SPLIT: Those Who Leave the Catholic Faith

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Atemi said:
So you believe that all Catholics who now go to non-Catholic churches are Hellbound?

It is really good to clarify these issues for the lurkers.
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Since the Catholic Church teaches all truths which the Apostles received from Jesus and pass it down to their successors and reject let’s say Real Presence they would be rejecting Jesus Christ himself.

I cannot judge who goes to hell that is left to God himself. Let me just say that I hope the former Catholic will return to the Church before he dies, for he will be judged by Jesus Christ as to why he left His Bride, the Church. The Catholic Church. The Lord will surely ask why did he leave His One Church. He will be held accountible for his actions.

This does not apply to former Ex-Catholics but Catholics who disagree with Church teachings. Everything concerning, especially if it concerns, faith and moral issues that is taught in the Church cannot be rejected. For these teachings come from Jesus Christ himself.

Obedience to Church prescribe practices such as observing the fasting on Friday is also bound by the Church. “Whatever you held bound on earth will be bound in heaven, whatever you loose on earth shall be loose in heaven.”

This passage means three things:

The Church has to power by given to God himself to.
  1. Teach all things concerning Moral and Faith issues.
  2. Administer certain devotions or disciplines like fasting,
  3. Create Canon Law.
((Correct me if I’m wrong)). Lay Catholics have a duty to adhere to these for they come from Jesus Christ himself.
 
kaycee said:
Hmmmm, so when God placed His spirit in me after I cried out to Him for salvation through His Son and His perfect sacrafice and left the RCC, I was rejecting Jesus?

Yes you did. I think you left because you did not understand.

I do you think in my opinion you ought to return because of the Real Presence of Jesus Christ in the Eucharist. Most Protestant churches don’t have that. They only have the spiritual presence of Jesus.

Only two Churches have real presence Catholic and Orthodox. Most Protestant Churches have no valid priesthood so their Last Supper is just purely symbolic. A doctrine not heard of even to First Century Christians.
Strange, after infant baptism, confession, communion, confirmation and near perfect mass attendance and 12 years of Catholic school with nuns, I had no more than a passing interest in spiritual things like 99% of my school mates.
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After God saved me, I had an amazing thirst to read His Word, I could not get enough of it. I also wanted to Tell Everyone about the Jesus who saves sinners, but i guess I was really rejecting Jesus?
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You are better off not to leave the Catholic Church, in my opinion. As a Catholic for 31 years, I have read the Bible and learn God from His Church. I find it difficult why Ex-Catholic did not seek Scripture in the Church but find it by joining a Protestant Church.

My love for the Bible stem from my love of the Church since it was the Church who canonized it which we already discussed and you have part take in that discussion. I must say you mostly discuss opinions of some Catholics who did not agree deutrocanonical books as uninspired, but you never came up with an official decreee by the Church as a whole that they weren’t inspired. We can discuss that in that thread not here.
The Bible became REAL to me and the story of JESUS IS TRUE I want to shout it from the roof tops, but apparently its all for not as you tell me I have rejected my Savior? God had given me the peace that surpasses all understanding, but i guess i was just fooled.
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Joh 6:37 "All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out.

The Bible to me is real to me in the Catholic Church. I just don’t believe in Bible Alone doctrine. Since from it I we see **33,000 Protestant denominations **which some even practice infant baptism. There is no unified doctrine in Protestantism therefore it doctrine is not from God. It is **man-made **founded in the 1500s.

In my studies only Catholic Church is the True Church of Jesus Christ.
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Mannyfit75 said:
Since the Catholic Church teaches all truths which the Apostles received from Jesus and pass it down to their successors and reject let’s say Real Presence they would be rejecting Jesus Christ himself.

I cannot judge who goes to hell that is left to God himself.
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You just did in your post:

“a Catholic to reject the Church is rejecting Jesus Christ”

Now Scripture is abundantly clear about what happens to those who reject Jesus Christ, and I assumed you were aware of this as well.
Let me just say that I hope the former Catholic will return to the Church before he dies, for he will be judged by Jesus Christ as to why he left His Bride, the Church. The Catholic Church. The Lord will surely ask why did he leave His One Church. He will be held accountible for his actions.
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So again you claim that all those that have left Catholicism are damned.

For how else can one be saved if they are not in the Body of Christ? Christ’s Body is the Ark.

Is this your own opinion, or are you repeating the traditional and historical RC doctrine that has changed somewhat since Vat II?
This does not apply to former Ex-Catholics but Catholics who disagree with Church teachings.
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That means the majority of Catholics are damned too.
Everything concerning, especially if it concerns, faith and moral issues that is taught in the Church cannot be rejected. For these teachings come from Jesus Christ himself.
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I would hesitate to equate the RC Magisterium with God Himself, but I know that is the RC mindset.
 
I am with you kaycee.

They must, of necessity, tell us that we were ignorant of Catholicsim. Why else would we leave?

I find this response to be loaded with many false assumptions and errors. It is unfortunate because the RCC is a sieve right now and claiming that those who leave it are just ignorant is only self deception, IMO.

I believe this must be done to actually convince the Catholic that he/she is correct. Their neighbor must be torn down to support the Catholic’s presuppositions.

That’s just my take so far. I see it over and over again.
 
Atemi said:
I would hesitate to equate the RC Magisterium with God Himself, but I know that is the RC mindset.
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Don’t make horrendous assumptions, Atemi. The ordinary Magisterium has the teaching authority of Christ because the Holy Spirit inspires them to not do so in ecumenical councils or in papal ex cathedra statements. The Magisterium is not nor ever should be equated with God.
 
TheApologist said:
Don’t make horrendous assumptions, Atemi. The ordinary Magisterium has the teaching authority of Christ because the Holy Spirit inspires them to not do so in ecumenical councils or in papal ex cathedra statements. The Magisterium is not nor ever should be equated with God.
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Saying the words of the RC Magisterium are GOD’s words is a veeeeeery bold and dangerous claim, IMO.

It is not me who makes this equation.
 
Atemi said:
I am with you kaycee.

They must, of necessity, tell us that we were ignorant of Catholicsim. Why else would we leave?
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I find this response to be loaded with many false assumptions and errors.So then personal experiences that you and other opponents of the Catholic faith are valid evidence (Provided they are factual.) and those of Myself and my fellow Catholics are not?

The fact is that I make these statements because I found them true in my own experience and in virtually every encounter with a fallen away Catholic who now opposes the faith. The only error I see there is that you assert that it is error, when Catholics have again and again shown you Biblically, historically, and Traditionally, that statements that you have made are inaccurate representations of Catholic belief and teachings.
It is unfortunate because the RCC is a sieve right now and claiming that those who leave it are just ignorant is only self deception, IMO.
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Opinion? So?
I believe this must be done to actually convince the Catholic that he/she is correct. Their neighbor must be torn down to support the Catholic’s presuppositions.
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If I believed “presuppositions” this might be a valid statement, but having done all my Biblical homework as well as other sources to get the facts, so this is bunk.

The Catholic Church a sieve? In your dreams. There has never been a time in her history when the faith has not had opponents and conflicts and not been under assault from the devil, but your wishful thinking in the face of the revival that this and other good Catholic sites represent as well as the packed out churches of people coming into our parishes doesn’t make it so.
That’s just my take so far. I see it over and over again.
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And we see similar rhetoric from n-Cs/a-Cs all the time as well.

The truth is that in discussions with “ex-Catholics” opposing our most holy faith we have proved again and again that they do not and did not know their the faith before they left and IMO have been deceived by people with Bibles, just as I was.
Atemi said:
Sorry Militant. I wasn’t responding to you.
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But I was responding to you.
 
Atemi said:
Saying the words of the RC Magisterium are GOD’s words is a veeeeeery bold and dangerous claim, IMO.

It is not me who makes this equation.
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You’re right, it is not you who makes this equation…It is Christ. He’s the one who gave the authority to the Church…but, of course, you probably have a weak comeback to this as well.

Anyway…what in the world does IMO mean?
 
Atemi said:
So again you claim that all those that have left Catholicism are damned.
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None of the Catholics I’ve seen here have said that. You’re coming to that conclusion but none of us proclaimed damnation on anyone. We said that you’d have to answer, as we all will, for your sins. And if you were a confirmed Catholic and left the Church you will have to answer for that too. No Christian should ever make a judgment as to who is damned…that is for God alone and to do such underestimates the mercy of God.
 
TheApologist said:
Don’t make horrendous assumptions, Atemi. The ordinary Magisterium has the teaching authority of Christ because the Holy Spirit inspires them to not spreak error in ecumenical councils and in papal ex cathedra statements. The Magisterium is not nor ever should be equated with God.
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TheApologist said:
You’re right, it is not you who makes this equation…It is Christ. He’s the one who gave the authority to the Church…
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Since when is “the Church” the RC Magisterium??

Please get a NT and Greek dictionary.

Please.
 
mlldrl said:
None of the Catholics I’ve seen here have said that.
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Maybe you missed it. It is as clear as day:

“Let me just say that I hope the former Catholic will return to the Church before he dies, for he will be judged by Jesus Christ as to why he left His Bride, the Church.”

Who outside of the Body of Christ, the Ark, can be saved?

Are you saying that the RCC teaches that there are those outside of the Body of Christ that will be saved?
 
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