SPLIT: The Eucharist in Scripture and Catholic teaching.

[Cal_Fullerton]

There is no Catholic teaching about what we are to think about when we receive Communion.

Different priests can suggest different things–meditating on his great love, contemplating the 5 wounds of Jesus, thinking about the face of Christ, focusing on the passion, death and resurrection of Jesus, imagining one can apprehend the Trinity, the mystery of the union of the creature with the Creator.

As Pope JPII says, regarding the Eucharist:

This varied scenario of celebrations of the Eucharist has given me a powerful experience of its universal and, so to speak, cosmic character. Yes, cosmic! Because even when it is celebrated on the humble altar of a country church, the Eucharist is always in some way celebrated on the altar of the world. It unites heaven and earth**. It embraces and permeates all creation**. The Son of God became man in order to restore all creation, in one supreme act of praise, to the One who made it from nothing. He, the Eternal High Priest who by the blood of his Cross entered the eternal sanctuary, thus gives back to the Creator and Father all creation redeemed. He does so through the priestly ministry of the Church, to the glory of the Most Holy Trinity. Truly this is the mysterium fidei which is accomplished in the Eucharist: the world which came forth from the hands of God the Creator now returns to him redeemed by Christ.

I love the quote of Pope John Paul. He sounds very much like a Protestant!
It also sounds like he had a mature understanding of the gospel.

What are the 5 wounds of Jesus? I think someone said he shed blood at 7 different points—or maybe it was 5. We think of 5 as the number for grace, 7 as divine perfection.

Did you watch Mel Gibson’s The Passion of the Christ? I thought it was brilliant . . . and moving. What right do we have to give up any less to him than he gave for us?

 

[Cal_Fullerton]

It is more than just remembering, though - the word used in the Scriptures is “anemnesis” which signifies re-entering into the experience by means of ritual - just as the Jews re-enter into the experience of the original Passover every time they celebrate a Passover meal. They are actually tasting what the original Israelites tasted, and hearing what they heard, and in the same way, we enter in a non-bloody way into Christ’s crucifixion and resurrection every time we celebrate Mass.

Very good.

 

[wisdomseeker]

I love the quote of Pope John Paul. He sounds very much like a Protestant!
It also sounds like he had a mature understanding of the gospel.

What are the 5 wounds of Jesus? I think someone said he shed blood at 7 different points—or maybe it was 5. We think of 5 as the number for grace, 7 as divine perfection.

Did you watch Mel Gibson’s The Passion of the Christ? I thought it was brilliant . . . and moving. What right do we have to give up any less to him than he gave for us?

No right at all. that is why Catholics preserve and love Jesus teachings in opposite to those who left the Church to believe things that are alien to God.

that is why the CC is beautiful. people take pride in building what is beautiful to God.
that is why we believe, love appreciate the One Church Jesus built.
that is why we claim and proclaim the Truth of Jesus to whole world.

that we do as He said: if you dont eat the flesh of the Son of man, you have no life in you. we want to live

that is why is so important that we remain faithful and love His Church until He comes again according to His promise.

that is why we love and preserve the memories of the family of God from beginning to end. the Saints. that is why we love and obey holy Mother Mary Mother of God. loving His mother we are loving Jesus.

 

[PRmerger]

What are the 5 wounds of Jesus? I think someone said he shed blood at 7 different points—or maybe it was 5. We think of 5 as the number for grace, 7 as divine perfection.

They are traditionally known as: His 2 wounds to the hands, 2 wounds to the feet, wound to the side of Christ.

Did you watch Mel Gibson’s The Passion of the Christ? I thought it was brilliant . . . and moving. What right do we have to give up any less to him than he gave for us?

Indeed, I have seen the movie. Quite moving. It was a cinematic portrayal of a Catholic devotion called The Stations of the Cross.

 

[Cal_Fullerton]

. . . . Catholics preserve and love Jesus teachings in opposite to those who left the Church to believe things that are alien to God.

that is why the CC is beautiful. people take pride in building what is beautiful to God.
that is why we believe, love appreciate the One Church Jesus built.
that is why we claim and proclaim the Truth of Jesus to whole world.

that we do as He said: if you dont eat the flesh of the Son of man, you have no life in you. we want to live

that is why is so important that we remain faithful and love His Church until He comes again according to His promise.

that is why we love and preserve the memories of the family of God from beginning to end. the Saints. that is why we love and obey holy Mother Mary Mother of God. loving His mother we are loving Jesus.

I ran across this funny excuse from someone who had broken the speed limit. Trooper Roger Betsill, Jr., actually heard, “I was traveling with the flow of traffic.”

On Judgment Day, the Catholic Church isn’t going to be by your side to defend you if you have taught some falsehoods. We better study the Bible for ourselves or we’ll lose some of the rewards God has in store for us!

I have realized since getting on this forum that the CC is more judgmental and sectarian than I thought they were.
If communion helps you fall in love with Jesus, I’m all for it; but if you present it as an essential for salvation, you shut lots of genuine believers out of the kingdom, and bring a curse of some sort onto yourself (Matt. 7:1-2).

I’ll telling you this for your best interest, not to lash back at you. I hope it comes across that way.

I’m glad you love the Church.

if you dont eat the flesh of the Son of man, you have no life in you.

I believe that in John 6, flesh means Jesus’ Divine Life, his substance, as I think Linda Marie indicated—what he really is. I believe we have to have this flesh (Divine Life) in us on a permanent basis to pass the test of 2 Cor. 13:5. Do you agree with that?’’

Have a good evening.

 

[Cal_Fullerton]

They are traditionally known as: His 2 wounds to the hands, 2 wounds to the feet, wound to the side of Christ.

Indeed, I have seen the movie. Quite moving. It was a cinematic portrayal of a Catholic devotion called The Stations of the Cross.

That’s interesting. I didn’t know that.

 

[wisdomseeker]

I ran across this funny excuse from someone who had broken the speed limit. Trooper Roger Betsill, Jr., actually heard, “I was traveling with the flow of traffic.”

On Judgment Day, the Catholic Church isn’t going to be by your side to defend you if you have taught some falsehoods. We better study the Bible for ourselves or we’ll lose some of the rewards God has in store for us!

I have realized since getting on this forum that the CC is more judgmental and sectarian than I thought they were.
If communion helps you fall in love with Jesus, I’m all for it; but if you present it as an essential for salvation, you shut lots of genuine believers out of the kingdom, and bring a curse of some sort onto yourself (Matt. 7:1-2).

I’ll telling you this for your best interest, not to lash back at you. I hope it comes across that way.

I’m glad you love the Church.

I believe that in John 6, flesh means Jesus’ Divine Life, his substance, as I think Linda Marie indicated—what he really is. I believe we have to have this flesh (Divine Life) in us on a permanent basis to pass the test of 2 Cor. 13:5. Do you agree with that?’’

Have a good evening.

I thank God for letting me into His Kingdom the One Holy Catholic Church.

It is not what I want to believe but what is tought by Jesus through His Church that I must comply and obey and have an obligation to believe what the Church teaches because it is the teachings of God. He put in place men in authority to sheppard His flock. Outside His Kingdom the Church, no one is allowed to teach. no one can put themselves in authority on their own. if you want to follow those who are not called to teach, it is your choice. be aware though, that you or your pastor have no authority to teach about God. the Bible does not given any man the right to teach the Word of God. Only God can call man to be in charge of teachings what He commands. And He did through Jesus and His Apostles and today the Bishops of the CC. only they are called to preserve and pass on the Truth. Like St Paul says, obey the Sheppards of the Church they will give account of our souls. but you cannot do that because you dont know the Truth, therefore you cannot obey.

 

[jmcrae]

I ran across this funny excuse from someone who had broken the speed limit. Trooper Roger Betsill, Jr., actually heard, “I was traveling with the flow of traffic.”

On Judgment Day, the Catholic Church isn’t going to be by your side to defend you if you have taught some falsehoods. We better study the Bible for ourselves or we’ll lose some of the rewards God has in store for us!

The Church has the lifeblood of Christ flowing through it (not to mention His promise to defend Her against the gates of Hell) - since He cannot teach any falsehood, neither can She.

If communion helps you fall in love with Jesus, I’m all for it; but if you present it as an essential for salvation, you shut lots of genuine believers out of the kingdom, and bring a curse of some sort onto yourself (Matt. 7:1-2).

Is loving Jesus not essential for salvation? Being physically united with Him in His flesh is the closest we will ever get to Him in this life - why not share that good news with people, that they can (and should) do this, if they join the Church?

I believe that in John 6, flesh means Jesus’ Divine Life, his substance, as I think Linda Marie indicated—what he really is.

Yes indeed. Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity.

Don’t overspiritualize it. Don’t rob words of their meaning. “Flesh” means actual meat, attached to bone, covered in skin.

I believe we have to have this flesh (Divine Life) in us on a permanent basis to pass the test of 2 Cor. 13:5. Do you agree with that?’’

Which is why it is highly recommended (though not required) that people receive Holy Communion on a daily basis.

 

[wisdomseeker]

I ran across this funny excuse from someone who had broken the speed limit. Trooper Roger Betsill, Jr., actually heard, “I was traveling with the flow of traffic.”

On Judgment Day, the Catholic Church isn’t going to be by your side to defend you if you have taught some falsehoods. We better study the Bible for ourselves or we’ll lose some of the rewards God has in store for us!

I have realized since getting on this forum that the CC is more judgmental and sectarian than I thought they were.
If communion helps you fall in love with Jesus, I’m all for it; but if you present it as an essential for salvation, you shut lots of genuine believers out of the kingdom, and bring a curse of some sort onto yourself (Matt. 7:1-2).

I’ll telling you this for your best interest, not to lash back at you. I hope it comes across that way.

I’m glad you love the Church.

I believe that in John 6, flesh means Jesus’ Divine Life, his substance, as I think Linda Marie indicated—what he really is. I believe we have to have this flesh (Divine Life) in us on a permanent basis to pass the test of 2 Cor. 13:5. Do you agree with that?’’

Have a good evening.

Romans 10:14 “But how are men to call upon him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without a preacher?”

Romans 10:15, And how can men preach unless they are sent?

“Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.””

There, i have read the Bible and found this. Protestants pick Verses of the Bible with no regards for others. I am sure they avoid them because it cannot apply to them.

Luke 10:16, Jesus said, “He who hears you hears me, and he who rejects you rejects me, and he who rejects me rejects him who sent me.”

Now do you think that Jesus is saying this to you or to His Church? which one do you think we should listen? Not the Bible, He is not telling us to read the Bible but to hear from.

So, answer me who sent you to teach or preach to any one? the Bible does not send anyone.

"Let us note that the very tradition, teaching, and faith of the
Catholic Church from the beginning, which the Lord gave, was preached
by the Apostles, and was preserved by the Fathers. On this was the Church founded;
and if anyone departs from this, he neither is nor any longer ought to be called a Christian."
St. Athanasius, Letter to Serapion of Thmuis, 359 A.D…

 

[wisdomseeker]

I ran across this funny excuse from someone who had broken the speed limit. Trooper Roger Betsill, Jr., actually heard, “I was traveling with the flow of traffic.”

On Judgment Day, the Catholic Church isn’t going to be by your side to defend you if you have taught some falsehoods. We better study the Bible for ourselves or we’ll lose some of the rewards God has in store for us!

I have realized since getting on this forum that the CC is more judgmental and sectarian than I thought they were.
If communion helps you fall in love with Jesus, I’m all for it; but if you present it as an essential for salvation, you shut lots of genuine believers out of the kingdom, and bring a curse of some sort onto yourself (Matt. 7:1-2).

I’ll telling you this for your best interest, not to lash back at you. I hope it comes across that way.

I’m glad you love the Church.
I believe that in John 6, flesh means Jesus’ Divine Life, his substance, as I think Linda Marie indicated—what he really is. I believe we have to have this flesh (Divine Life) in us on a permanent basis to pass the test of 2 Cor. 13:5. Do you agree with that?’’

Have a good evening.

How do you explain this?

“Neither does any man take the honour to himself, but he that is called by God, as Aaron was.”
Hebrews 5:4

and this.
“He who speaks on his own authority seeks his own glory;
but he who seeks the glory of him who sent him is true,
and in him there is no falsehood.”
John 7:18

and this,

“Only let your lives be worthy of the Gospel of Christ; so that whether I come and see you, or remain absent, I may hear about you, that you are steadfast in One Spirit, with One mind striving together for the faith of the Gospel.” Phil 1:27

and this,
“Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of Our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all may say the same thing; and that there be no dissensions among you, but that you be perfectly united in One mind and in One judgment.” 1Cor 1:10

Do you think this is describing protestantism?

 

[wisdomseeker]

I ran across this funny excuse from someone who had broken the speed limit. Trooper Roger Betsill, Jr., actually heard, “I was traveling with the flow of traffic.”

On Judgment Day, the Catholic Church isn’t going to be by your side to defend you if you have taught some falsehoods. We better study the Bible for ourselves or we’ll lose some of the rewards God has in store for us!

I have realized since getting on this forum that the CC is more judgmental and sectarian than I thought they were.
If communion helps you fall in love with Jesus, I’m all for it; but if you present it as an essential for salvation, you shut lots of genuine believers out of the kingdom, and bring a curse of some sort onto yourself (Matt. 7:1-2).

I’ll telling you this for your best interest, not to lash back at you. I hope it comes across that way.

I’m glad you love the Church.

I believe that in John 6, flesh means Jesus’ Divine Life, his substance, as I think Linda Marie indicated—what he really is. I believe we have to have this flesh (Divine Life) in us on a permanent basis to pass the test of 2 Cor. 13:5. Do you agree with that?’’

Have a good evening.

How about this one,

2Pet 3:16-17, St. Peter said, “…In these Epistles there are certain things difficult to understand, WHICH THE UNLEARNED AND UNSTABLE DISTORT, JUST AS THEY DO THE REST OF THE SCRIPTURES ALSO, TO THEIR OWN DESTRUCTION. YOU THEREFORE, BRETHREN, SINCE YOU KNOW THIS BEFOREHAND, BE ON YOUR GUARD LEST, CARRIED AWAY BY THE ERROR OF THE FOOLISH, YOU FALL AWAY FROM YOUR STEADFASTNESS.”

Who do you define is the unlearned and unstable? and how do you get your authority to define who they are?

 

[PRmerger]

IIf communion helps you fall in love with Jesus, I’m all for it; but if you present it as an essential for salvation, you shut lots of genuine believers out of the kingdom, and bring a curse of some sort onto yourself (Matt. 7:1-2).

But Cal? What are these “essentials”?

The Bible does not tell us what’s an essential belief/practice and what’s not, eh?

And since it does not, what you many consider to be an essential, another Christian may not.

Thus, there can be no consensus for Bible-only Christians as to what is an essential for salvation and what is not.

 

[PRmerger]

That’s interesting. I didn’t know that.

Just so we’re clear–that is my interpretation of Mel Gibson’s movie. I don’t know that he intentionally thought, “Oh, I’m going to put on the cinema the Stations of the Cross that Catholics have practiced for years.”

(Note: Mel Gibson is NOT a Catholic, but a schismatic.)

 

[labarrios]

I’ve been following this thread all day. I never post, just read…However I feel compelled to share.There is a first time for everything

These words are taken from the Ignatius Catholic Study Bible, in explanation of The Bread of Life discourse. John 35-59. Interpretations of this sermon often take one of two positions. Some think of the discourse as an extensive invitation to faith, so that eating the bread of life is seen as a metaphor for believing in Jesus. Others interpret the the discourse along sacramental lines, so that eating the bread of life means partaking of the Eucharist. Both of these views are true and can be correlated with a natural and symmetrical division of the sermon in two parts. (1)invitation to faith (6:35-47). The first half of the discourse opens with the statement “I am the bread of life”.(6-35). This is followed by a string of invitations to come to Jesus and believe in him for salvation. The metaphorical import of Jesus’ teachings is so obvious that is stands out in the response of the Jews,who ask him, not why he call himself bread, but how he can claim to have descended from heaven(6:42). (2) Invitation to the Eucharist (6:48-58). The second half of the discourse likewise opens with the statement “I am the bread of life”(6:48). This is followed by a string of invitations to eat the flesh of Jesus and drink his blood. Here the literal import of Jesus’ teaching is so obvious that it, too, stands out in the response of the Jews, who ask how it is possible to consume his flesh(6:52). In the end, these two halves of the sermon work in tandem, since without faith we can neither be united with Christ nor recognize his presence in the Eucharist. If eating is believing in 6:35-47, then believing leads to eating in 6:48-58 (CCC 161, 1381)

Dios los Bendiga

 

[Cal_Fullerton]

. . . . the Bible does not given any man the right to teach the Word of God. Only God can call man to be in charge of teachings what He commands. . . .

I agree with that.

The Mormon Church and the Watchtower Society also claim to be the sum of God’s church on earth today. What could you show me to demonstrate that you are the sum of God’s true church instead of some other group?

First John 3:10 (NIV) says, “This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God; nor is anyone who does not love his brother.”

I’ve had contact with Christians or pseudo-Christians in many different arenas. The longer I live the more I believe that the right theology produces the right behavior, and wrong theology produces wrong behavior. Has it been your observance that Catholics are the only ones who have the fruit of the Spirit in their lives?

Have a nice day, wisdomseeker. God is pleased with your faith.

 

[Cal_Fullerton]

I’ve been following this thread all day. I never post, just read…However I feel compelled to share.There is a first time for everything

These words are taken from the Ignatius Catholic Study Bible, in explanation of The Bread of Life discourse. John 35-59. Interpretations of this sermon often take one of two positions. Some think of the discourse as an extensive invitation to faith, so that eating the bread of life is seen as a metaphor for believing in Jesus. Others interpret the the discourse along sacramental lines, so that eating the bread of life means partaking of the Eucharist. Both of these views are true and can be correlated with a natural and symmetrical division of the sermon in two parts. (1)invitation to faith (6:35-47). The first half of the discourse opens with the statement “I am the bread of life”.(6-35). This is followed by a string of invitations to come to Jesus and believe in him for salvation. The metaphorical import of Jesus’ teachings is so obvious that is stands out in the response of the Jews,who ask him, not why he call himself bread, but how he can claim to have descended from heaven(6:42). (2) Invitation to the Eucharist (6:48-58). The second half of the discourse likewise opens with the statement “I am the bread of life”(6:48). This is followed by a string of invitations to eat the flesh of Jesus and drink his blood. Here the literal import of Jesus’ teaching is so obvious that it, too, stands out in the response of the Jews, who ask how it is possible to consume his flesh(6:52). In the end, these two halves of the sermon work in tandem, since without faith we can neither be united with Christ nor recognize his presence in the Eucharist. If eating is believing in 6:35-47, then believing leads to eating in 6:48-58 (CCC 161, 1381)

Dios los Bendiga

I’m glad you made your presence known, labarrios, because you’ve made a very good contribution. As I see it, your Catholic Study Bible reveals that Protestants and Catholics agree on John 6:35-47—that it is an invitation to faith.
I am going to restudy the next part of John and reconsider the Catholic view with an open mind.

---

PR, I’ll have to get to you later, my friend.

Happy days!

 

[wisdomseeker]

I agree with that.

The Mormon Church and the Watchtower Society also claim to be the sum of God’s church on earth today. What could you show me to demonstrate that you are the sum of God’s true church instead of some other group?

First John 3:10 (NIV) says, “This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God; nor is anyone who does not love his brother.”

I’ve had contact with Christians or pseudo-Christians in many different arenas. The longer I live the more I believe that the right theology produces the right behavior, and wrong theology produces wrong behavior. Has it been your observance that Catholics are the only ones who have the fruit of the Spirit in their lives?

Have a nice day, wisdomseeker. God is pleased with your faith.

If you look at Catholics behavior to know the True Church, why not look at the lives of the Saints in the Church for 2000 yrs?

you could read St Catherine of Siena. a true Miracle of God to His Church. a
Why not look at the Apparition at Fatima to three little children?

why not look at so many Martyrs of the Faith during the 2000 yrs of the Church.

You cannot see how much the Church is suffering trying to show you all the Truth, but you continue to reject it.

The mormons and others just like protestants claim many things, but do they have the witnesses of the Saints throughout the history of Church? all they have is the witness of the Saints agaisnt them. that is why they are afraid to look at the Saints of the Church.

Like I said, the Bible does not sent no one to preach. they took upon themselves to do so. Working against God’s Church, it is not such a good idea.

 

[Cal_Fullerton]

Don’t overspiritualize it. Don’t rob words of their meaning. “Flesh” means actual meat, attached to bone, covered in skin.
Which is why it is highly recommended (though not required) that people receive Holy Communion on a daily basis.

jmcrae, I reexamined John 6:53 (“unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you”) and its context. I had said before reexamining it, that I thought flesh & blood here stand for Jesus’ divine life—everything that he is spiritually.
While I still think that interpretation is possible, I’m moving away from it to a neutral position. (One can interpret it either way and get a great blessing out of it either way.) As it turns out, an evangelical commentary I have, as well as the NIV Study Bible, agree with the Catholic Study Bible that lagarrios quoted in saying Jesus is referring to his physical flesh & blood.

However, the evangelical commentaries believe John 6:53 looks forward to Jesus’ death on Calvary for our sins. In this case, Jesus was saying, “Unless you take in the benefits (consisting in the Holy Spirit) of Jesus’ sacrifice by making him your Lord, you have no life in you.”

As I understand you guys, while the Catholic Church would agree that one must walk by faith in Jesus in order to have eternal life, they see Jesus referring to the rite of Holy Communion in John 6:53.

I’m going to be busier during the next 5-6 days, so I’ll take a break from blogging until next week.

Thanks.

 

[Cal_Fullerton]

If you look at Catholics behavior to know the True Church, why not look at the lives of the Saints in the Church for 2000 yrs?

you could read St Catherine of Siena. a true Miracle of God to His Church. a
Why not look at the Apparition at Fatima to three little children?

why not look at so many Martyrs of the Faith during the 2000 yrs of the Church.

You cannot see how much the Church is suffering trying to show you all the Truth, but you continue to reject it.

The mormons and others just like protestants claim many things, but do they have the witnesses of the Saints throughout the history of Church? all they have is the witness of the Saints agaisnt them. that is why they are afraid to look at the Saints of the Church.

Like I said, the Bible does not sent no one to preach. they took upon themselves to do so. Working against God’s Church, it is not such a good idea.

I have looked at the Saints of the Church and I appreciate their service and am inspired by them.

 

[Cal_Fullerton]

But Cal? What are these “essentials”?

The Bible does not tell us what’s an essential belief/practice and what’s not, eh?

And since it does not, what you many consider to be an essential, another Christian may not.

Thus, there can be no consensus for Bible-only Christians as to what is an essential for salvation and what is not.

PR, I quoted a series of Bible verses about a couple weeks ago that show what God says the essentials are. I’m shocked eek that you would say, “The Bible does not tell us what’s an essential belief/practice and what’s not, eh?” Do you ever read your Bible?