SPLIT: What did Christ teach that wasn't written,and if it wasn't written how can you be sure He taught it?

[n2thelight]

Question

What did Christ teach that was’nt written,and if it was’nt written how can you be sure He taught it

Christ always asked this question,have ye not read

Matthew 12:3
But he said unto them, Have ye not read what David did, when he was an hungred, and they that were with him;

Matthew 12:5
Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless?

Matthew 19:4
And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,

Matthew 22:31
But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying,

Mark 12:10
And have ye not read this scripture; The stone which the builders rejected is become the head of the corner:

Mark 12:26
And as touching the dead, that they rise: have ye not read in the book of Moses, how in the bush God spake unto him, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob?

Luke 6:3
And Jesus answering them said, Have ye not read so much as this, what David did, when himself was an hungred, and they which were with him;

And that which He taught, is written

Anything else is a tradition of man

 

[thistle]

Hi all.

OK I was discussing some issues with a Protestant friend of mine and naturally the subject came upon Catholic Church doctrine and the Catechism. I said that it can’t go wrong because the Holy Spirit has protected the Church from corrupt doctrine.

He then asked, then why not just stick the Catechism into the bible then if it’s held so highly?

I said you can’t do that coz after all, in Revelations it is stated that you can’t add and subtract books however you like, and two, it’s supposed to be instruction whereas we read the bible for more wisdom and better understanding of a particular doctrine and as we do so, the Catechism may be developed over time with better understanding. And that they’re quite different in the sense that the Catechism is extremely definitive rather than inspired stories where hyperbole can make for very cloudy interpretation.

I keep thinking I may be wrong though. In which case, my bad, I’ll own up. Or if I’m not, can someone please help me out and give me a more rigourous answer.

God’s peace.

Actually the part where John says nothing should be added or taken away from this book he was referring to the Book of Revelations and not the Bible which didn’t exist when he wrote Revelations.

 

[Gamera]

Question

What did Christ teach that was’nt written,…

“But there are also many other things which Jesus did; were every one of them to be written, I suppose that the world itself could not contain the books that would be written,” John 21:25.

and if it was’nt written how can you be sure He taught it

“But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you,” John 14:26.

“…so shall my word be that goes forth from my mouth; it shall not return to me empty, but it shall accomplish that which I intend, and prosper in the thing for which I sent it,” Is. 55:11.

“The grass withers, the flower fades, but the word of our God will stand forever,” Is. 40:8.

Christ always asked this question,have ye not read

Oral tradition was used by Jesus himself: Jesus personally referred to the non-Scriptural Jewish oral tradition that Zechariah died between the altar and the sanctuary (Luke 11:51). Also, the author of the Letter to the Hebrews referred to the non-Scriptural Jewish oral tradition that the prophet Isaiah was sawed in half (Heb 11:37).

Jesus used Scripture often, but never once did Jesus instruct us to use ONLY Scripture.

And that which He taught, is written.

“But there are also many other things which Jesus did; were every one of them to be written, I suppose that the world itself could not contain the books that would be written,” John 21:25.

Anything else is a tradition of man

“And we also thank God constantly for this, that when you received the word of God which you heard from us, you accepted it not as the word of men but as what it really is, the word of God, which is at work in you believers,” 1 Thes 2:13.

 

[Michael_Francis]

This thread has been split off from *** *** The Bible and the Catechism where it was off topic and would have derailed the discussion.
Please carry on here.
MF

 

[multitude]

Question

What did Christ teach that was’nt written,and if it was’nt written how can you be sure He taught it

Jesus taught all that was written, yes.

Christ always asked this question,have ye not read

Matthew 12:3
But he said unto them, Have ye not read what David did, when he was an hungred, and they that were with him;

Matthew 12:5
Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless?

Matthew 19:4
And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,

Matthew 22:31
But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying,

Mark 12:10
And have ye not read this scripture; The stone which the builders rejected is become the head of the corner:

Mark 12:26
And as touching the dead, that they rise: have ye not read in the book of Moses, how in the bush God spake unto him, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob?

Luke 6:3
And Jesus answering them said, Have ye not read so much as this, what David did, when himself was an hungred, and they which were with him;

Uh huh, I’ve read.

And that which He taught, is written

Anything else is a tradition of man

2 Thess 2: 13-15
But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, coz God chose you from the beginning to be saved through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth. To this he called you through our gospel, so that you may obtain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter.

This tradition helps us understand better the letters that we have read.

God’s peace.

 

[n2thelight]

Gamera

Oral tradition was used by Jesus himself: Jesus personally referred to the non-Scriptural Jewish oral tradition that Zechariah died between the altar and the sanctuary (Luke 11:51). Also, the author of the Letter to the Hebrews referred to the non-Scriptural Jewish oral tradition that the prophet Isaiah was sawed in half (Heb 11:37).

Jesus used Scripture often, but never once did Jesus instruct us to use ONLY Scripture.

There is nothing wrong with tradition,but if it goes against the Word of God as many of the Catholic traditions do,then its simply not right.

 

[mercygate]

There is nothing wrong with tradition,but if it goes against the Word of God as many of the Catholic traditions do,then its simply not right.

No Catholic tradition goes “against” the Scriptures. To make such a claim is to fail to understand both Scripture and Tradition.

 

[Tom]

There is nothing wrong with tradition,but if it goes against the Word of God as many of the Catholic traditions do,then its simply not right.

What Tradition “goes against”, not that you may not find, but goes against Scripture? Specifically which one?

 

[sebestt]

n2thelight:

Did you come into here just to state your opinions or did you come in here with an open mind to have a discussion? I hope you are here for a discussion and not just to state your opinion based on what you were taught by your church or others and then leaving the discussion when asked to discuss in depth your beliefs. May God bless you in your sincere pursuit of truth. We do not judge you so be careful not to judge others.

 

[Zenas]

There is nothing wrong with tradition,but if it goes against the Word of God as many of the Catholic traditions do,then its simply not right.

By “Word of God”, I assume you mean the Bible. Not all Catholic Traditions are expressly stated in the Bible. Most of them are, and nearly all of them are at least implied in the Bible. I would challenge you, n2thelight, to name even one Catholic Tradition that “goes against” the Bible.

 

[Church_Militant]

There is nothing wrong with tradition,but if it goes against the Word of God as many of the Catholic traditions do

,then its simply not right.I have yet to see any such.

Which one did you have in mind?

 

[n2thelight]

mercygate

Quote:
Originally Posted by n2thelight
There is nothing wrong with tradition,but if it goes against the Word of God as many of the Catholic traditions do,then its simply not right.

No Catholic tradition goes “against” the Scriptures. To make such a claim is to fail to understand both Scripture and Tradition.

Church Militant

have yet to see any such.

Which one did you have in mind?

Lets start with two

Praying to Mary and the Saints and purgatory

sebestt

n2thelight:

Did you come into here just to state your opinions or did you come in here with an open mind to have a discussion? I hope you are here for a discussion and not just to state your opinion based on what you were taught by your church or others and then leaving the discussion when asked to discuss in depth your beliefs. May God bless you in your sincere pursuit of truth. We do not judge you so be careful not to judge others.

I base all that I say from the Word,and one of them is judge not least ye be judged,so no I did not come here to judge

Zenas

By “Word of God”, I assume you mean the Bible. Not all Catholic Traditions are expressly stated in the Bible. Most of them are, and nearly all of them are at least implied in the Bible. I would challenge you, n2thelight, to name even one Catholic Tradition that “goes against” the Bible.

Challenge accepted,start with the two above

 

[mercygate]

Lets start with two

Praying to Mary and the Saints and purgatory

I base all that I say from the Word,and one of them is judge not least ye be judged,so no I did not come here to judge

Challenge accepted,start with the two above

OK. HOW do “the two above” (Prayer to saints and purgatory) go “against” the Bible?

 

[n2thelight]

mercygate

Quote:
Originally Posted by n2thelight
Lets start with two

Praying to Mary and the Saints and purgatory

I base all that I say from the Word,and one of them is judge not least ye be judged,so no I did not come here to judge
Challenge accepted,start with the two above

OK. HOW do “the two above” (Prayer to saints and purgatory) go “against” the Bible?

Simple,neither is scriptual

 

[mercygate]

Simple,neither is scriptual

Why do you say that? Perhaps you missed something?

Start here for Purgatory.

And here for praying to Saints.

 

[thistle]

Simple,neither is scriptual

They are scriptural. Read these:

scripturecatholic.com/saints.html
scripturecatholic.com/purgatory_qa.html
catholic.com/thisrock/2005/0511sbs.asp
catholic.com/library/purgatory.asp
catholic.com/library/Praying_to_the_Saints.asp
catholic.com/library/intercession_of_the_saints.asp
catholic.com/library/praying_to_the_saints.asp

 

[mercygate]

Simple,neither is scriptual

Even if intercession of the saints and purgatory were not explicitly found in Scripture, that would not make them “unscriptural.”

 

[Newbie2]

No Catholic tradition goes “against” the Scriptures. To make such a claim is to fail to understand both Scripture and Tradition.

What Tradition “goes against”, not that you may not find, but goes against Scripture? Specifically which one?

Even if intercession of the saints and purgatory were not explicitly found in Scripture, that would not make them “unscriptural.”

Dittos.

 

[n2thelight]

mercygate

Quote:
Originally Posted by n2thelight
Simple,neither is scriptual

Even if intercession of the saints and purgatory were not explicitly found in Scripture, that would not make them “unscriptural.”

And do tell why not

Or are you saying that the Catholic Church decides whats scripture and what is not,and that it can be and not be at the same time?

 

[Pixie_Dust]

Praying to Mary and the Saints

Just to clarify, when a Catholic says they “pray to” Mary or a Saint, that is Catholic shorthand for “asking Mary/St. Whoever to pray for …” The original definition of “pray” is simply “ask” and does not mean worship, ever.
Saints and Intercessory Prayers in Scripture.

and purgatory

Purgatory in Scripture.