughts, stop rebelling against the Trinity and its Bride the One Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church and reread the Bible cover to cover with a completely open mind Knowing that Christ founded only one Church. I think you will find out that each and every one of the original questions was completely unnessesary to even be answered by us, you’ll find them yourselves.

May God bless and protect us,
JLC
 
mercygate said:
…

So I plead guilty: I read John 6 “like a Catholic.”
Click to expand...
Funny thing is, I too read John 6 “like a Catholic” before I was Catholic.

I had just done a Bible study on Genesis, and then in Church we started one on John. It really struck me as sad? Odd? 🤷 that the same people who were insisiting that the earth was only 6,000 years old, were the same ones who were insisting we couldn’t take that passage literally in John 6.

Today, there are more and more “non-denominational Bible” Christians who while are not becoming Catholic, read those same verses and believe in the Real Presence of Christ because the bible says so.

Not Catholic, disagree with Catholics in many regards yet they too, are reading it “like a Catholic” in the respect that they too read it as the Real Presence of Christ.

But I guess these Bible Christians are just ignoring scripture and basing their beliefs on Catholic doctrine that they actually reject in many other facets.:rolleyes:
 
MariaG said:
Funny thing is, I too read John 6 “like a Catholic” before I was Catholic.

I had just done a Bible study on Genesis, and then in Church we started one on John. It really struck me as sad? Odd? 🤷 that the same people who were insisiting that the earth was only 6,000 years old, were the same ones who were insisting we couldn’t take that passage literally in John 6.

Today, there are more and more “non-denominational Bible” Christians who while are not becoming Catholic, read those same verses and believe in the Real Presence of Christ because the bible says so.

Not Catholic, disagree with Catholics in many regards yet they too, are reading it “like a Catholic” in the respect that they too read it as the Real Presence of Christ.

But I guess these Bible Christians are just ignoring scripture and basing their beliefs on Catholic doctrine that they actually reject in many other facets.:rolleyes:
Click to expand...
Basically the only cannon Protestants have is very simple: 1) Sola Scriptura and 2) anything that is opposed to Catholicism.

Condition 2 renders condition 1 fraudulent and automatically biased.

James
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top