Split: Science was invented by the Church

[Todd520]

I think the best you can get out of this is -
The Catholic Church allowed a Catholic man to publish his idea on Science
The Church was reactive to Bacon, not proactive

From the [Wikipedia article](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger Bacon) linked above:

Bacon circumvented this restriction through his acquaintance with Cardinal Guy le Gros de Foulques, who became Pope Clement IV in 1265. The new Pope issued a mandate ordering Bacon to write to him concerning the place of philosophy within theology. As a result Bacon sent the Pope his Opus Majus, which presented his views on how the philosophy of Aristotle and the new science could be incorporated into a new Theology. Besides the Opus maius Bacon also sent his Opus minus, De multiplicatione specierum, and, perhaps, other works on alchemy and astrology.

 

[Cat_Herder]

I think the best you can get out of this is -
The Catholic Church allowed a Catholic man to publish his idea on Science
The Church was reactive to Bacon, not proactive

He was a Franciscan. Franciscans were mendicants back then. The Church was his employer, fed him, bought his books, etc.

 

[Cat_Herder]

Which cumulated in… The scientific method. All science thereafter is based on it.

and many Catholics have been great scientists, but so have many members Nine Two’s Church and so have many Protestants.

Sure, but the Protestants came later and so used Bacon’s work and owe him their debt. He finished what the Orthodox (Byzantines) had started.

 

[Araninski]

…

What does science mean? Knowledge, the Catholic Church created knowledge, wow!

The Catholic Church supported the investigation of science, not that it was invented by the Catholic Church and it did not always supported it. Galileo was called an heretic by the Catholic Church, because of an “infallible interpretation” “it” made, well.

Science has been the contribution of the man’s knowledge throughout the times.

I have a question for OP. There are Catholics who believe Evolution is true, other Catholics who believe Creationism is true. Here there is disunity of beliefs, on an very important matter So by the way you interpret Paul’s words, you are wrong in saying there is unity in the Catholic Church. Confusion? Where there is confusion there is division?

I know people are going to come and say to me anti-Catholic, well think whatever you want about me. I respect the Catholic Church and the contribution it has made. The Catholic Church evangelized in every place (a value that is starting to banish) and thanks to it the society, I live in is a little Christian. This help me , to grew in an Christian environment and got me the chance to know Christ . I am not Catholic, but I don’t deny the Catholic Church has a lot of great works or think it is evil. It supported science, medicine and many more. And the moral teachings are conservative, which is very good. Please don’t judge me as anti-Catholic.

 

[KathleenGee]

Everybody in the trade world in those times had pretty much the same concept of the earth…where Galileo went off is when he delved into theology…and that was what the Church was reacting to – his theology he developed from his science.

Faith, reason, science – are all compatible and enhance each other. Faith has only one Absolute, that is God; science is an ongoing discovery of God’s creation. There are many scientists who believe in God and see the work of intelligence through it.

 

[KathleenGee]

Pope John Paul II saw the place for evolution within the belief that God created this world. If we knew how He did it, we would share in the spotlight. In regards to Charles Darwin, we forget about the Austrian monk Mengel and his own study of genetics.

Let it be known…you will never hear it in the secular news, but that Mexico – because of the Catholic Church and the push for education for women and girls as early in the 1500’s when America didn’t – was the center for education and learning in the New World. The educational system was destroyed by the Masonic Revolution. The Indian professors were present and active in that same period in developing their universities.

It was the Catholic Church that erected educational institutions as well as hospitals, hospice for the general populace, as well as cultivate the arts and musics.

And it is only the Catholic Church who has been unwavering in its defense that human life is sacred.

 

[Cat_Herder]

…

What does science mean? Knowledge, the Catholic Church created knowledge, wow!

The Catholic Church invented the**** scientific method****. There was science before, sure, but not modern science based on experimentation and independent verification.

The Catholic Church supported the investigation of science, not that it was invented by the Catholic Church and it did not always supported it. Galileo was called an heretic by the Catholic Church, because of an “infallible interpretation” “it” made, well.

Galileo was never condemned. He was found suspect of heresy. His science was not condemned. If you don’t believe me then explain why Copernicus, who was also heliocentric, was never examined.

And the determination on Galileo was certainly not a product of the infallible magisterium. Please study up on how the Church works.

I have a question for OP. There are Catholics who believe Evolution is true, other Catholics who believe Creationism is true.

All Catholics believe that Creationism is true. We are free to turn to science for answers on how the world was in fact created and how long it took. Thus we can accept Creationism AND evolution, but not the latter alone.

P.S. there is a moratorium on creation-evolution threads in place at the moment. Please do not derail this thread into that area.

 

[joe370]

Hey cat…

So you would say that the Greek pagans invented philosophy and democracy, but the Catholic Church didn’t invent the scientific method?

Cat, can you prove that the CC, as an institution, invented science? I don’t believe every branch of science has its roots firmly ensconced in the CC. I will admit that I do not know, with certainty, who invented science. Can we really even narrow it down to just one institution? I don’t think so.

 

[Cat_Herder]

Hey cat…

Cat, can you prove that the CC, as an institution, invented science? I don’t believe every branch of science has its roots firmly ensconced in the CC. I will admit that I do not know, with certainty, who invented science. Can we really even narrow it down to just one institution? I don’t think so.

Every branch of science is rooted in the scientific method devised by Fr. Roger Bacon while he was a Franciscan Friar sponsored by the Catholic Church.

 

[Cat_Herder]

Pope John Paul II saw the place for evolution within the belief that God created this world. If we knew how He did it, we would share in the spotlight. In regards to Charles Darwin, we forget about the Austrian monk Mengel and his own study of genetics.

Let it be known…you will never hear it in the secular news, but that Mexico – because of the Catholic Church and the push for education for women and girls as early in the 1500’s when America didn’t – was the center for education and learning in the New World. The educational system was destroyed by the Masonic Revolution. The Indian professors were present and active in that same period in developing their universities.

It was the Catholic Church that erected educational institutions as well as hospitals, hospice for the general populace, as well as cultivate the arts and musics.

And it is only the Catholic Church who has been unwavering in its defense that human life is sacred.

This is just the tip of the iceberg!

Everyone should watch this video, then spend a good fifteen minutes verifying the claims to resolve any doubts.

It would be an enlightening experience to say the least!

 

[joe370]

Hey cat…

Every branch of science is rooted in the scientific method devised by Fr. Roger Bacon while he was a Franciscan Friar sponsored by the Catholic Church.

Cat, do you think the landscape of science might look different if not for Roger? Could you provide some credible links. I would enjoy looking into the matter myself. Thanks…

 

[joe370]

Cat, I’ll check out that video that you sent to Kathleen.

 

[Cat_Herder]

Hey cat…

Cat, do you think the landscape of science might look different if not for Roger? Could you provide some credible links. I would enjoy looking into the matter myself. Thanks…

Here you go.

As you can see, the Islamic world–the Ottoman Empire–was the scientific superpower of the day. Bacon took from them, the Byzantines, and European works to revolutionize science.

Without his contributions it is likely that the Ottoman Empire would have become technologically superior and conquered the world.

Result: worldwide Sharia law. Atheists, are you listening?

 

[joe370]

Here you go.

As you can see, the Islamic world–the Ottoman Empire–was the scientific superpower of the day. Bacon took from them, the Byzantines, and European works to revolutionize science.

Without his contributions it is likely that the Ottoman Empire would have become technologically superior and conquered the world.

Result: worldwide Sharia law. Atheists, are you listening?

Thanks cat; I’m gonna check it out right now. I always enjoy learning new things.

 

[Nine_Two]

That’s quite a non sequitur. It’s quite established that Greek philosophy evolved out of Greek ethics which derived from the works of Homer, all of which were religious in nature.

Socrates and Plato were both quite harsh on Homer, Socrates didn’t base his teachings on much of anything, he questioned everything, annoyed everyone. Plato wanted Homer outlawed because he showed the gods as imperfect.

Both are rooted in Greek culture, but I don’t think anyone who has read both Homer and Plato would ever say one was based on the other.

 

[Nine_Two]

Nationalities are organizations, you know? And Fr. Bacon’s support came from the Church, not the government.

No they aren’t, governments are, but nationalities aren’t - no matter how artificial they may be, and requesting a report is not the same as supporting something.

 

[Cat_Herder]

No they aren’t, governments are, but nationalities aren’t - no matter how artificial they may be, and requesting a report is not the same as supporting something.

You do understand that Fr. Bacon was a mendicant Franciscan friar under vows of poverty, chastity and obedience, correct?

Who provided his means, his library, his laboratory, his research aides? THE CHURCH.

What happened when his superiors tried to suppress his works? He appealed to Rome. To what person in Rome? THE POPE, who then ordered the report and published the works.

Did the government of England do any of these things? No.

Was Fr. Bacon even considered to be a subject of the English crown? No. The King had no jurisdiction over the monasteries. (It took the Protestant Reformation to get the king that authority, which he then used to forcibly destroy and liquidate the monasteries to finance the military which the founding fathers of the United States of America would fight against).

 

[stormy99]

**Mendel was a monk…the Father of Genetics…remember from high school…and his pea plants and doing the square…

stormy.**

 

[Publisher]

Yup. There were many Byzantine and Ottoman contributors who came before Fr. Bacon and he used their work, but he was the first to put the scientific method together.

Not to mention all those pagan astronomers and physicians who learned to “observe” natural phenomena and charted the movements of the starts and planets…and those pagan “physicians” that learned from trial and error…“experiments” on what plants had the best medicinal properties.

Not to mention the role of those Muslims who excelled in science and mathematics when Christian Europe was concerned about what demons were causing what illness.

 

[Tuno]

Not to mention all those pagan astronomers and physicians who learned to “observe” natural phenomena and charted the movements of the starts and planets…and those pagan “physicians” that learned from trial and error…“experiments” on what plants had the best medicinal properties.

Not to mention the role of those Muslims who excelled in science and mathematics when Christian Europe was concerned about what demons were causing what illness.

I guess that Cat Herder intends us to understand that through all the history of Man all of the non-Europeans who lived on other continents were actually Catholic. Otherwise, how could the Chinese have contributed their immense store of knowledge, as well as other Asian cultures. And those Mayans, and other pre Christians: What do they think they were doing, usurping the Church’s prerogative to science? Lord, look at Alexandria! The utter presumption!!! God help all of them!