SPLIT: Those Who Leave the Catholic Faith

  • Thread starter Thread starter Socrates4Jesus
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
I for one don’t think its appropriate to make comments / presupositins on anyones eternal fate.

In fact I think, it may even be against the forum rules.

Chuck
What do you say for me?

I have been justified by faith after being foreknown, predestined, and then called…I will one day, as scripture promises, be glorified…

Romans 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

What about one like me who was written in the Lamb’s book of Life and have been given promises like…

John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

And assurances like…

Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Romans 8:33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God’s elect? It is God that justifieth.

One who has been washed…

1Corinthians 6:11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

and am clean every whit…

John 13:8 Peter saith unto him, Thou shalt never wash my feet. Jesus answered him, If I wash thee not, thou hast no part with me.
9 Simon Peter saith unto him, Lord, not my feet only, but also my hands and my head.
10 Jesus saith to him, He that is washed needeth not save to wash his feet, but is clean every whit: and ye are clean, but not all.

One of the elect…

1Peter 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

Mt 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

One of those who have been perfected, forever…

Heb 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

One who is dead to the law…bondage to it and its penalty…

Ro 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

One who has been sealed with the Holy Spirit at the hearing of faith…

Ac 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

Galatians 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

One who has been changed…

2Co 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

One who believes…

1Jo 5:13 **These things **have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

And manifests in my life - “these things” from the scripture reference above…

Love, practicing of righteousness, hating of sin, observing of commandments, loving of the brethren, witness of the Holy Spirit - all showing that I have been born of God - and am one of the elect.

All by the grace of God…

For one written in the Lamb’s Book of Life…what to you say for me.

I am particularly curious about the phrase about what we are “aiming for” in the quoted response. I aimed for the cross of Christ…and this was the sacrifice that has perfected me and taken away my penalty of death…

Col 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

CL
 
Thank you. That is helpful. Excuse my ignorance, but is this Catechism what might be called the final court of arbitration between Catholics who have a disagreement on what the Bible says about one point or another?
In the introduction to the Catechism, the late Pope John Paul II refers to this document as a “sure norm”. You will find it heavily footnoted to both Sacred Scripture, and the writings of Church Fathers and saints. If you want to know what the Catholic Church teaches, the Catechism is a great place to start, and will lead you to many other related supporting documents.
 
I for one don’t think its appropriate to make comments / presupositins on anyones eternal fate.

In fact I think, it may even be against the forum rules.

Chuck
Where did you see that I made mention of anyone else’s fate other than my own? Maybe you misunderstood something that I had written.:o
 
What do you say for me?

I have been justified by faith after being foreknown, predestined, and then called…I will one day, as scripture promises, be glorified…

…

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

Galatians 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

One who has been changed…

2Co 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

One who believes…

1Jo 5:13 **These things **have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

And manifests in my life - “these things” from the scripture reference above…

Love, practicing of righteousness, hating of sin, observing of commandments, loving of the brethren, witness of the Holy Spirit - all showing that I have been born of God - and am one of the elect.

All by the grace of God…

For one written in the Lamb’s Book of Life…what to you say for me.

I am particularly curious about the phrase about what we are “aiming for” in the quoted response. I aimed for the cross of Christ…and this was the sacrifice that has perfected me and taken away my penalty of death…

Col 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

CL
Hmmm, Linkowski, perhaps you omitted this:

James 2:15-17
Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. If one of you says to him, “Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it? In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.

James 2:20
…do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless?

James 2:24
You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone.

Phil 2:12-13
Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed—not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence—continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you to will and to act according to his good purpose.

1 Tim 1:19
holding on to faith and a good conscience. Some have rejected these and so have shipwrecked their faith.

2 Peter 2:20-21
If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning. It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them.
 
Do you think a Protestant like me is more likely to end up in Purgatory than heaven
I think that idea is neither taught or believed by Catholics.

We [or at least in my experiences of living in three parishes] is that we are taught ‘not to judge others’, therefore the quote is pretty meaningless.

A very good friend of mine hates catholicism with a vengeance but he is a good Anglican minister. He is no doubt closer to God than I 🙂
 
Hmmm, Linkowski, perhaps you omitted this:
James 2 verses…

Phil 2:12-13
Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed—not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence—continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you to will and to act according to his good purpose.

1 Tim 1:19
holding on to faith and a good conscience. Some have rejected these and so have shipwrecked their faith.

2 Peter 2:20-21
If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning. It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them.
James Chapter 2 is simply showing that true saving faith in Christ manifests itself in works of love. It is all about those who say they have faith but show that they have dead faith. This stops the mouth of the one who claims Christ but shows a lifestyle that is not compatible. This is shown in the positive aspect in John 1 which shows the evidences of one who has been born again…

1Jo 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

This means that the person hates sin and seeks to flee from sin and cannot mean that they never sin. See 1 John 1:8-10.

1Jo 4:7 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God. {is born: Gr. has been born}
1Jo 5:1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him. {is born: Gr. has been born}
1Jo 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
1Jo 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

Philippians 2:12 is not referring to salvation by works at all but is having to do with our sanctification…

The Gr. verb rendered “work out” means “to continually work to bring something to fulfillment or completion.” It cannot refer to salvation by works (Rom. 3:21–24; Eph. 2:8, 9), but it does refer to the believer’s responsibility for active pursuit of obedience in the process of sanctification. Fear and trembling is the attitude with which Christians are to pursue their sanctification. It involves a healthy fear of offending God and a righteous awe and respect for Him (Prov. 1:7; 9:10; Is. 66:1, 2).

Those that are born of God will persever as the Bible clearly says…

Hebrews 3:14 NAS95 14 For **we have become **partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our assurance firm until the end,

Perseverance is an evidence of salvation as well - also, in 1 John 5:4, the Bible says that the one who has been born of God overcomes the world…2 Peter 2:20-22 was someone who was not saved to begin with…they simply had a knowledge of Christ but did not manifest true saving faith…

1 John 2:19 NAS95 19 They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, so that it would be shown that they all are not of us.

Remember - those that are born of God are the elect and the elect have been predestined to justification and complete salvation…

Romans 8:30 NAS95 30 and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.

The elect were not chosen on the basis of their works nor were they chosen on the basis of their own choice but on God’s choice…

1 Peter 1:2 NAS95 2 according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled with His blood: May grace and peace be yours in the fullest measure.

Romans 9:10-11 NAS95 10 And not only this, but there was Rebekah also, when she had conceived twins by one man, our father Isaac; 11 for though the twins were not yet born and had not done anything good or bad, so that God’s purpose according to His choice would stand, not because of works but because of Him who calls,

If one is born of God and is one of the elect, they cannot lose their salvation…and they will manifest the characteristics of the elect.

John 14:12 NAS95 12 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do, he will do also; and greater works than these he will do; because I go to the Father.
 
Would you say that leaving the Roman Catholic church is the same as leaving Jesus?
No. Jesus is not religion. Man established religion. Jesus is God and much more than a religious denomination. :yup:
Man can survive without religion. Man can not survive without God. 👍
 
What do you say for me?

I have been justified by faith after being foreknown, predestined, and then called…I will one day, as scripture promises, be glorified…

Romans 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

What about one like me who was written in the Lamb’s book of Life and have been given promises like…

John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

And assurances like…

Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Romans 8:33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God’s elect? It is God that justifieth.

One who has been washed…

1Corinthians 6:11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

and am clean every whit…

John 13:8 Peter saith unto him, Thou shalt never wash my feet. Jesus answered him, If I wash thee not, thou hast no part with me.
9 Simon Peter saith unto him, Lord, not my feet only, but also my hands and my head.
10 Jesus saith to him, He that is washed needeth not save to wash his feet, but is clean every whit: and ye are clean, but not all.

One of the elect…

1Peter 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

Mt 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

One of those who have been perfected, forever…

Heb 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

One who is dead to the law…bondage to it and its penalty…

Ro 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

One who has been sealed with the Holy Spirit at the hearing of faith…

Ac 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

Galatians 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

One who has been changed…

2Co 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

One who believes…

1Jo 5:13 **These things **have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

And manifests in my life - “these things” from the scripture reference above…

Love, practicing of righteousness, hating of sin, observing of commandments, loving of the brethren, witness of the Holy Spirit - all showing that I have been born of God - and am one of the elect.

All by the grace of God…

For one written in the Lamb’s Book of Life…what to you say for me.

I am particularly curious about the phrase about what we are “aiming for” in the quoted response. I aimed for the cross of Christ…and this was the sacrifice that has perfected me and taken away my penalty of death…

Col 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

CL
:whacky:
 
No. Jesus is not religion. Man established religion. Jesus is God and much more than a religious denomination. :yup:
Man can survive without religion. Man can not survive without God. 👍
No, God established religion. He is the one who told us how to live etc. He is the one who founded the Church. It is certainly God and not man.
 
No, God established religion. He is the one who told us how to live etc. He is the one who founded the Church. It is certainly God and not man.
There are many religions in the world and in past history, but only 1 God. You saying God started all of them, or just a few, or one? I think you’ll agree Man had his hand in the vast majority of “religions”, not God.
 
Hi,
Im with mrs a and Mike on this one. What comes to mind when someone mentions religion. With me, I think of Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Hindu, Buddhist, Mormon, JW.etc.

We know that God only started Judaism and Christianity. I would say that men started all of the others. Im sure you would agree.👍
 
No, God established religion. He is the one who told us how to live etc. He is the one who founded the Church. It is certainly God and not man.
So when does church mean religion? Jesus said to Peter “upon this rock, I will build my church”. There was no mention of religion. That, my friend, is a man-made concept. 😉
 
Would you say that leaving the Roman Catholic church is the same as leaving Jesus?
Since the Catholic Church is the Mystical Body of Christ, yes leaving the Catholic Church is the same as leaving Jesus. Especially since the Catholics know all the teachings of the church but rejects it. It comes to these simple word, “He who hears you, hears me. He who rejects you, rejects me.”

So therefore for a Catholic to reject the Church is rejecting Jesus Christ.

Any Catholic who leaves the Catholic Church for a Protestant one is rejecting Jesus.
 
Any Catholic who leaves the Catholic Church for a Protestant one is rejecting Jesus.
So you believe that all Catholics who now go to non-Catholic churches are Hellbound?

It is really good to clarify these issues for the lurkers.
 
No. Jesus is not religion. Man established religion. Jesus is God and much more than a religious denomination. :yup:
Man can survive without religion. Man can not survive without God. 👍
Nice piece of wisdom. Thank you.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top