Split: Science was invented by the Church

[Cat_Herder]

A robot is not addressed as who, so yes.

 

[Todd520]

Demonstrate that any of those espousing Quinn’s views have papal approval.

Bacon did.

Let me give you a clearer example
The US Govt set a goal of landing men on the moon, and funded that effort over a number of years. The US Govt clearly gets credit for this feat, in addition to the men involved.

With Bacon, he pursued his interests and was not following explicit instructions
The Pope had not said “invent Scientific Method”
The Pope did not supply special funding to Bacon to create the "scientific method’
All the Pope get’s credit for is allowing Bacon to publish his work, post creation.
The Popes role was as a war time censor, who wisely chose to allow publication

 

[Cat_Herder]

Let me give you a clearer example
The US Govt set a goal of landing men on the moon, and funded that effort over a number of years. The US Govt clearly gets credit for this feat, in addition to the men involved.

With Bacon, he pursued his interests

Which were? What are the interests of a mendicant monk?..

and was not following explicit instructions - the Pope had not said “invent Scientific Method” All the Pope get’s credit for is allowing Bacon to publish his work post creation.

The Pope commissioned his Opus.

 

[Tuno]

Way to turn up the heat, CH; You’ve got us on the run!

 

[Cat_Herder]

Again: The scientific method, not science itself.

 

[Todd520]

Either the church gets credit or it doesn’t for the work of it’s individuals
Some activities, as with Quinn are against doctrine
Some activities, as with Bacon are independent of doctrine
Both of them were funded by the Church in their work

Or is it that whatever the pope blesses, becomes the ‘output of the church’ and what he doesn’t bless can be ignored?

 

[Cat_Herder]

Either the church gets credit or it doesn’t for the work of it’s individuals
Some activities, as with Quinn are against doctrine
Some activities, as with Bacon are independent of doctrine
Both of them were funded by the Church in their work

Or is it that whatever the pope blesses, becomes the ‘output of the church’ and what he doesn’t bless can be ignored?

In the mandate the Pope specifically requested an integration of Bacon’s new scientific method with theology.

Not exactly doctrine neutral.

 

[Todd520]

In the mandate the Pope specifically requested an integration of Bacon’s new scientific method with theology.

Not exactly doctrine neutral.

So the scientific method was already created and the Pope asked for ‘integration with Theology’
That’s a weak arugement to then give the Pope credit for Bacon’s work

 

[Cat_Herder]

So the scientific method was already created and the Pope asked for ‘integration with Theology’
That’s a weak arugement to then give the Pope credit for Bacon’s work

The scientific method as described in the Opus was the result of the work commissioned by the Pope.

Bacon had only an idea prior to that point. He never wrote a dissertation at Oxford prior to joining the Franciscans; he didn’t even have a doctorate. It was the Pope who asked him to put his lectures to writing. This is no different than NASA astronauts going to Congress for a blank check.

 

[Tuno]

I think that CH’s argument ins very strong, Todd. I compare it to my Grandmother’s claim that Hungarians invented everything from fire to the wheel, agriculture, poetry, and a whole lot more as far as she knew. And she was right; completely right; after all, she was Hungarian and would know.

 

[Todd520]

So he was already giving lectures, ergo his thoughts were already developed and debated.

The scientific method as described in the Opus was the result of the work commissioned by the Pope.

Bacon had only an idea prior to that point. He never wrote a dissertation at Oxford prior to joining the Franciscans; he didn’t even have a doctorate. It was the Pope who asked him to put his lectures to writing. This is no different than NASA astronauts going to Congress for a blank check.

 

[Sufjon]

The Bible does not support that view of the church. There is supposed to be agreement about doctrine.

[BIBLEDRB]Rom 16:17[/BIBLEDRB]
[BIBLEDRB]1 Cor 1:10[/BIBLEDRB]
[BIBLEDRB]Phil 2:2[/BIBLEDRB]
[BIBLEDRB]Rom 15:5[/BIBLEDRB]

Under your thin veil of non-dogmatism is the old English stereotype of the Catholic Church as a bunch of backwards medieval monks. It is also the alleged subtext of Osteen’s joke.

These days there is Google and Wikipedia, so there really is no excuse for anyone to hold this bias anymore. Anyone with five minutes and a computer can figure out that science was invented by the Church. Ditto for the university, the hospital, etc. Catholics are behind the Big Bang theory, germ theory, even heliocentrism-- Copernicus and of course Galileo were Catholics, the latter despite the black legend that surrounds him.

How you, and Osteen, could hold this bias is amazing.

Nonsense. Leonardo Da Vinci was the first true scientist.

He was Indian.

youtube.com/watch?v=hjWd9a8Ck8U&p=393AFC02A42AEBF3&playnext=1&index=21

 

[Cat_Herder]

So he was already giving lectures, ergo his thoughts were already developed and debated.

Not really. Bacon could not afford to develop his thoughts because he was poor and oppressed by certain of his Franciscan colleagues. only because the Pope granted it.Opus majus